GUILTY NY - DM, 6, & FM, 12, Huevelton, 13 August 2014 - #1

[blue22]

I agree, modesty blaise. Something happened during their captivity...was it something spiritual, even, that convicted them during this crime? Did the girls start praying? (Remember the little boy who was kidnapped and started singing a favorite gospel song in the back seat until his captor stopped the car and told him to get out? )

Also...at first we were told they'd been dropped off at a home in Richville, and escaped. But the fact that there are only two crime scenes (their vegetable stand area and the home of the perps) rules out another home being in the picture. So I think the later version (that they were dropped off by their captors--the version at the press conference)--must be the accurate one.

We do not know there was only one crime scene, though. I don't think LE has mentioned (correct me if I"m wrong) the entire timeline of when they were gone. The stand, the house, their car are all crime scenes. We don't know if they stopped anywhere else, though.

 

[DeeMarie]

that they were dropped off makes sense to me I do believe these two could not completely go through with whatever evil they had planned and let them go.

They did go through with their plan- the girls were kidnapped and sexually assaulted by these two sick pedophiles.
Letting the girls go in no way reflects any 'remorse' on their end.
Maybe they wore disguises the whole time and thought the girls could never identify them (girls were drugged-etc)
Maybe they knew they would eventually be caught and dropping them off would lessen the charges?
The girls were dropped off and left go for the benefit of the perpetrators -- not for the girls.

 

[sophiebelle]

I'm sure there are lots of adults into whips and chains and whatever else they use, that are not pedophiles. These two just seem to do kinky things of all sorts. One thing that bothers me is, she took a restraining order after they were arrested? Well why is she afraid of him now? If she was truly bothered by anything, she had every opportunity to do that before HE wanted to kidnap and harm children. She's doing this because it will make her look like a victim, and maybe even her attorney thought of it. She's just as guilty in my book, and I don't want to hear her nonsense about being a slave. There are people who dress up and role play I guess, but the French maid costumes go in the closet when the game is over. Same with this other stuff. She's in the save my butt from jail mode.

 

[modesty blaise]

They did go through with their plan- the girls were kidnapped and sexually assaulted by these two sick pedophiles.
Letting the girls go in no way reflects any 'remorse' on their end.
Maybe they wore disguises the whole time and thought the girls could never identify them (girls were drugged-etc)
Maybe they knew they would eventually be caught and dropping them off would lessen the charges?
The girls were dropped off and left go for the benefit of the perpetrators -- not for the girls.

I understand but just to be clear I'm not offering any excuses for these two scumbags.
Just a possible explanation as to why these two young ladies made it back alive when so many kids don't.

 

[blue22]

I understand but just to be clear I'm not offering any excuses for these two scumbags.
Just a possible explanation as to why these two young ladies made it back alive when so many kids don't.

JMO, in all honesty...I really don't believe the perps thought the girls would lead LE to them. I don't murder was ever part of their goal.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

We do not know there was only one crime scene, though. I don't think LE has mentioned (correct me if I"m wrong) the entire timeline of when they were gone. The stand, the house, their car are all crime scenes. We don't know if they stopped anywhere else, though.

I was quoting what the Sheriff said on the Saturday press conference video in response to a question. He said there were "only two crime scenes--the vegetable stand, and the home of the suspects." So even though we don't know what all happened, we can know that (at least at this point).

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Yes, I know that. But to get in a car in a situation that was not previously rearranged for a specific purpose...to me does not seem likely. That is something they do not do. The sheriff said they used various coercion tactics. It's JMO, but I suspect that as they went along trying to get them in the car, the coercion was not so gentle.

One of the reporters asked the sheriff in the Saturday AM PC if it was true 'that they used dogs' to entice the little girls into the car. He answered the vague answer of 'various tactics of coercion' - so apparently that is a rumor, at least. The perp did have two dogs, as well as a cat (and bigger animals).

 

[blue22]

I was quoting what the Sheriff said on the Saturday press conference video in response to a question. He said there were "only two crime scenes--the vegetable stand, and the home of the suspects."

Thanks, I definitely missed that. (Well, the car is definitely a crime scene. So that would be 3, but I'm not nit-picky and he was just answering a question with little time or thought ti answer.) Since the girls don't speak english and live in an incredibly isolated community, I was thinking perhaps the process of extracting information about the entire time would be very slow and there could possibly be places they were at, and weren't aware of yet. He sounds pretty confident, I suppose. It makes more sense for them to stay at one location, since you can't be conspicuous as adults in normal clothing with two girls dressed in tradition Amish garments.

 

[blue22]

One of the reporters asked the sheriff in the Saturday AM PC if it was true 'that they used dogs' to entice the little girls into the car. He answered the vague answer of 'various tactics of coercion' - so apparently that is a rumor, at least. The perp did have to dogs, as well as a cat (and bigger animals).

I wouldn't be surprised at all if they used dogs or animals. I would be surprised if that is what got the girls in the car. Since the Amish incredibly limit and isolate their dealings with the outside community, it would be SO unusual for the children to get in a car with them that easily. I guess that's where the "various" tactics come into play.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

'To' should be 'two' dogs, lol. Someday I'll edit before clicking post. ;D

 

[human]

Yes and they allowed a medical exam as well where the results would be used in trial as I am sure was explained to them. This is definitely a case where cooperating with LE will prevent further abuse to other children so I wouldn't be surprised if the girls testified. It may take some reflection though and talking with the Bishop by LE

I do not know how this works because of the religious aspect and what people can do because of religious exemption.

The Amish are not a sovereign nation, so they are required to live by the laws of the USA.

The state and Feds? are bringing this forward as a criminals case.

Can they be forced to testify or face some kind of charges for not testfying?

 

[blue22]

I do not know how this works because of the religious aspect and what people can do because of religious exemption.

The Amish are not a sovereign nation, so they are required to live by the laws of the USA.

The state and Feds? are bringing this forward as a criminals case.

Can they be forced to testify or face some kind of charges for not testfying?

I don't see how there is any way they would attempt to bring charges against 6 and 12 year old children. If the children or their families do not want to testify, I do not see them attempting to force them. Not with little ones like this. I just can't fathom it.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Can they be forced to testify or face some kind of charges for not testfying?

I don't know if that happens in any state to any child that's been abducted and victimized. (So being Amish would have nothing to do with it; to my knowledge, they never force child victims to publicly testify.)

 

[Sleuthster]

I didn't think that they could have the same public defender. It would be a conflict of interest. The only way I could think of is if they where trying them together instead of separately but I would still think that they would each have separate counsel

 

[epiphany]

"I 100 percent expect more charges," Rain told The Associated Press in a telephone interview. She said the new charges, which she would not detail, could come after she meets with police investigators Monday or at the hearing Thursday. It's also possible prosecutors would have to wait for results from forensic tests.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/08/17/4077244/prosecutor-couple-sexually-abused.html#storylink=cpy

 

[epiphany]

Riendeau (NV's Attorney):

"You've heard of '50 Shades of Grey?'" he said Sunday. "This (referring to the relationship the pair had) was the 51st 'Shade of Grey.'"

and

He described her as a young woman in need of affection.

http://www.wwnytv.com/news/local/Re...re-In-Master-Slave-Relatonship-271580901.html

Perhaps, NV's been in touch with Kat McD and is hoping for a similarly sweet deal:

Sex 'slave' says she had to deliver 'Lizzi' Marriott into Mazzaglia's clutches

http://westborough.wickedlocal.com/article/20140604/NEWS/140608861/?Start=1

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I didn't think that they could have the same public defender. It would be a conflict of interest. The only way I could think of is if they where trying them together instead of separately but I would still think that they would each have separate counsel

Maybe it's different if they're tried in the same trial? (That was also a question at the PC; Rain said she didn't see why they wouldn't be tried together...though she also conceded that'd be up to defense.)

 

[blue22]

Maybe it's different if they're tried in the same trial? (That was also a question at the PC; she said she didn't see why they wouldn't be tried together...though she also conceded that'd be up to defense.)

How can you be tried with a person you have a restraining order against? Hmmm

:thinking:

 

[Abigail]

What's odd is that Bradford Riendeau was originally just the atty for NV (public defender)...and said what he said yesterday about his client NV pointing the finger at boyfriend SH as being abusive towards her in their relationship. Now that SH is jobless, apparently he, too, has been appointed the same public defender...so how does that public defender adequately defend him after comparatively maligning him the day earlier when just the female perp was his client? I noticed in this article today their atty now describes their relationship as "complicated" rather than going into the whole slave/master scenario:

I wonder if this is an error by NBC -- I doubt Bradford Riendeau is actually the attorney for both perps -- other articles are still only listing him as Vaisey's lawyer.
This article brings up her rape studies:
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index....pe_myth_acceptance_physiological_arousal.html
"Nicole Vaisey was a senior psychology major at Mercyhurst College in Erie, Pa. in 2011 when she published research about the effects of watching *advertiser censored* on attitudes toward rape.

Vaisey's hypothesis was that participants who saw sexually suggestive images would blame the victims more than those who had not."

..."The couple met online about a year and a half ago, according to a source familiar with their relationship."

..."Vaisey was president of the Mercyhurst chapter of Psi Chi at the time, as well as a member of the Mercyhurst Psychology Club and the Mercyhurst Active Minds chapter, the newspaper reported."

..."After college, a source familiar with Vaisey said she worked as a substitute teacher at a day care center, then she worked at L.E.A.P. (Living: Exploring All Possibilities) that serves developmentally disabled individuals in St. Lawrence County."
***************************************************************************************************

ETA: Yes, definitely an error on part of NBC. According to this article, Vaisey is being defended by Bradford Riendeau, and Howells by the St. Lawrence County Conflict Defender - http://www.whdh.com/story/26298955/more-charges-planned-against-amish-kidnap-suspects

Here is a list of the attorneys with the group representing Howells: http://www.co.st-lawrence.ny.us/Departments/ConflictDefender/

 

[epiphany]

Could be wrong, but I don't believe he's a Public Defender either.