NY - Ex-President Donald Trump, charged with 34 criminal counts of falsifying business records, Apr 2023, Trial 25 Mar 2024 #2

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He wouldn.t get jail time simply for paying hush money...that's not illegal per se. He won't get jail time, if convicted in this case, either. But if he doesn't stop trashing the DA and his family and the Court and his family, he may wind up in jail if the Court issues an order for him to cease and desist and he then defies the order being in contempt of court. JMO Also, if he was truly worried about Melania ever finding out about his extramarital activities, he would have paid hush money for NDA in the Stormy adventure back in 2006, not in 2016. jmo
 
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<modsnip: Quoted post was removed due to politicizing>
I'm all for having it released too. I'm sure it'll come out at 'disclosure' (because the laws says so) and certainly at trial (if this case gets to trial). Not any different than the KK case or Delphi case or any myriad of other cases where the evidence is held close to the chest until trial.
 
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I'm very curious. Can someone tell me what church Trump is a member of? Where he attends regularly?


Laying it on thick, Trump declared: “The main thing that our country needs, again, is religion.” He insisted: “I’m fighting, very hard for people of religion, people that believe in God.” Finally, Trump implored his listeners: “I want you to pray really hard, because we have to have a victory in 2024.”


Trump's true god is riches <modsnip: removed biblical reference>

IMO, Trump only attends church as a form of political theater. <modsnip>
 
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<modsnip: Quoted post was removed>I think that trial testimony won't be kept from people. I am all in favor of transparency. And, I think that this case is about transparency, Mr. Trump wanted to hide his actions from the voting public. So it seems a little ironic that people want to make sure that Mr. Trump can have his say about these proceedings and talk about evidence that he wants to disclose but it is okay that millions of people were precluded from knowing about what he did with women when it was becoming clear that the questions about his behavior were coming to light---when he was the candidate, not as a person who is in the running to become the candidate.

The issue about a gag order is to protect the people who are working on this case and any potential witnesses who will be called. It does seem that once Mr. Trump begins to "out" people that they then become targets of people who suggest harming them or threaten to harm them. The world has lots of people who are willing to go overboard to show support--- Jan. 6 convicted people to name about 6k+JMHO.
 
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That letter is dated 6 months before MC's guilty pleas campaign finance violations, I doubt it holds much water now.

I'm not sure about that. It indicates Cohen told one story before he told another.

At the least, it casts doubt on the inciting incident. At most, it erases it.

It's an official document drawn up for the FEC by Cohen's attorney.
 
Another article about the House Judiciary Committee issuing subpoenas related to the investigation.

 
If I am not mistaken, Trump Org was paying Cohens attorney at that time. JMO Cohen, at that time was in lock-step with Trump Org. JMO
I think you are correct.

If Cohen was on the Trump Org's payroll, that's where his alliances lay. Or, should have.

Still, that does not excuse writing a bogus letter to the FEC. That would be highly illegal.
 
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Please leave biblical references out of this discussion. WS has members from all denominations and quotes from the bible and posts about religion can quickly derail a thread. This particular discussion is difficult enough as it is for WS staff to manage.

Also, name variations or derogatory terms for anyone are not allowed at Websleuths.
 
A former assistant DA resigned because he didn't think Bragg moved quickly enough on Trump and he even wrote a book about it. Rep. Jordan wants him to testify and admit the indictment was politically motivated. Huh?

The indictment is because everyone must be accountable if there is evidence they broke the law. The DA's office found evidence. Rep Jordan wants to pass a federal law to prohibit state criminal prosecutions of politicians. That's crazy, imo.

Jordan said that his committee's investigation will "inform the consideration of potential legislative reforms that would, if enacted, insulate current and former Presidents from such politically motivated state and local prosecutions."

 
Looking at that diagram, it lays out an obscure pathway to ensnare a politician into a in-kind campaign donation violation. The campaign has no control over how much, from whom or when the campaign donation occurs until after the fact. A donor could value an in kind donation of services at any figure, despite what the actual dollar payout to others actually was. The hush money payment could be a small fraction of the actual value of the services package donated to a campaign.
Regardless of who pays, the payment of hush-money to influence the outcome of an election is not legal in NY State or federally (campaign finance law). Reported or not, the hush-money payments are statutory in-kind campaign donations. They must be properly reported/recorded as campaign donations. The hush payment by Cohen exceeds the legal donation limit ($2,700). The payments were not reported by donor or by campaign- that's not legal. Motive exists to influence outcome of election. Motive exists to hide the hush-money NDA arrangement(s) from the public, and motive exists again, to hide those hush-money misdemeanor with false business records. MOO
The congressional sex impropriety slush fund has been mentioned. Do the beneficiaries of the slush fund monies fill out in kind campaign donation forms with the fec?
Congressional slush fund - not gonna address - don't know and seems a red-herring/irrelevant here IMO.

Disagree that either of the diagrams relies on the "pathway to ensnare a politician into an in-kind campaign donation". Campaign finance illegalities are present, but an additional issue that is not included in charges at this time.

The charts depict an attorney-produced chart that flushes out concepts that might explain what Prosecution's theory(s) might be. The charts reference campaign violations, but neither chart relies on campaign violations.

The first chart uses only NY state law.

The second chart identifies Federal law the Prosecution may choose to argue along with the NY state law.

First level false records - misdemeanor.
Both diagrams identify the Trump entities creating (cover-up) false record of Cohen's invoices as the first level falsified records misdemeanor. This is solid, simple NY State Statuatory Law; a False business financial record (checks/accounting books) is a misdemeanor.

Second level false records - felony.
Both diagrams show the bumping-level of the (cover-up) false records are the reimbursements to Cohen for Cohen's sham invoices. These false records are a felony. This is also solid, simple NY State Statutory Law; a False record made with the intent of covering an underlying misdemeanor is no longer a misdemeanor, but a felony.

Charges on the Indictment - based on Second level false records - felony.
Each record paying Cohen is a felony. 34 of them. In NY State, the Prosecution is required to identify the underlying crime (here the 1st level misdemeanors) that bumps-up each Cohen payment to a felony charge.

The diagrams detail other crimes and laws broken in this "catch and kill scheme", however these are additional "guessing the theory" comments. By NY Statute, None of the "other" detailed crimes need to be charged or proven - in order to successfully prosecute the 34 false record felonies. Some "other" crimes include: the conspiracy w/ several catch and kill schemes, the conspiracy to falsify records, various campaign finance law violations, or other false record crimes.

The DA mentioned some "other" crimes, but has not brought charges based on these "others". He mentions them for context. For intent, for motive. With organized planning. Defense can add/refine charges through this early process of back and forth.

The bottom line is that the 34 felony false record charges stand on their own. The underlying misdemeanors are also false records; in NY, they don't need to be tried to bump the next false records to felony level from misdemeanor.

Any other related/underlying crimes are mentioned as explanations, intent, organization, and motives for the cover-up. But so far those underlying items (e.g. conspiracy, campaign finance) are are not being prosecuted.
 
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A former assistant DA resigned because he didn't think Bragg moved quickly enough on Trump and he even wrote a book about it. Rep. Jordan wants him to testify and admit the indictment was politically motivated. Huh?

The indictment is because everyone must be accountable if there is evidence they broke the law. The DA's office found evidence. Rep Jordan wants to pass a federal law to prohibit state criminal prosecutions of politicians. That's crazy, imo.

Jordan said that his committee's investigation will "inform the consideration of potential legislative reforms that would, if enacted, insulate current and former Presidents from such politically motivated state and local prosecutions."

Because this thread is not about Jim Jordan, nor his credibility, I will only advise others to read any of the many, many, many articles regarding Mr. Jordan and his relationship with personal responsibility and knowledge of crimes.
MOO
 
A former assistant DA resigned because he didn't think Bragg moved quickly enough on Trump and he even wrote a book about it. Rep. Jordan wants him to testify and admit the indictment was politically motivated. Huh?

The indictment is because everyone must be accountable if there is evidence they broke the law. The DA's office found evidence. Rep Jordan wants to pass a federal law to prohibit state criminal prosecutions of politicians. That's crazy, imo.

Jordan said that his committee's investigation will "inform the consideration of potential legislative reforms that would, if enacted, insulate current and former Presidents from such politically motivated state and local prosecutions."


 
IMO, Non-NYC based practicing attorneys didn't fully understand NY Statute and are now hedging their original MSM hot takes. "NY law is unfamilar".

In their hot takes, they complained about the underlying crimes not being identified by Bragg, when they actually were. They missed the simplicity of NYS' statute on false records. They missed that the false record if created to hide another false record ... is a felony.

The cake is baked here in that Bragg needs no other underlying or co-existing crimes to charge in order to fully prosecute the false record felonies - or as Bragg calls them - "the lies".

Other crimes, including state and fed election crimes are associated with this case ... but these are just layers and layers of gravy. Or frosting. On a felony cake. To make everything stick.

I saw this comment: Elegant strategy wrapped with belts, suspenders and duct tape if necessary.

If Bragg wants, he can also link 2016 election cheating to 2020 ... the 2020 election crimes yet-to-be-prosecuted tell a continuing storyline of Trump's aggressive election cheating and interference, inviting international interference. Because of so many crimes - he also had a powerful need to have remained free from all these investigations by using the power of the WH. Trump's desperation as he lost 2020 was about being unprotected from his crimes and many investigations that his Presidency had been able to set aside. Bragg's not done a broad brush look at Trump's election cheating; hopefully he will introduce that as consistent thru-line of the 2 elections.

MOO
 
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