carbuff
Well-Known Member
Just fyi -- I've been going through this entire thread trying to develop a list of who's been proposed and eliminated. It's taking a while, though.
Match! NY - Caledonia, WhtFem 1UFNY, 13-19, Turquoise Necklace, Nov'79 *Tammy Alexander*
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carbuff
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I'm giving up on this list. I'm just duplicating the contents of Doenet and Namus.
Essentially every female of the right age in all the public missing persons listings has been compared to Cali and not matched.
LE has said this a couple of times, and they appear to be exactly right.
At this point the only people worth submitting would be ones we locate outside of the missing persons websites, or from overseas, or who hasn't been listed in the websites before.
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I've come to that conclusion some time ago, not just with regard to Cali, but also the other high-profile UID's (e.g., Buckskin Girl, Walker County JD, Smurfette, Arroyo Grande, "Lori Ruff", Grateful Dead "Jason", etc., etc., etc.)
Roselvr
Ask me how to get your loved one in NamUs
I passed Jason on last night to my son's friends that are Dead heads... They've never heard of him. The one friends father may have been around back then; he's an old time hippie; about my age. They all go to retreats & blow glass.
It was a different time back then; potheads; people following the Grateful Dead; hitching all over. Cops also didn't take reports like they do now
carbuff
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And communication wasn't as easy. You had to make an effort to find a phone, and have enough change on you to pay for the long distance charges. If the person you wanted to talk to wasn't home, for most people there wasn't a way to leave a message or even for the other person to know you tried to call.
People didn't carry ID routinely. If you weren't going to be driving a car, you might not even carry your driver's license. Credit cards were not that common. Jason Doe having nothing on him but a note and some cash is not that unusual.
It was also much more common for people to leave home at younger ages. Work rules and ID requirements weren't as strict, so if you wanted to run away and get a job pumping gas or waiting tables in another town, you could probably get away by saying you were 16 and probably nobody would check on you.
And there were throwaways, too -- kids whose parents couldn't stand their lifestyle and politics and said, "I never want to see you again." Lots of gay boys wound up on the streets that way. Girls too.
Everybody was on the move. The average US family moved every two or three years, usually for a better job. It was common in suburban communities to not know your neighbors. If suddenly somebody wasn't there, you wouldn't figure they got murdered, you'd figure they got a promotion in another state.
I'm oversimplifying, of course. But it was a different world.
People didn't carry ID routinely. If you weren't going to be driving a car, you might not even carry your driver's license. Credit cards were not that common. Jason Doe having nothing on him but a note and some cash is not that unusual.
It was also much more common for people to leave home at younger ages. Work rules and ID requirements weren't as strict, so if you wanted to run away and get a job pumping gas or waiting tables in another town, you could probably get away by saying you were 16 and probably nobody would check on you.
And there were throwaways, too -- kids whose parents couldn't stand their lifestyle and politics and said, "I never want to see you again." Lots of gay boys wound up on the streets that way. Girls too.
Everybody was on the move. The average US family moved every two or three years, usually for a better job. It was common in suburban communities to not know your neighbors. If suddenly somebody wasn't there, you wouldn't figure they got murdered, you'd figure they got a promotion in another state.
I'm oversimplifying, of course. But it was a different world.
Don't forget all the people who WERE reported, but their reports were never digitized, and their families haven't or can't take up their cause on the internet. I am sure there are more than a few warehouses out there filled with rotting boxes of files and no money to enter them.
Many files have also been lost forever: fires, floods, rats or whatever.
Some of the older cases- like those around 1970- if they went missing as a teen, there is a good chance their parents are gone and weren't able to bring the case forward.
Many files have also been lost forever: fires, floods, rats or whatever.
Some of the older cases- like those around 1970- if they went missing as a teen, there is a good chance their parents are gone and weren't able to bring the case forward.
carbuff
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Or who can't afford to pursue it. In some cases siblings or cousins have picked up the case, but for how many more is there no one left?
And yes, yes, yes to the rotting boxes. We know that's the case in Cleveland and LA. LE has to go on with current cases. If they kept all their records in the police station, the police would have to move out to make room for the files. So they get put in storage. Even current records can be wiped out -- Entire courthouses with all their records were lost in Hurricanes Irene and Sandy and I'm sure the same thing happened in Katrina and the big Mississippi floods.
Another thing that happened in the 70's was that if a minor was reported missing and was thought to be a runaway, their record would probably be purged when the person turned 18. In some states that were especially careful to guard juvenile records, that meant destroying the records. In others they just aged out.
Some police departments age out the missing persons reports for everybody. And I discovered recently that in many police departments, you can't file a missing persons report for somebody who is considered a fugitive from justice.
Nameless Helper
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So where does this leave us?
It seems that she could have been on the road for awhile (lack of dental care) and disenfranchised from her family (no one looking for her).
It seems that she could have been on the road for awhile (lack of dental care) and disenfranchised from her family (no one looking for her).
Roselvr
Ask me how to get your loved one in NamUs
You would think we'd know something by now since Snuf turned one in 2 weeks after Grace gave DNA. They had to get DNA from a distant relative
You'd think Cali was a higher priority
Match! New York City, WhtMale UP5594, 30-50, Hit by train, Jan'06 *Gregory DeVita*
Touched base with sister...
..
You'd think Cali was a higher priority
Match! New York City, WhtMale UP5594, 30-50, Hit by train, Jan'06 *Gregory DeVita*
Touched base with sister...
..
Sorry if I seem ill informed but, hypothetically lets say Cali was traveling and picked up clothing from a thrift store or shelter, could it still be possible that the fibers remained on the clothing without her even being there?
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It could be, but she would have picked a jacket and pants that came from the same previous owner. It would be a bit coincidental.
And then you also have the isotope testing that puts her in the same place.
And then you also have the isotope testing that puts her in the same place.
Ahh I see, that would definitely make sense.
upstatelaura
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Does anyone know about the dna testing that people are mainly doing for geneology? A couple of different companies offer it now for around a $100. They basically send you a box, you spit in the box and send it back. You get access to their website which will tell you what % of different origins you are. Also, your dna is put in a data base with others who have used this service. So if there are any, even remote matches (like 5th and 6th cousins) it will show up on a map of where they're located and possibly who they are, I think. So you can find family you didn't even know you had. Maybe as this gains in popularity, eventually in the future a relative may turn up, if not already.
I wonder if it has to be saliva used though? And if so, are there any usable samples the police could do this with? Even if they found a distant relative that has the same dna, they could probably trace the family tree back some how, and find out who she is.
I wonder if it has to be saliva used though? And if so, are there any usable samples the police could do this with? Even if they found a distant relative that has the same dna, they could probably trace the family tree back some how, and find out who she is.
upstatelaura
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ancestry.com seems like it has a pretty popular dna service available the sight says swab the inside of your mouth(not spit)
upstatelaura
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I wonder if a very old sample could still be usable in a case like this
Just a couple of concerns:
1) two of the four pictures on the Doe network show blue eyes, not brown.
2) Isotope testing and pollen testing states areas such as: California, New Mexico and Arizona, yet on the DOE network they stated the police likely thought she was from Canada given the area she was found.
"Locale of Region Caledonia, NY is located in the Finger Lakes region of the state and is close in proximity to the Canadian border. Some theories about the victim's identity include the possibility that she was not American, but Canadian. Searches of the Canadian missing persons' databases have not provided any information on a possible ID match for this victim- Doe Network.
But then the next paragraph says "She had tan lines, suggesting that she had recently lain in the sun in a halter top. Tanning salons were not common in 1979, it is believed that she had recently vacationed somewhere tropical or was from a region more conducive to tanning in November".
Now indicating that she was from somewhere tropical, leading to more confusion. I can personally say as a half Native and half french women when I tan in the sun my tan lines last til January and beyond. For example" Last summer In the end of August, I was in the lake up north and was not severely burnt but close enough wearing a off shoulder top. I can still see the outline of the tan clearly which has been there since August 2012 (now July 2013) and it refuses to go . I don't think it's impossible to still have a "fresh" tan in November if it was Acquired in August or September from somewhere in the general area. Then again Isotope testing stated the states (New mexico, California and areas) So why did they suggest Canada?
As I was looking at Canada Missing children I came across a little girl who went missing when she was Camping: Diane Prevost (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1889dfon.html)
In the website her parents made, they suggested that she was afraid of water and had headed to the trailer. They had gone to this spot almost every weekend so the area was known to them and they knew the frequent visitors and they waited an hour before calling the police.
It states on the website " Bernard (Father) wanted the police to call the USA and Canadian borders to advise them of his missing daughter but the police said they would find her in the park. The park was officially closed but people could still camp. The Ministry of Natural Resources (MNR) would come by at night to collect the camping fees. The gates to the park were left open. The police started looking, but to no avail. Night fall arrived and Bernard told the police to close the gate of the park so that no cars could go in or out of the park during the night. The police would not agree. They didn´t want to close the gates
To me it feels like he knew she was taken, any parent would have searched high and low but he didn't want them to search the forest, he wanted to search outside.
Anyways, Is it possible someone abducted Cali as a child or baby and that is why there is no updated photo? Could that be the reason she was never given proper medical care, because they couldn't? This is what I asked myself when I was searching and found Diane Prevost.
Some Facts:
-Diane went missing in 1966 (No remains found)
-Diane would have been 15 in 1979
-Diane had Brown hair and brown eyes
-Diane had a burn mark on her knee where a iron had touched it
-The unidentified had a burn mark in the inner thigh (Read once it was the lower thigh), and a scar on the left and right knee
-Diane had stitches on her foot
-Unidentified had scar on right foot.
I could be so wrong, but I mean it's better then not looking. Sorry if I wasted all your time with my extravagant theory.
1) two of the four pictures on the Doe network show blue eyes, not brown.
2) Isotope testing and pollen testing states areas such as: California, New Mexico and Arizona, yet on the DOE network they stated the police likely thought she was from Canada given the area she was found.
"Locale of Region Caledonia, NY is located in the Finger Lakes region of the state and is close in proximity to the Canadian border. Some theories about the victim's identity include the possibility that she was not American, but Canadian. Searches of the Canadian missing persons' databases have not provided any information on a possible ID match for this victim- Doe Network.
But then the next paragraph says "She had tan lines, suggesting that she had recently lain in the sun in a halter top. Tanning salons were not common in 1979, it is believed that she had recently vacationed somewhere tropical or was from a region more conducive to tanning in November".
Now indicating that she was from somewhere tropical, leading to more confusion. I can personally say as a half Native and half french women when I tan in the sun my tan lines last til January and beyond. For example" Last summer In the end of August, I was in the lake up north and was not severely burnt but close enough wearing a off shoulder top. I can still see the outline of the tan clearly which has been there since August 2012 (now July 2013) and it refuses to go . I don't think it's impossible to still have a "fresh" tan in November if it was Acquired in August or September from somewhere in the general area. Then again Isotope testing stated the states (New mexico, California and areas) So why did they suggest Canada?
As I was looking at Canada Missing children I came across a little girl who went missing when she was Camping: Diane Prevost (http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1889dfon.html)
In the website her parents made, they suggested that she was afraid of water and had headed to the trailer. They had gone to this spot almost every weekend so the area was known to them and they knew the frequent visitors and they waited an hour before calling the police.
It states on the website " Bernard (Father) wanted the police to call the USA and Canadian borders to advise them of his missing daughter but the police said they would find her in the park. The park was officially closed but people could still camp. The Ministry of Natural Resources (MNR) would come by at night to collect the camping fees. The gates to the park were left open. The police started looking, but to no avail. Night fall arrived and Bernard told the police to close the gate of the park so that no cars could go in or out of the park during the night. The police would not agree. They didn´t want to close the gates
To me it feels like he knew she was taken, any parent would have searched high and low but he didn't want them to search the forest, he wanted to search outside.
Anyways, Is it possible someone abducted Cali as a child or baby and that is why there is no updated photo? Could that be the reason she was never given proper medical care, because they couldn't? This is what I asked myself when I was searching and found Diane Prevost.
Some Facts:
-Diane went missing in 1966 (No remains found)
-Diane would have been 15 in 1979
-Diane had Brown hair and brown eyes
-Diane had a burn mark on her knee where a iron had touched it
-The unidentified had a burn mark in the inner thigh (Read once it was the lower thigh), and a scar on the left and right knee
-Diane had stitches on her foot
-Unidentified had scar on right foot.
I could be so wrong, but I mean it's better then not looking. Sorry if I wasted all your time with my extravagant theory.
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carbuff
Well-Known Member
The scars match up. Facial resemblance. Plausible scenario.
Roselvr
Ask me how to get your loved one in NamUs
Family site with more photos.
I read the family site; according to what her dad said; it sounds like he knew someone came in & took her.
Her dad's story -
The best place for ancestry testing is 23andme. I've suggested it for a few cases.
The reason is that right now; it's the cheapest. I heard they got a grant that allows them to offer so much for $99. A lot of people do it for the health aspect; not sure they realize that they get thrown into an ancestry database too.
23 and me has a goal to have the largest database within the next few years. IIRC; they're shooting for a million.
23 and me features-
Reports on 240+ health conditions and traits
Testing for 40+ inherited conditions
Discover your ancestry composition
Updates on your DNA as science advances
Most Comprehensive DNA Ancestry Service in the World - Over 200,000 genotyped members - maternal; paternal; deep roots
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