GUILTY NY - DM, 6, & FM, 12, Huevelton, 13 August 2014 - #1

[bluenoser]

I'm wayy behind, but reading this gave me chills, and I have tears in my eyes!

ETA: Somehow, I didn't quote the post, but this is in reference to Carbuff (I think) saying that one of routes b/w 2 cities they lived in, goes right past Evansdale, where Lyric & Elizabeth were taken from.

 

[J1981]

So do we believe the "slave" claim or is that just a "he made me do it!" cry for forgiveness?

 

[blue22]

So do we believe the "slave" claim or is that just a "he made me do it!" cry for forgiveness?

I don't believe it, personally. I don't believe even if it's true, she is legally insane. We shall see, but I don't buy any of it.

 

[Abigail]

http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20140817/NEWS05/140818993

Mose (father): "“It’s sad,” “They must have ruined their whole life.”

Barbara (mother): "grateful to have her girls back home, but daily life has not yet returned to normal at the two-story white farmhouse they share with their 14 children" "“We feel relieved we have them. It’s still not like it was,”

(older sister, age 19) said her two sisters are not speaking much about their ordeal.
“(Talking about it) just makes it scarier for them,” she said.

 

[epiphany]

So do we believe the "slave" claim or is that just a "he made me do it!" cry for forgiveness?

About as much as I believe the Brooklyn Bridge is for sale.

Her attorney is doing his job already though, and I respect a good defense attorney.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I wonder if this is an error by NBC -- I doubt Bradford Riendeau is actually the attorney for both perps -- other articles are still only listing him as Vaisey's lawyer.
This article brings up her rape studies:
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index....pe_myth_acceptance_physiological_arousal.html
"Nicole Vaisey was a senior psychology major at Mercyhurst College in Erie, Pa. in 2011 when she published research about the effects of watching *advertiser censored* on attitudes toward rape.

Vaisey's hypothesis was that participants who saw sexually suggestive images would blame the victims more than those who had not."

..."The couple met online about a year and a half ago, according to a source familiar with their relationship."

..."Vaisey was president of the Mercyhurst chapter of Psi Chi at the time, as well as a member of the Mercyhurst Psychology Club and the Mercyhurst Active Minds chapter, the newspaper reported."

..."After college, a source familiar with Vaisey said she worked as a substitute teacher at a day care center, then she worked at L.E.A.P. (Living: Exploring All Possibilities) that serves developmentally disabled individuals in St. Lawrence County."
***************************************************************************************************

ETA: Yes, definitely an error on part of NBC. According to this article, Vaisey is being defended by Bradford Riendeau, and Howells by the St. Lawrence County Conflict Defender - http://www.whdh.com/story/26298955/more-charges-planned-against-amish-kidnap-suspects

Here is a list of the attorneys with the group representing Howells: http://www.co.st-lawrence.ny.us/Departments/ConflictDefender/

Thanks--but the weird thing is, Bradford Riendeau isn't on either list. Not sure how up to date that website is; does anyone know the difference between Conflict Defender and Public Defender? Seems both serve indigent clients...

CONFLICT DEFENDER ATTY LIST:

CONFLICT DEFENDER’S OFFC:

http://www.co.st-lawrence.ny.us/Departments/ConflictDefender/CDAttorney

St. Lawrence County Conflict Defender

Conflict Defender:
Amy L. Dona, Esq.

Assistant Conflict Defenders:
Heather A. Dona, Esq.
Sean R. McDermott, Esq.
Nicole A. Sabasowitz, Esq.



PUBLIC DEFENDER ATTY LIST:

PUBLIC DEFENDER’S OFFC:

http://www.co.st-lawrence.ny.us/Departments/PublicDefender/PDAttorney

Public Defender:
Stephen D. Button

Assistant Public Defenders:
Steven G. Ballan-Criminal Law
Robert H. Ballan-Family Law
Alison B. Appleby-Criminal Law
James Farrell-Family Law; Criminal Law
Mark Williams-Family Law; Criminal Law

 

[epiphany]

NV's defense attorney appears to me to be in private practice:

 

[gitana1]

Why? Do you think the same thing when a man does that sort of thing? Is it so hard to believe a woman could be sexually attracted to children on her own?

I know you didn't ask me, but yes. I believe most men who sexually abuse children were abused themselves. However, I do think there is a difference between men and women sex predators.

More and more I am falling on the side to make sexual abuse public. I am sick and tired of it being a stigma and the stigma is reinforced every time we hide it. It stops children and adults from disclosing, it makes people live under a shadow as far as others go when if we can make it be treated as a horrific thing done to the victim that doesn't need to be hidden as there is no shame in it, i think it would be better for victims. jmo

With utmost respect, it's not for you to decide. Children should be protected until they can make their own decisions and victims in general should be protected from public scrutiny. What happens in a person's life should be private unless they choose to disclose it. No one has the right to impose their beliefs about victimization and privacy on others, especially not on victims.

Lengthy new article..
initialed bm.

http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20140817/NEWS05/140819043

"HERMON — A neighbor of a Hermon couple charged with kidnapping two Amish children said he had an “eerie feeling” about his neighbors but never dreamed they were capable of allegedly kidnapping and victimizing two young girls.

Stephen M. Howells, II, 39, and Nicole F. Vaisey, 25, on Friday each were charged with two counts of first-degree kidnapping with the intent to inflict physical injury or sexually violate or sexually abuse F M, 12, and her sister, D, 6.

J M, who lives at 1406 County Route 21-A, about 100 yards from the couple’s house, said his daughter and his neighbor’s children only have to cross a small bridge to play at each other’s homes.

“I have an 8-year-old daughter who played with his children,” Mr. M said. “It’s gut-wrenching for us. She was crying. It’s hard to get her to understand what’s happening.”

Mr. M said although he was on friendly terms with his neighbors, he never felt “quite right” allowing his daughter to go next door for extended periods of time. Mr. M said he would let his daughter play for only 45 minutes at a time before checking to see that she was OK. “We want her to get outside, get fresh air and play with kids,” he said. “We would just be a little cautious. We would always have one eye on them when our daughter would go over there.”

He better talk to his daughter.

Then why do you think it for a woman?

IMO, sex predators in general have usually been abused. Probably more so in the case of women because their lack of testosterone makes them less prone to being predatory or aggressive in general.

ETA: I.e., I think it is rarer for women to be sex predators so when they are, it is more likely that they have themselves been abused or victimized in some manner in the past. Either that or serious personality disorder or something.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

At first when I read your post, Abigail, I thought Mose Miller was talking about his daughters--but he was talking about the perps:

In an interview with Johnson Newspapers from their Heuvelton home on Sunday, the girls’ father — Mose Miller, 44 — said he feels “sorry” for the suspects.

“It’s sad,” Mr. Miller said. “They must have ruined their whole life.”

The professor's comments were insightful:

In the Amish faith, forgiveness is a cornerstone that’s often difficult for non-Amish to comprehend.

“I think it’s the truest expression of their faith,” said Karen M. Johnson-Weiner, a SUNY Potsdam professor who is considered an expert on Amish culture. “It’s part of being Amish. Your goal is to try to live a life that follows Christ’s teachings and examples. Christ forgave those who hung him on the cross.”

http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20140817/NEWS05/140818993

 

[epiphany]

"Myths and Facts"
April 2014

The Office of Sex Offender Management (OSOM) and the Division of Criminal Justice Services (DCJS) are not endorsing any of the research cited below, nor taking sides on these issues. Instead, we are presenting a balanced summary of what we know (and do not know) concerning these issues.

Myth: Children who are sexually assaulted will grow up to sexually assault others.
Fact: A percentage of sex offenders were abused as children, although certainly not the majority

Becker and Murphy (1998) estimated that while 30 percent of sex offenders were sexually abused as children, 70 percent were not.

Hindman and Peters (2001) found that 67 percent of sex offenders initially reported experiencing sexual abuse as children, but when given a polygraph ("lie detector") test, the proportion dropped to 29 percent, suggesting that some sex offenders exaggerate early childhood victimization in an effort to rationalize their behavior or gain sympathy from others.


Myth: Only males commit sex offenses.
Fact: Although most offenders are male, females commit sex offenses too.

As of April 2014, about 2 percent (769) of the people required to register under New York's Sex Offender Registration Act (SORA) were female (data from the New York State Division of Criminal Justice Services, Sex Offender Registry).

http://www.criminaljustice.ny.gov/nsor/som_mythsandfacts.htm

 

[Abigail]

I'm not a local but I was trying to get a visual on the map and found something interesting.

The perps live at 1380 County Route 21, Hermon, NY 13652 (or did, until they decided to be perverts)

The girls were dropped off in the vicinity of 365 County Rd. 20, Richville NY

If you go to Howell's FB page you see his home is listed as a place of business, and can see who has visited there. There is a pic of someone there that has visited "Steve's Place" that *really* stood out to both hubby and me. He lives in the same area as where the girls knocked on the door after they were dropped off. This person has a pic of Howells on his FB holding a baby and the caption is "Uncle Steve" so it's not just some random FB friend. Could be nothing, could be something.

I definitely think you may be on to something with regard to "visitors" to "Steve's Place"

The guy who really stood out to me as a "visitor" to "Steve's Place" of business lives 3 miles from the Stinsons.

 

[pugglesworth]

So do we believe the "slave" claim or is that just a "he made me do it!" cry for forgiveness?

I totally believe they were up to their ears involved in that kind of activity and would not be surprised if we eventually find out they have a slew of other "contacts" from that "scene" to boot. But I don't think that she's a slave as in, someone held against her will who could not escape. Not at all.

 

[Abigail]

Thanks--but the weird thing is, Bradford Riendeau isn't on either list. Not sure how up to date that website is; does anyone know the difference between Conflict Defender and Public Defender? Seems both serve indigent clients...

I may be mistaken, but I think I recall that private attorneys are sometimes called on to serve as public defenders.

 

[SDHELPS]

Sorry if this was mentioned before but there will be a Preliminary Hearing on Thursday, August 21st @ 4:00 pm EST per the St. Lawrence County District Attorney. This was also on the presser @ about the 12 min 30 second point.

Trying to catch up but my time here is a little limited. :sigh:

http://watertown.twcnews.com/conten...napping--intended-to-do-physical-harm-/#video

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

Just listened to the video news conference (Saturday) again. Here's what DA Rain said in response to these two questions (paraphrased):

Q: How separate will the trials be of the two defendants?

A: I don't think they'll be separate; there'd be no reason to separate the trials that I can see, though that'd be up to defense.

Q: Will the two defendants have the same lawyer?

A: No. Two different lawyers have been assigned to them; and I think they'll have varying defenses so will keep their separate lawyers.


So...apparently NBC just goofed in their reporting.

 

[blue22]

I know you didn't ask me, but yes. I believe most men who sexually abuse children were abused themselves. However, I do think there is a difference between men and women sex predators.



With utmost respect, it's not for you to decide. Children should be protected until they can make their own decisions and victims in general should be protected from public scrutiny. What happens in a person'a life should be private unles they choose to disclose it. No one has the right to impose their beliefs about victimization and privacy on others, especially not on victims.



He better talk to his daughter.



IMO, sex predators in general have usually been abused. Probably more so in the case of women because their lack of testosterone makes them less prone to being predatory or aggressive in general.

Multiple studies have been done, and there is no reliable scientific data to show that children who are abused become abusers.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

A lawyer with the St. Lawrence County conflict defender’s office, Amy L. Dona, said that her office had represented Mr. Howells at his arraignment, but she declined to comment further.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/17/n...rod=nytcore-ipad&smid=nytcore-ipad-share&_r=0

 

[Sleuthster]

I may be mistaken, but I think I recall that private attorneys are sometimes called on to serve as public defenders.

Yes if the case meets certain criteria they are given a private attorney instead. I can't remember what that criteria was and it may differ per state.

 

[PLT]

I don't believe it, personally. I don't believe even if it's true, she is legally insane. We shall see, but I don't buy any of it.

I am with you - I don't believe it. I think her lawyer knows he has to start laying the groundwork for his case. He (and she) recognize that she has to cut anchor with the boyfriend and appear to the jury as another victim.

I won't be surprised if his lawyer says she manipulated him in some way. I will be interested in seeing what their ex's have to say and I'm sure they will be called into this.

And ....In a year and half - she became a "slave" ? - I don't buy it either. I was so hoping this was a bad prank by teenagers and this just gets worse every day.

 

[forthelost]

I don't know exactly. I'll try to think about it more---maybe because it seems more rare that women sexually abuse children and maybe because women have the biological connection and capability of carrying a child in their wombs...I don't know, let me think about it. :biggrin:

Mothers are also the most likely to murder a child. So a biological connection isn't that much.