Deceased/Not Found NY - Etan Patz, 6, New York, 25 May 1979 #1 *P. Hernandez guilty*

[Sleuthster]

They might be taking away part of the wall to test it with blood specific reagants.

That's what I think. From the story;
Investigators used chainsaws to dig out the portion of the wall with the stain, which will be sent to the FBI laboratory in Quantico, Virginia for analysis to determine whether the substance is blood and, if so, whose it is, the law enforcement source said.

So it could be part of the wall if there's no mention that they took this out of the basement prior.

 

[necco]

I'd strongly advise people not to get their hopes up over a luminol test. Luminol reacts with anything that has iron or copper in its make up, and the list of things found on the average basement wall which would cause a positive reaction is probably as long as my arm.

Hopefully, the operational reasons for suspending the search in the basement involve tests with more specific chemicals which can distinguish between blood and other substances. Hoping that this family can get the answers they deserve after such a long nightmare, and bring Etan home.

I didn't know the chemistry behind luminol. Wow. Yes, a workshop would certainly be filled with iron and copper. Heck, I'm an artist and work with both metals, my studio would probably look like a mass murder occurred if sprayed. Although, I suspect the pattern of the luminol hit would be indicative of what might have left it.

 

[LadyNorCal]

From that link, which is a CNN story by the way:

"Around 2 p.m. Sunday, investigators searching a basement in Manhattan's SoHo neighborhood abruptly folded up a tent they had erected to shield them from a nasty rainstorm.

Moments later, two large New York Police Department vans rolled in, obstructing most of the view of the scene. Through a small break between the vehicles, photographers were able to catch a glimpse of something being loaded into the side of an unmarked blue van."

This sounds suspect of evidence being collected. Vans could be for remains.

 

[Sleuthster]

http://www.wisn.com/news/national/A...ay/-/9373390/11474394/-/12lmfacz/-/index.html

Suspended until Monday

 

[Cappuccino]

I didn't know the chemistry behind luminol. Wow. Yes, a workshop would certainly be filled with iron and copper. Heck, I'm an artist and work with both metals, my studio would probably look like a mass murder occurred if sprayed. Although, I suspect the pattern of the luminol hit would be indicative of what might have left it.

The pattern might be indicative, but there's a surprising amount of things which can have iron or copper molecules in them. Urine, saliva, bleach, rust, potassium permanganate, paint, faeces, to name a few. Luminol is only sprayed around suspected crime scenes because its cheap, whereas the blood specific chemicals cost alot more to use. They would really need to carry out tests with those chemicals before they can conclude that the stain is blood.

 

[wfgodot]

A defense of Mr. Miller:

The stepson of the new suspect in the Etan Patz disappearance insisted Sunday that Othniel Miller would never hurt a child and said the ex-wife who claimed otherwise is “sick in the head.”

“You can't swear for anyone, but I don't think he's in any way, form, or fashion involved in this,” Miller's stepson, Jason Webley, told the Daily News.

“He's not like that. He loved children,” he said. “I grew up around the man and I never heard anything like that.”
---

more here: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...ild-article-1.1065738?localLinksEnabled=false

 

[i.b.nora]

The Wisn article is the same CNN / click2Houston article.

You know, its possible that everyone is just flat out exhausted and they decided to pack it in for the rest of the day. Not like a few hours off at this stage is going to make a big difference.

 

[wfgodot]

Heavy rainstorms being given as at least part of the "operational" reason.

 

[i.b.nora]

Maybe the basement was flooding. Like it used to do back in the late 70s.

 

[southerncat]

If Miller asked about the body being moved, do you think he may have had some idea that Ramos could have hurt/killed Etan in the basement? Also, it may have been posted and I missed it but has it ever been verified where Ramos came into money from?

This story breaks my heart and I hope so badly that they find him. Even that probably will not bring much peace to his parents. My children are very young and these stories now bring tears to my eyes.

 

[wfgodot]

If Miller asked about the body being moved, do you think he may have had some idea that Ramos could have hurt/killed Etan in the basement? Also, it may have been posted and I missed it but has it ever been verified where Ramos came into money from?

This story breaks my heart and I hope so badly that they find him. Even that probably will not bring much peace to his parents. My children are very young and these stories now bring tears to my eyes.

Certainly a possibility I've considered, that Ramos killed Etan in Miller's basement (and perhaps the latter participated in body disposal cover-up, for whatever reason). As for the money, if indeed Ramos came into $10,000, I don't think I've ever read (unless I've forgotten, entirely possible) how he got that money.

 

[Cancan]

We are supposed to get 3-4 inches of rain in the next few hours; that could be why.

 

[epiphany]

That's what I think. From the story;
Investigators used chainsaws to dig out the portion of the wall with the stain, which will be sent to the FBI laboratory in Quantico, Virginia for analysis to determine whether the substance is blood and, if so, whose it is, the law enforcement source said.

So it could be part of the wall if there's no mention that they took this out of the basement prior.

Respectfully BBM

I believe the wall with the possible stain of interest was removed yesterday as reported by several MSM sources:

Sunday's developments came a day after investigators discovered a possible blood stain on a concrete wall while tearing apart the basement in their search for clues in the case, a law enforcement source told CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/22/justice/new-york-patz-probe/?hpt=hp_t2

 

[wfgodot]

After four days of searching, no human remains have been recovered from the basement of a SoHo building ripped apart by investigators in their search for Etan Patz, according to law enforcement sources.

The sources say forensic experts found some additional material, which is being taken to a FBI laboratory Virginia for further analysis.

A source says another stain was found, adding that it was swabbed and came back negative for blood.

However, it will be further tested for any DNA.
---

more here: http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...ch-fourth-day-no-human-remains-148448035.html

 

[epiphany]

The source says when investigators sprayed Luminol on a wall in the basement, they detected "an organic substance" -- "possibly blood" -- and that the stain has been taken away for further testing. So far, about 50 percent of the basement has been removed.

The substance was detected Saturday in the former workspace of...


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/04/2...in-search-for-etan-patz-source/#ixzz1so9MJuGk

 

[epiphany]

Also from wfgodot's link above:

Investigators discovered a "stain of interest" on a concrete wall Saturday while taking apart the basement floor and walls, according to law enforcement sources. Officers from the NYPD Emergency Services Unit used a chainsaw to cut out a piece of the wall, which is also being taken to the FBI laboratory in Virginia.

The stain found Saturday is organic material, and sources say it may possibly by blood.

 

[passionflower]

I feel so bad for the parents and loved ones going through this roller coaster of emotions this week. Maybe he was removed. Thinking of what 'handyman' had said????

 

[wfgodot]

Not sure if Mr Miller made that exact statement or not, or if he did, in what context. LE can pretty well have its way with citizens in questioning if said citizen doesn't have a lawyer beside him or her.

Cop: And these dogs, Othneil, these dogs can pick up a scent of a body buried ages ago.
Cop2: And Mr Miller, do you know what these dogs can do if that body's been moved?
Mr Miller: No, what happens if the body's been moved?
Cop: They'll still hit on that scent, no matter how long it's been.

Then LE can say, truthfully, that the person of interest asked a question about the dogs being able to pick up a death scent from a body since moved.

 

[epiphany]

OM's attorney today:

Farkas told The Associated Press on Sunday that people with access to unconfirmed information about the Patz probe have leaked it to the news media "for their own inappropriate purposes."

Such "random bits of uncorroborated information and supposition," as Farkas called them, "serve no purpose in the public domain other than to skew public opinion and malign unfortunate individuals who cannot effectively respond."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...sFJ99A?docId=eaa29c206662411294001f7b8a62c3d6

 

[wfgodot]

OM's attorney today:

Farkas told The Associated Press on Sunday that people with access to unconfirmed information about the Patz probe have leaked it to the news media "for their own inappropriate purposes."

Such "random bits of uncorroborated information and supposition," as Farkas called them, "serve no purpose in the public domain other than to skew public opinion and malign unfortunate individuals who cannot effectively respond."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap...sFJ99A?docId=eaa29c206662411294001f7b8a62c3d6

Good catch. Precisely.

But that's the way the game's played, always working toward trial.

Mr. Miller's 75 years old. It wouldn't be hard to have him making all sorts of statements which would work against him, if he didn't have a lawyer beside him at questioning.