Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 1

[Jilllian]

I'm thinking this:

If Jennifer really wanted to leave, for whatever reason, she would have done it in a less messy way, and covered her tracks better. But she didn't. She left evidence of hair coloring and cutting behind. She left her phone on, or didn't delete the iTracker app, or whatever it is with the phone, and apparently left hundreds of pages of data on her phone, that one would think she would know could be analyzed. Keeping the phone would have made more sense. If she left voluntarily, why park her car in open view? She's lived her 7 years...surely she would know to hide her car somewhere else.

Why not take one's time, withdraw money from bank accounts here and there in a discreet way, hide it over a longer period of time, get a fake ID and board a train going to wherever. There are many ways to just up and leave voluntarily.

If it was planned, it was done so poorly, and IMO, she seems smarter than that.

I strongly believe she met foul play before her car even made it out of her driveway.

 

[Bettylou4you]

I live with two women who color and cut their hair. They do not leave locks of hair in the bathroom or hair dye lying around. Sorry, I don't buy that. If any part of this story reeks of setup its leaving a mess in the bathroom.

 

[Jilllian]

I live with two women who color and cut their hair. They do not leave locks of hair in the bathroom or hair dye lying around. Sorry, I don't buy that. If any part of this story reeks of setup its leaving a mess in the bathroom.

I'm not following. How is that a setup? And who would she be setting up?

 

[Jilllian]

I live with two women who color and cut their hair. They do not leave locks of hair in the bathroom or hair dye lying around. Sorry, I don't buy that. If any part of this story reeks of setup its leaving a mess in the bathroom.

Maybe I'm getting it now...not entirely sure.

Are you saying that GR could have taken the hair and hair coloring kit remnants out of the trash and placed them in the sink?

If that's the case, that would make sense to me.

JR leaving those things in the sink if she was leaving voluntarily doesn't make any sense at all.

 

[enzeder]

Maybe I'm getting it now...not entirely sure.

Are you saying that GR could have taken the hair and hair coloring kit remnants out of the trash and placed them in the sink?

If that's the case, that would make sense to me.

JR leaving those things in the sink if she was leaving voluntarily doesn't make any sense at all.

BBM ^ That's how I read it. Someone else.

 

[enzeder]

my suspicious mind says that unless JR went "mudding" (a common activity around here), someone drove her car around in fields and/or forests.

skiing at whaupaunaucau state forest was closed last weekend due to search and rescue being there. i'll go find the link.

BBM ^ Was this just a few days ago?. I see that forest is not far from JR home.

 

[krey]

I just don't think we know her well enough to say that she would never take off on her own, or that she's too smart not to have done it this way or that. Maybe she's ditzy and doesn't think things through all the way, or maybe she got in a hurry, or maybe she thought she was setting it up to look as if foul play had occurred. And we can't say that she would never ever leave the kids behind, or run off with some guy, or want to start a new life.

I think "victims" (and we don't know if she is a victim here or not) are often painted with a rainbow brush and no one can believe they would ever have done anything wrong. It's natural to do this, I guess, because it always always seems to happen.

But my question is: How can we be any more sure of her good character than her husband's? Why is it automatically assumed that it's him that's the bad guy instead of her? IF she DID take off, then she is most certainly the perpetrator, and GR and her kids are, in fact, the victims.

I guess I've just seen it happen one too many times.

 

[Bettylou4you]

I'm not following. How is that a setup? And who would she be setting up?

Sorry for not being clear. Just saying GR could have set that whole thing up. Not saying he did anything mind you, but if he incapacitated her he could have snipped some hair to add to the 'scenario' that she was changing her appearance. But it would defeat the whole purpose if she left the evidence behind. She wouldn't leave evidence of her disguise lying around, or even in the trash.

 

[krey]

Oh, and just to add.... Everyone said it was HIGHLY out of character for Ivy Merck to take off. She left her beloved dog behind, she allowed her parents to worry themselves sick, she left her job without telling them that she was essentially quitting, she dipped out on her best friend and roommate. Everyone said she was the sweetest person in the world and would never hurt a fly.

She was very intelligent and well-educated, but she left her car in plain sight in a parking lot. Granted, in her case, she left notes in the car saying she needed some time to "work some things out." But people speculated that someone forced her to write the notes, and that she had met with foul play.

For 3 weeks she was gone - no phone or internet activity. Not a peep. Then she turned up way down in Miami, FL, alive and well. There was speculation that maybe she was pregnant, or had an eating disorder, or was having a gay affair with her roommate, one or all of which caused her to run off. We never got any real answers as to why she did it.

I'm just trying to put it into perspective a little, and offer a similiar scenario, where no one EVER would have thought that this sweet girl would have taken off on her own..... but she did just that.

 

[The Cheese]

I just don't think we know her well enough to say that she would never take off on her own, or that she's too smart not to have done it this way or that. Maybe she's ditzy and doesn't think things through all the way, or maybe she got in a hurry, or maybe she thought she was setting it up to look as if foul play had occurred. And we can't say that she would never ever leave the kids behind, or run off with some guy, or want to start a new life.

I think "victims" (and we don't know if she is a victim here or not) are often painted with a rainbow brush and no one can believe they would ever have done anything wrong. It's natural to do this, I guess, because it always always seems to happen.

But my question is: How can we be any more sure of her good character than her husband's? Why is it automatically assumed that it's him that's the bad guy instead of her? IF she DID take off, then she is most certainly the perpetrator, and GR and her kids are, in fact, the victims.

I guess I've just seen it happen one too many times.

Aren't we supposed to treat Jennifer and her family as victims? Because of the victim-friendly atmosphere here? I'm just asking because I'm new and I'm unclear on some of the rules.

 

[krey]

Aren't we supposed to treat Jennifer and her family as victims? Because of the victim-friendly atmosphere here? I'm just asking because I'm new and I'm unclear on some of the rules.

I'm not trying to tell anyone not to treat them like victims Sorry if it came across that way. Everyone has the right to their thoughts and opinions, and the right to voice them.

I guess I'm just trying to speak for the other side, since I don't believe GR did anything. And if he truly didn't do anything, then I feel really bad for him that people are suspecting him. Again, I'm not telling anyone not to - just saying that I feel bad for him.

And you're right, this is definitely a victim-friendly site. I was just trying to point out that we don't know that she IS a victim. LE has never said that they suspect foul play, and as far as we know, no evidence has been found to suggest that there's been foul play. They've never said they believe her to be in danger, or anything of that nature (unless I've missed it somewhere where they've said that).

 

[The Cheese]

I'm not trying to tell anyone not to treat them like victims Sorry if it came across that way. Everyone has the right to their thoughts and opinions, and the right to voice them.

I guess I'm just trying to speak for the other side, since I don't believe GR did anything. And if he truly didn't do anything, then I feel really bad for him that people are suspecting him. Again, I'm not telling anyone not to - just saying that I feel bad for him.

And you're right, this is definitely a victim-friendly site. I was just trying to point out that we don't know that she IS a victim. LE has never said that they suspect foul play, and as far as we know, no evidence has been found to suggest that there's been foul play. They've never said they believe her to be in danger, or anything of that nature (unless I've missed it somewhere where they've said that).

Thanks, krey. No, I didn't think you were trying to tell anyone not to treat them as victims. I do see your point. I was just looking for some clarity.

This is a tough case because the police aren't giving any indications of their working theories. I'm worried about Jennifer because of the way the car and phone were left.

Maybe the police will open up a little more soon, and let us know what direction they're going in.

 

[krey]

Thanks, krey. No, I didn't think you were trying to tell anyone not to treat them as victims. I do see your point. I was just looking for some clarity.

This is a tough case because the police aren't giving any indications of their working theories. I'm worried about Jennifer because of the way the car and phone were left.

Maybe the police will open up a little more soon, and let us know what direction they're going in.

BBM

It really is hard to know what to think, when they're giving us practically nothing.

I know I do this a lot here, but I try to think back on other cases and compare the actions of LE, family, etc to see if we can find any similarities... hoping that we can guess what their working theories are with Jennifer! I guess it's not working too well, though, b/c I can't manage to make any sense of the silence and lack of information put forth.

 

[krey]

Jillian, are there any bus stops nearby the apt complex where her car was left?? (I can try to google later, but thought you might know off the top of your head)

 

[krey]

Okay, so there's a Greyhound bus station just 1 mile from where her car was left. This link http://www.greyhound.com/en/locations/terminal.aspx?city=151294 shows a location at:
CARMENS CAFE
6 MECHANIC ST
Norwich, NY 13815

Here's the google map from the apartment complex to the cafe:
6 Mechanic St, Norwich, NY 13815 to Plymouth St, Norwich, NY 13815 - Google Maps

Just an observation.

 

[Londonrraine]

Thanks, krey. No, I didn't think you were trying to tell anyone not to treat them as victims. I do see your point. I was just looking for some clarity.

This is a tough case because the police aren't giving any indications of their working theories. I'm worried about Jennifer because of the way the car and phone were left.

Maybe the police will open up a little more soon, and let us know what direction they're going in.

Let's Review: December 18 http://www.wbng.com/news/local/Police-Search-Around-Home-of-Missing-Woman-183965521.html

"Sheriff Ernie Cutting said they are executing search warrants for the 18 acre grounds, the home, cars, computers and phone records."

"Cutting said there are dozens of leads to follow. And as the investigation goes on, their work could become more complex."

"We're going to continue until we here from her or locate her. We're not gonna stop, we're gonna continue looking until we find answers."

December 26th- http://cnynews.com/sheriffs-now-wait-for-forensic-results-in-missing-jennifer-ramsaran-case/

January 15, 2013 - LE awaits forensic results.

 

[krey]

Let's Review: December 18 http://www.wbng.com/news/local/Police-Search-Around-Home-of-Missing-Woman-183965521.html

"Sheriff Ernie Cutting said they are executing search warrants for the 18 acre grounds, the home, cars, computers and phone records."

"Cutting said there are dozens of leads to follow. And as the investigation goes on, their work could become more complex."

"We're going to continue until we here from her or locate her. We're not gonna stop, we're gonna continue looking until we find answers."

December 26th- http://cnynews.com/sheriffs-now-wait-for-forensic-results-in-missing-jennifer-ramsaran-case/

...LE awaits forensic results.

I wonder how long it takes to get those forensic results? December 26th was about 3 weeks ago. I wonder if LE has their own theory of what happened. I wonder if they would be being more vocal if they thought she was dead and they had a suspect. I wonder, if they did think she was dead, if they'd be amping up the search party efforts.

I wonder, I wonder, I wonder......

ETA: Just saw your edit - where did you get the January 15th (today) date from?

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

Well, sometimes people change their hair color as a part of a disguise, which would fit if she was taking off. Seems odd if she really did it that day, just to go to the mall, it is kind of a pain in the *advertiser censored**, JMO.

See now I can see her doing it to meet someone - but not to run away. If you're going to disguise yourself, why leave huge clues as to your new look?

But.. if I was meeting someone I wouldn't change my hair colour THE SAME DAY in case it went wrong. Or, as happens when I colour my hair, I end up with an obviously dyed scalp, face, arms....

 

[krey]

http://www.wbng.com/news/local/Police-Search-Around-Home-of-Missing-Woman-183965521.html

Somehow, I don't recall reading this article before, so a few things jumped out at me. Granted, this was published way back on Dec 18th, but that was still one week after she'd gone missing.

"There is no sign whether she is dead or alive, so investigators are moving ahead as if she is still alive."

""At this point it's equal," Cutting said."

"The Sheriff's Office said the key at this point is to reach out to anyone who knows Ramsaran or where she might go."

He did say equal, like it could be either/or. But it sounds like, at least at that point, they didn't at all discount the possibility that she could have run off.

~~Sorry to keep beating a dead horse :blushing:

 

[Londonrraine]

I wonder how long it takes to get those forensic results? December 26th was about 3 weeks ago. I wonder if LE has their own theory of what happened. I wonder if they would be being more vocal if they thought she was dead and they had a suspect. I wonder, if they did think she was dead, if they'd be amping up the search party efforts.

I wonder, I wonder, I wonder......

ETA: Just saw your edit - where did you get the January 15th (today) date from?

January 15th, meaning today, I just put today's date in here.

Re: forensic testing, prints can take a week or two, depending on how much of a print they got, and if it's finger, ear, etc.

It is possible they found some kind of DNA and that takes months.

As for the quiet- There is a reason LE isn't talking and it is best to give them some time.