NY - Former President Donald Trump charged with 34 criminal counts of falsifying business records, Apr 2023

[MyBelle]

The plurality system is the simplest means of determining the outcome of an election. To win, a candidate need only poll more votes than any other single opponent; he need not, as required by the majority formula, poll more votes than the combined opposition.
Goodnight folks. Let's all rest up for Tuesday

Actually, in the U.S. it is the electoral system and Trump lost the electoral votes in 2020.

 

[NeverPersonal]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

I agree, let’s hope his predictions of “death and destruction” are wrong this time

It does surprise me. Other politicians have been prosecuted and convicted without calling for violence.

We the people have a constitutional right to protest, especially our government.
However, I am uncomfortable with a government figure, a POTUS or an ex POTUS, calling on people to protest in his behalf and the inclusion of violent rhetoric like “death and destruction could come down on the United States if I am indicted”. That’s banana republic stuff.
He’s using his incredible power and influence to lead people which is much different than a grassroots protest by the people.

BBM.
Yes, he is like a queen bee directing his worker bees. It is not only uncomfortable but unethical, inappropriate, and terrifying. IMO.

 

[Red Clover]

<modsnip - quoted post removed as off topic to this thread>
DJT should held accountable for his criminal actions; including instigating the seditious insurrection on 1/6, possessing top secret documents at Mar-A-Lago post presidency, the phone call to GA asking for votes, and the rape of E. Jean Carrol (and so much more)
IMO JMO MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

.
"A court official said on Sunday that the judge has asked both sides to submit their positions on whether cameras and video should be allowed in the courtroom and will decide on the issue on Monday."

Security tightened around Manhattan court ahead of Donald Trump's arraignment

Former US president Donald Trump is set to fly from Florida to New York City on Monday, ahead of his scheduled arraignment related to hush money paid to a *advertiser censored* star before the 2016 election.

www.abc.net.au

 

[everybodhi]

You know I find it hard to think this is pure political strategy. If only because it would be a stupid one. Trump lost a lot of traction after the midterms and began to be looked at as something of an embarrassment, he even lost airtime in places like FOX.

Any political strategist around in the last decade would have said the very last thing you want to give him right now is a lurid lawsuit (that's easy to frame as petty and vindictive) to rally against, a political prosecution narrative and lots and lots of oxygen. This is the best thing that could have happened to Trump politically. He was getting to 'old man shouts at cloud' energy and this catapulted him back into media relevance.

If they wanted to be strategic, they could have hammered him with he more serious cases. Having him all over the news for the secret document thing, the implications of that rehashed over and over might sway the odd person. 'That thing with the p-rnstar,' sounds frivolous.

I agree and think the more serious cases you allude to are coming, as well. This one happened earlier so of course it’s further along.
In fact, Michael Cohen has already been convicted and went to prison in 2018 for the campaign finance violations regarding Stormy and also the playboy model, payments to keep them quiet during the campaign about their sexual liaisons with Trump.
I don’t think any of it will change the minds of those on the so called Trump Train, he’s convinced them only he can save us while simultaneously playing the victim.

Lawyer compares Trump to Jesus Christ ahead of expected indictment

Trump's NFT trading cards jump in value after Manhattan indictment

 

[GRT]

We the people have a constitutional right to protest, especially our government.
However, I am uncomfortable with a government figure, a POTUS or an ex POTUS, calling on people to protest in his behalf and the inclusion of violent rhetoric like “death and destruction could come down on the United States if I am indicted”. That’s banana republic stuff.
He’s using his incredible power and influence to lead people which is much different than a grassroots protest by the people.

Al MOO -- I don't think there's anything with encouraging citizens to engage in protests. After all, protesting is an accepted and longstanding way for people to be able to voice their opinion en masse. JFK encouraged protests in support of Civil Rights, and LBJ prompted pro-Vietnam war protests. In hindsight, LBJ's might have been ill-advised. LOL

More recently, Obama encouraged protesting during the 2017 Women's March.

So, there's nothing wrong with protesting or encouraging protesting.

Encouraging violence is an entirely different matter. If Trump promotes violence, which I don't think he's done so far--correct me if I'm wrong--then that, in my opinion, crosses the line.

 

[GRT]

You know I find it hard to think this is pure political strategy. If only because it would be a stupid one. Trump lost a lot of traction after the midterms and began to be looked at as something of an embarrassment, he even lost airtime in places like FOX.

Any political strategist around in the last decade would have said the very last thing you want to give him right now is a lurid lawsuit (that's easy to frame as petty and vindictive) to rally against, a political prosecution narrative and lots and lots of oxygen. This is the best thing that could have happened to Trump politically. He was getting to 'old man shouts at cloud' energy and this catapulted him back into media relevance.

If they wanted to be strategic, they could have hammered him with he more serious cases. Having him all over the news for the secret document thing, the implications of that rehashed over and over might sway the odd person. 'That thing with the p-rnstar,' sounds frivolous.

Barring new charges that we don't yet know about--, I think this is a political strategy. You say it would be a "stupid one," and I tend to agree.

I also agree that Trump lost a lot of traction after the midterms, but most of that was due (JMOO) to how poorly he handled COVID.

But, Bragg ran on the platform (one of many) saying he'd go after Trump if he won the election. That throws these charges into the political realm. And, who knows? Maybe Bragg has loftier political aspirations, too.

We've seen so many failed attempts to take Trump down, that I think the American public has become leary of new attempts.

I'm thinking there might be more serious charges listed that we don't know yet. Like you, the "p-rnstar' thing seems frivolous, and seeing that it's past the statute of limitations, I keep thinking there must be something more that has been kept secret.

So, for me, if the charges all stem from the hush money thing, I think it's political and I don't think it will go anywhere. But, we still have a day to wait!

 

[everybodhi]

Al MOO -- I don't think there's anything with encouraging citizens to engage in protests. After all, protesting is an accepted and longstanding way for people to be able to voice their opinion en masse. JFK encouraged protests in support of Civil Rights, and LBJ prompted pro-Vietnam war protests. In hindsight, LBJ's might have been ill-advised. LOL

More recently, Obama encouraged protesting during the 2017 Women's March.

So, there's nothing wrong with protesting or encouraging protesting.

Encouraging violence is an entirely different matter. If Trump promotes violence, which I don't think he's done so far--correct me if I'm wrong--then that, in my opinion, crosses the line.

Those all began as grassroots protests about civil rights and millions of our fathers, sons and brothers at 18 years old being drafted unwillingly to die in the Vietnam war.
None of them were in support of one man’s personal political ambitions.

 

[everybodhi]

Barring new charges that we don't yet know about--, I think this is a political strategy. You say it would be a "stupid one," and I tend to agree.

I also agree that Trump lost a lot of traction after the midterms, but most of that was due (JMOO) to how poorly he handled COVID.

But, Bragg ran on the platform (one of many) saying he'd go after Trump if he won the election. That throws these charges into the political realm. And, who knows? Maybe Bragg has loftier political aspirations, too.

We've seen so many failed attempts to take Trump down, that I think the American public has become leary of new attempts.

I'm thinking there might be more serious charges listed that we don't know yet. Like you, the "p-rnstar' thing seems frivolous, and seeing that it's past the statute of limitations, I keep thinking there must be something more that has been kept secret.

So, for me, if the charges all stem from the hush money thing, I think it's political and I don't think it will go anywhere. But, we still have a day to wait!

New York’s statute of limitations has some exceptions to the deadline, including if the person being charged was living out of state.
There are limitations, in NY the extension is a maximum of 5 years, giving them 10 years to charge suspects living out of state.

Criminal Statutes of Limitations: Time Limits for State Charges

Tolling the Statute of Limitations​

In some cases, a "tolling" of the statute of limitations may take place. This means that the statute of limitations is temporarily suspended, similar to pausing a timer. This generally occurs when a suspect goes into hiding or leaves the state where the crime was committed.

Most often, state statutes of limitations require a suspect to remain within the state, visible and employed. These nuances give law enforcement time to conduct an investigation within the area. On the other hand, if a suspect is in hiding or living out of state or out of the country, their statutory time clock will pause and only restart when the suspect returns to the area.

Even with tolling, most states will still set a maximum amount of time to file charges. Florida's maximum extension for their criminal statutes of limitation is three years; New York's is five.

 

[cady]

Barring new charges that we don't yet know about--, I think this is a political strategy. You say it would be a "stupid one," and I tend to agree.

I also agree that Trump lost a lot of traction after the midterms, but most of that was due (JMOO) to how poorly he handled COVID.

But, Bragg ran on the platform (one of many) saying he'd go after Trump if he won the election. That throws these charges into the political realm. And, who knows? Maybe Bragg has loftier political aspirations, too.

We've seen so many failed attempts to take Trump down, that I think the American public has become leary of new attempts.

I'm thinking there might be more serious charges listed that we don't know yet. Like you, the "p-rnstar' thing seems frivolous, and seeing that it's past the statute of limitations, I keep thinking there must be something more that has been kept secret.

So, for me, if the charges all stem from the hush money thing, I think it's political and I don't think it will go anywhere. But, we still have a day to wait!

Trump was indicted by a New York grand jury. Bragg was doing his prosecutorial job in placing the witnesses and documents in front of that jury. Trump had an opportunity to present the grand jury with his version of facts and evidence and chose not to go under oath to speak his piece, which was certainly his right to decline. He did send his attorney, but only to cast doubt on Cohen's testimony. If the grand jurors wished to clear up any doubts, they had the opportunity to call for the testimony of any witness in this case. Again, Bragg is doing his job, and the grand jurors did theirs. JMO

 

[PommyMommy]

CNN - live updates

April 3, 2023 Trump indictment news

Former President Donald Trump has been indicted by a Manhattan grand jury, marking the first time in US history that a current or former president has faced criminal charges.

www.cnn.com

5 min ago

A judge is expected to issue an order Monday on camera access for Trump's Tuesday arraignment​

Several media outlets, including CNN, have asked a New York judge to unseal the grand jury indictment against former President Donald Trump. The news organizations are also asking for permission to broadcast Trump’s expected appearance in a Manhattan courtroom Tuesday for his arraignment on the charges.

In their letter Friday seeking to make the indictment public, the media outlets told Judge Juan Merchan – who is slated to preside over the historic proceedings – that “the right of access is at its zenith when applied to the first ever indictment of a former U.S. president.”

[...]

19 min ago

Trump will arrive in New York on Monday ahead of Tuesday's arraignment​

Former President Donald Trump is expected leave Florida around noon ET on Monday and land at La Guardia Airport in New York around 3 p.m. ET.

[...]

28 min ago

This is the judge who will preside over Trump's criminal arraignment on Tuesday​

When Donald Trump enters a New York courtroom Tuesday, he’ll face a seasoned judge who is no stranger to the former president’s orbit.

Acting New York Supreme Court Judge Juan Merchan has sentenced Trump’s close confidant Allen Weisselberg to prison, presided over the Trump Organization tax fraud trial and overseen former adviser Steve Bannon’s criminal fraud case.

[...]

 

[GRT]

Those all began as grassroots protests about civil rights and millions of our fathers, sons and brothers at 18 years old being drafted unwillingly to die in the Vietnam war.
None of them were in support of one man’s personal political ambitions.

Actually, LBJ encouraged protests FOR the war. The grassroots protests grew in opposition.

My point is just that presidents have encouraged protests of different agendas before. LBJ's could probably be included in the "political ambitions" group.

The thing they can't do is call for violence. Big, huge line in the sand there!

 

[Ontario Mom]

Al MOO -- I don't think there's anything with encouraging citizens to engage in protests. After all, protesting is an accepted and longstanding way for people to be able to voice their opinion en masse. JFK encouraged protests in support of Civil Rights, and LBJ prompted pro-Vietnam war protests. In hindsight, LBJ's might have been ill-advised. LOL

More recently, Obama encouraged protesting during the 2017 Women's March.

So, there's nothing wrong with protesting or encouraging protesting.

Encouraging violence is an entirely different matter. If Trump promotes violence, which I don't think he's done so far--correct me if I'm wrong--then that, in my opinion, crosses the line.

While I agree with your post, I do think Trump is dancing a fine line on his comments as for his calls for violence.
Legally I think it could be argued (the elite love those legal loopholes) that he never actually said for his supporters to engage in "ABC", he merely implied that ABC could happen if XYZ also happened.

He knows exactly what he's doing and so does everyone else.
Those who oppose him and those who support him.
And, those of us that can't stand any of the candidates right now.

jmo

 

[Eli9]

I respectfully disagree, this is different because of the call by the defendant to protest.
In hundreds of years of elections we never had a riot in the Capital, or anywhere else, by supporters of the candidate who lost.

It's been a few years but let's not forget that more than 200 people were arrested during the 2017 inauguration of Trump.

 

[branmuffin]

One of the details that immediately jumped off the pages of Southern District of New York (SDNY) prosecutors’ Friday sentencing memo for Michael Cohen has to do with “Individual-1,” also known as President Donald Trump.

Prosecutors were pretty open about who Individual-1 was from the start and how he came to “direct” Cohen to commit felonies:

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/5453395/USDOJ-Cohen-20181207.pdf

Federal Prosecutors 'Concluded' Trump 'Committed a Felony' | Law & Crime

One of the details that immediately jumped off the pages of Southern District of New York (SDNY) prosecutors' Friday sentencing memo for Michael Cohen regards "Individual-1," also known as President Donald Trump.

lawandcrime.com

Although I'm not trying to make light of this, your comment did actually make me laugh. There sure seems to be a lot of public protesting going on literally right now all over the world, for a wide variety of reasons. MSM outlets are reporting on it as well as social media. So serious question, who decides which "causes" are legit to protest for, and which ones aren't? (just a general sort of food for thought question)

I think it depends on what you are protesting about. It also depends on your definition of 'legit'. I don't want to turn this post into a political firefight but you can go back several decades and recognize protests that huge swaths of citizens thought were not legit and protests which were thought legit are now considered backward thinking. My opinion is those that protest this particular event are going to be firmly in the backward thinking camp in the history books. Well, as long as history isn't edited. Ask some Japanese kids about the rape of Nanking and they have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

Trump is expected to arrive at the New York City courthouse at 11 a.m. on Tuesday morning, hours ahead of his scheduled arraignment in front of Judge Juan Merchan at 2:15 p.m. The proceedings are expected to take 15 to 30 minutes, with extensive security around the building expected to search everyone in the courtroom twice.

Trump is likely to use a side entrance to the building, though the exact details of his arrival will not be known even by the court until shortly before his arrival for security reasons.

According to legal experts, Trump is likely to be fingerprinted and will take a mug shot, but there is not expected to be a "perp walk" or public arrival for security reasons. Trump is also unlikely to be handcuffed as a result of an arrangement made between the former president's legal team and the district attorney's office.
(…)
About 50-60 members of the press are expected to be allowed in the actual courtroom where the proceedings take place. There will also be two backup courtrooms for security reasons, and reporters will be forced to stay in the courtroom after proceedings end as the former president is escorted out of the building.

What will happen after proceedings remains unclear. Trump will be able to decide for himself whether he wants to exit the building through a side entrance or out the front doors, with some sources expecting Trump to prefer to exit through the front doors.
(…)
"President Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America, will deliver remarks at Mar-a-Lago in Palm Beach, Florida on Tuesday, April 4, 2023, at 8:15PM EDT," according to a statement released by the former president Sunday.

However, exactly what Trump will be able to say in those remarks is still a mystery, with some legal experts arguing he is likely to be under a "gag order" following the arraignment.

Trump's arraignment: Everything you need to know about the timeline of the legal proceedings

The timeline for where the case against former President Trump goes from here remains uncertain, with some speculating proceedings could drag on until after the election.

www.foxnews.com

 

[cady]

I think it depends on what you are protesting about. It also depends on your definition of 'legit'. I don't want to turn this post into a political firefight but you can go back several decades and recognize protests that huge swaths of citizens thought were not legit and protests which were thought legit are now considered backward thinking. My opinion is those that protest this particular event are going to be firmly in the backward thinking camp in the history books. Well, as long as history isn't edited. Ask some Japanese kids about the rape of Nanking and they have no idea what you are talking about.

I don't think that anyone here objects to protests of any kind. The objection is to violent and/or armed protests and to anyone who incites them. If a venue is blocked for security purposes, it is then, illegal to break through barriers. Follow the rules, and protest to your hearts delight. JMO

 

[JennieM]

Lunchtime departure for Trump flight​

Donald Trump is expected to fly to New York around noon today, according to sources in Florida, ahead of his historic arraignment tomorrow on charges of covering up a hush money payment to the adult film star Stormy Daniels.

As the former president packs his overnight case this morning at his Mar-a-Lago resort in Palm Beach, there’s a lot swirling both inside and outside the Manhattan courtroom.

New York state supreme court judge Juan Merchan is expected to rule imminently on a motion filed by several media outlets, including CNN, the New York Times and Washington Post, for permission to broadcast Tuesday afternoon’s hearing.

They also want Merchan to unseal the indictment against Trump, details of which are as yet unclear, other than it contains more than 30 charges and reportedly at least one felony for falsifying documents relating to the pay-off.

In support of the motion, lawyers for the media outlets insist:

"The right of access is at its zenith when applied to the first ever indictment of a former US president."

Lawyers for the former president, meanwhile, say they are expecting Merchan to issue a gag order Monday, or at his arraignment, on all parties in the case, after Trump maintained a furious tirade against Manhattan district attorney Alvin Bragg over the weekend.

Such an order could substantially impact what Trump will have to say in comments he is scheduled to make from Mar-a-Lago on Tuesday evening, immediately after returning from New York.

As for today, Trump’s flight is expected to leave Palm Beach international airport at midday, and arrive at LaGuardia airport in New York about 3pm, reports said. He will spend the night at his Trump Tower apartment in Manhattan.

Donald Trump arrives in New York for tomorrow’s court appearance – as it happened

Former president to be arraigned on Tuesday in hush money case brought by Manhattan district attorney Alvin Bragg

www.theguardian.com

 

[JennieM]

Donald Trump has the support of at least one world leader as he prepares to be arraigned on criminal charges, none other than Hungary’s authoritarian prime minister Viktor Orbán.

The hard right politician is the only one we know of to publicly tweet his backing, telling Trump on Monday to “keep on fighting” and that “we are with you”.

Orbán does not specify who the “we” is.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1642819156880785408

Donald Trump arrives in New York for tomorrow’s court appearance – as it happened

Former president to be arraigned on Tuesday in hush money case brought by Manhattan district attorney Alvin Bragg

www.theguardian.com

 

[anneg]

I don’t think security would be an issue with any previous president in my long lifetime. Not only has there been no reason to indict any other President except Nixon, but I can’t imagine that any other former president (even Nixon) would call for demonstrations at his arraignment and use incendiary language about the DA. So yes, this situation highly unusual.
JMO

I agree...and I'm older than you.