Deceased/Not Found NY - Etan Patz, 6, New York, 25 May 1979 #1 *P. Hernandez guilty*

[DevilsPlayThing]

LE spent millions on this case - according to the Assistant U.S. Attorney in 1991. They utelized mediums {on one occasion brought them to an amazingly clean child's sweater hanging on a cross} dug trenches in remote locations. Traveled to Israel when a photo {taken by Etan's father} ended up in a magazine article. And investigating Ramos devastation of Rainbow Gatherings. Hypnotyzed the Mom - Plus so much more.

If ever it was brought to their attention that a basement had been resurfaced - and money was an issue. Well that does not sound right. Giuliani told those in charge whatever it takes.

This was written in 1991 - much of this is left out of what is now being reported. Vanity Fair article.

http://edwardklein.com/june_1991_VF_the_long_search_for_etan_patz2.pdf

 

[wfgodot]

I hope they've ditched the psychics this time around.

 

[RoseTree]

I hope they've ditched the psychics this time around.

Dot, check out your post number!

 

[wfgodot]

Dot, check out your post number!

Yes, noticed earlier I was in that vicinity. Since 11,111 occurred on this thread I'm hoping it brings luck to the case.

 

[crazyladi]

So I think that I read that they have the jack hammers out digging through the concrete. I really hope to God this lead is the one.

So unfair for the parents to have to live like this. Closure is so important.

 

[RoseTree]

So I think that I read that they have the jack hammers out digging through the concrete. I really hope to God this lead is the one.

So unfair for the parents to have to live like this. Closure is so important.

It must be a complete minefield of emotions to be a couple of blocks away.

 

[citylady]

Snipped and BBM

Appears that Food was the restaurant on the ground floor of the building in 1979.

Is this where Etan would have been able to purchase "soda" with his dollar?

You are correct that FOOD was the restaurant at the time, but knowing the kind hearts of the staff I would think a kid from the block would probably get free soda (if they even would have served soda, they were really healthy especially for that time period.)

It is more likely to me that he would have bought a soda from a newsstand - there was so little in the neighborhood then.

 

[wfgodot]

Newsday has a new one up, covering the bases, especially good on the Ramos-Miller tie-in. And this heartbreaking detail:

Etan's parents, Stan and Julie, were seen watching the scene outside from their balcony on Prince Street. They asked for privacy.

Othniel Miller, now 75, had used Jose Antonio Ramos as a helper for small jobs in a basement workshop at 127 Prince St. (....) said the law enforcement sources, who asked not to be identified.
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Ramos (....) worked for Miller in the months before Patz disappeared and had been in the workshop area several times
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One of the law enforcement sources said Miller gave Patz $1 to help him clean the basement wood shop area the night before the boy disappeared -- and said Miller made a "strange" statement during his most-recent interview with investigators that led them to suspect the boy's body may have been in the basement at some point.

I suspect the "strange" statement was, as has been reported, whether the cadaver dogs could hit on a scent if the body had been moved to another location.

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/crime/ex-handyman-focus-in-etan-patz-probe-1.3672637

 

[wfgodot]

But, on the other hand.....New York Daily News's newest has this:

Sources said their interest in Miller didn’t mean that Ramos was off the radar.

“No,” one source told the Daily News. “He’s still the guy.”

A pair of law enforcement sources said Friday there was no known connection between the two men, who were both regulars in the SoHo neighborhood where the Patz family still lives.

And also this, which I've read nowhere else and I'm assuming is either bad reporting, a bad source, faulty editing, or a typo; every other site I've read has said that Miller gave Etan the dollar:

On the night before Patz’s disappearance, Ramos — who “hired” the small boy as a helper — paid him a $1 salary

.
http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/investigators-tearing-basement-etan-patz-case-article-1.1064895

ETA
see below @ #355 for updated version

 

[fascination]

It seems that - every time I get ready to write a post expressing my impressions that Onthiel Miller would have been in a much better position than Jose Ramos to intercept Etan's path that morning (with emphasis on that morning) - an article gets posted emphasizing the supposed connection between Miller and Ramos. (I guess this was relatively easy to dismiss when only one source seemed to be reporting it.) I've basically felt the need to revise or scrap altogether two different posts, as new information gets posted.

This stated connection does more than just about anything I've seen/read over the past 24 hours (I knew virtually nil about this case before yesterday - I was finishing up kindergarten in Georgia at the time of Etan's disappearance) to feasibly put Ramos in the direct path of Etan during the narrow window he apparently had to commit such a "near perfect" crime.

I wonder what Miller's behavior around the Patzes was after Etan's disappearance? If Miller had any involvement in this - it would have taken remarkable detachment and calm (on the order of the kind that sociopaths have) to behave in exactly the same manner around the Patzes.

As a side note: I'm amazed at the difference between current images of SoHo and the images I've seen of SoHo around the time of Etan's disappearance. Today's SoHo looks trendy, upbeat, bustling, sunny (at least when the sun is out)....a place where you wouldn't necessarily mind being on the sidewalk after sundown. From what I've seen of Etan's SoHo - it looks relatively desolate and lifeless, far grittier, dirtier (I can literally see the trash on the streets in some pics), perpetually overcast....and I can see/feel the abandoned industrial roots. I imagine that if I were caught in the middle of 1970's SoHo - especially at night - I would be spooked-out to the nines. But maybe my perspective is that of a "soft" native Georgian, lol.

 

[wfgodot]

FBI: Search For Etan Patz Will Expand To Additional Locations (ktla.com)

---
The FBI tells PIX 11 they are not only working the investigation at the search site, but they also have field agents working in other areas around the city, "This is one lead of many that we and the NYPD are pursuing. Agents and detectives are actively pursuing other leads and other pieces of the investigation elsewhere."
---

more at link above

Hmmm.......

 

[citylady]

If ever it was brought to their attention that a basement had been resurfaced - and money was an issue. Well that does not sound right. Giuliani told those in charge whatever it takes.

This was written in 1991 - much of this is left out of what is now being reported. Vanity Fair article.

http://edwardklein.com/june_1991_VF_the_long_search_for_etan_patz2.pdf

What would Giuliani have had to do with this - he was in DC for the first 3-4 years of the investigation and wasn't even a NY prosecutor till 1983 IIRC ?

 

[wfgodot]

AND NOW the Daily News has come to its senses and edited the story referred to above @ #351 to read:

On the night before Patz’s disappearance, Miller — who “hired” the small boy as a helper — paid him a $1 salary.

and, furthermore....

A pair of law enforcement sources said Friday it was unclear if there was a connection between the two men, who were both regulars in the SoHo neighborhood where the Patz family still lives.

I'm unemployed; they need to hire me to edit their online stuff before they post it. Jeesh.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...ase-article-1.1064895?localLinksEnabled=false

They're still standing strong with their source's contention that Ramos is "still the guy" though. Ah well - I've got a minor in journalism and one thing about reporting real-time stuff from a variety of sources, especially unnamed ones, speaking off the record, is, it ain't easy.

 

[DevilsPlayThing]

FBI: Search For Etan Patz Will Expand To Additional Locations (ktla.com)

more at link above

Hmmm.......

Good grief. Not back to Israel I hope.

 

[karen7868]

Snipped

Beneath photo by Fred W. McDarrah:

The building where investigators were preparing to search for Etan Patz's remains on Thursday used to be a restaurant, pictured in 1972.

Snipped

“It was back in the ’70s, and there was nothing in SoHo, really,” Ms. Reichler said. “There was one little restaurant called Food. Otherwise, there was nothing there except artists and their families.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/20/n...gation-soho-recalls-the-old-neighborhood.html

Wonder where Etan would be able to purchase his soda with the dollar he had that morning?

ETA: Photo (1972) shows that the restaurant on the street level of the building is "Food." Was it there in 1979?

IIRC, FOOD was there until 1988. I have included a link that has a lot of information about SoHo at the time Etan disappeared. It is interesting and includes short video of SoHo in the 70s and pictures.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...wrSqBA&usg=AFQjCNF_QpkK6kTEo08JpVi62AgZwWCDVg

 

[karen7868]

That's an excellent question. Maybe he has some sort of neurological condition that has deteriorated his "brain to mouth filter" (as I like to call it... like Sophia on Golden Girls)

Or perhaps he's otherwise ill and getting his house in order before he meets his maker.

BBM. Death bed confession was my first thought; however, I have read several articles that was actually Julie Patz that told LE to talk to Miller. So, it looks like they went after him for questioning rather than him volunteering new information.

Mother's intuition - powerful thing, but I hope this is not a new DA just looking for publicity like someone has mentioned here. How ofter do DA's get re-elected?

I just hope they don't get the Patz's hopes up for nothing. They have been thru enough and with them not speaking to the media tells me LE may not find anything new.

 

[DevilsPlayThing]

What would Giuliani have had to do with this - he was in DC for the first 3-4 years of the investigation and wasn't even a NY prosecutor till 1983 IIRC ?

http://edwardklein.com/june_1991_VF_the_long_search_for_etan_patz2.pdf

The Vanity Fair article. It stated somewhere in there Giuliani wanted the Patz case solved. And told them whatever it takes.. or something close to it. Article was written in 1991 but covers since Etan went missing. The article explains the investigation. At one point the Assistant US Attorney explains to Etan's father that Ramos came into a large amount of money after Etan went missing. Etan's father says that is the one thing that makes him think Ramos is the guy. Also says Etan would be 18 years old {when the money is brought up} - and who knows what kind of boy he would be now ...

The AUSA explains {in horrifying detail} going to schools - telling kids about molesters. How they keep diaries of names and other details of kids. Then he talks about hoping to find such a diary of Ramos - with Etan's name in it. Then he talks about finding Ramos old school bus - that he traveled to Rainbow Meetings that they already busted him molestering kids at. They actually did an undercover thing at one point at the Rainbow Meetings. For some reason they never confiscated the bus - there is a pic of it sitting in the woods somewhere on a different site. Anyways the AUSA gets to the bus just in time for some guys to be parting it out and throwing all Ramos stuff into a fire. Stuff like toys that he uses to get kids in the bus. Then the guys find A DIARY and throws it in the fire. {Right in front of the Assistant US Attorney} if I read the article right. All the while he is concerned with getting a DNA test on a kid found traveling with Ramos - because the AUSA is convinced the boy is Etan. DNA did not match {of course} . Not sure why it did not occur to anyone that THE BUS just might have been a cesspool of DNA. Considering what Ramos was accused of doing in it.

This whole story makes no sense. The kids molestered did not come when subpoenaed {did not know you could subpoena 10, 8, and 12 year olds}. And if LE knows of a crime they can press charges even if a victim won't. The theories LE has tossed out there over the years have ranged from - Etan was going to run away with his sister - then the sister didn't show. To the father because he is a photographer. Then off to Israel - because of a photo of Etan was shown in Israel media OR because the Father of Etan's brother had just traveled there. Ramos and his sex on wheels bus. But no one confiscates the bus. A medium told them to go to an island. LE found a child's sweater hanging on a cross. Then turned over a rock - and written on it was Prince Street Kid. So LE dug trenches there and dragged the waters. This gets us up to the year 1991. It is now 2012 and they are digging within earshot of Etan's home. All this for 1 kid. That I want found with all of my heart and soul. If his Mom and Dad were allowed to act on their feelings - I bet they would have tore through that basement floor years ago. Probably with their bare hands. Then been arrested for interfering with a case that LE cannot solve. Sorry I am beyond frustrated. We can do better. I mean really.

 

[wfgodot]

Here's a new take on matters:

Rape shock led feds to dig for Etan (New York Post)

The FBI got a warrant to dig up a SoHo basement near Etan Patz’s home after a stunning claim by the new suspect’s ex-wife — that he raped his young niece a few years after the boy’s 1979 disappearance, The Post has learned.

The woman told authorities she divorced Othniel Miller — whose Prince Street wood shop was steps from the Patzes’ home — in the mid-1980s after learning of the attack in the 10-year-old girl’s New Jersey home, a source said.
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A second source said the wife told authorities — referring to the Patz case — that Miller has been involved in “a similar incident involving a relative.”
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[Othniel Miller's] defense lawyer, Michael Farkas, told The Post he was unaware of such a claim by the ex-wife.
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Farkas yesterday met with Miller for more than an hour at his Quincy Street home in Bed-Stuy.

The livery-cab driver who drove Farkas there told The Post, “On the way here from downtown Brooklyn, he told me [Miller] was the last person to see the boy alive.”
---

much more at link above

Post hitting its tabloid stride here.

 

[wfgodot]

This may have been posted up-thread - New York Magazine's 2009 30th anniversary story about the disappearance of Etan:

What Happened to Etan Patz

A good read, about five pages.

 

[LadyNorCal]

Had to be someone in the neighborhood...that goes without saying. I have not read everything on this thread...I will do so tonight, however I hope he's found soon.