Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 1

[enzeder]

I also agree that this is threatening language.

I saw that "Whose name will be omitted for the time being" comment on that page earlier today. I read it as a veiled threat. IMO

 

[Jilllian]

Wow. I went to work and...

This all seems very strange.

It seems unfortunate, because due to what's happened with this search what I would suggest is getting in touch with LE and explaining the situation (presumably they're aware already, but if not) and asking what they think you should do. I think that's sad because obviously they should be focusing on finding Jennifer, not dealing with drama, and also because it seems to me that calling off the search would play nicely into whoever is involved with Jennifer's disappearance AND the people or person saying the search was unauthorised, as they will then be able to make it look like they were telling the truth about it being a bad idea.

However, what's important is finding Jennifer. So I feel like, if you ask LE and they are noncommittal or discouraging maybe you should listen to that and call it off. But if they are willing to stand behind it then I think its still a good idea.

Maybe check in with JRs mom too? See what she thinks?

Totally just my two cents. Above all I hope you stay safe, and if you no longer feel its appropriate to go out then you should trust your insticts.

thanks for the help. but here's the thing: so *many* people have been calling the lieutenant today, and based on what the PI from Missing and Abducted Persons said, they hate when people call over things like this. So, GR encouraged dozens of people, if not more, to CALL to find out if searching was okay. Now I know if I call again, they probably will be noncommittal or discouraging, just like you mentioned. And where does that leave Jennifer? And her family?

Exactly where JR wants her to be, IMO.

JR's mom has posted on the site. She is concerned about the search now too.

That man has WAY too much power over others.

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

Wow Jillian.. I can understand your having doubts.. and why there have been allusions to people being afraid of GR. You need to do what's right for you, but I would definitely speak to LE and tell them you feel that GR has made you feel threatened; and also ask if there's any truth in what has been said about concerns over "Jack Stevens" - I haven't seen anything from him that concerns me. As for fake - well a ton of people on FB use fake names, and if he is a friend/relative who wished to retain some anonimity I can understand that too. LE might also be interested in knowing GR is planning to go along.

What I would say is he seems to be being drawn out into making inappropriate remarks in public forums.. the postings on that other page are erratic and desperate to say the least. You can understand why he's been largely quiet because it doesn't do him any favours when he speaks...

 

[krey]

I, too, would hate to see the search called off, because that would mean that intimidation has won out. And that's exactly what whoever is running the Missing Person page is using to try to control things: INTIMIDATION. If LE doesn't want a search being done, I would think they could attempt to give you somewhat of a good reason for it - at which point I am sure you would do whatever they feel is best for Jennifer. But vague references to LE not wanting a search done just doesn't hold much water.

Let me go ahead and be blunt here: I know I went on and on and on about thinking Jennifer probably ran off, but I no longer think so.

And I will say that IF anyone close to Jennifer actually thought she left on her own, a search would not be viewed as a threat, and would not be so heavily discouraged. I think their extreme attitude about this is very telling.

 

[krey]

And I'm sorry, but where is LE's leadership in this matter?? This is all very obviously having a negative impact on the community, and has reached the point of people feeling threatened and intimidated. And that is not okay. I don't understand why they don't hold a press conference, or put out a release with at least some indication of how the investigation is going. I'm sure they have their reasons, but I can't imagine what those reasons could be.

And why isn't LE doing searches every single weekend??

Ugh, I just don't get it.

 

[The Cheese]

I think it's a bad idea to do a search when the police are discouraging it, and stating they want professional searchers only, in order to avoid evidence being compromised. I don't know why anyone would do a search anyway under those circumstances, and take a risk on compromising an investigation for a missing woman. The police know what they're doing, and people shouldn't make their job harder. MOO :twocents:

http://www.facebook.com/JenniferRam...?comment_id=5534206&offset=0&total_comments=8

Seeing Jennifer's mother's post is heartbreaking MOO :twocents:

http://www.facebook.com/JenniferRamsaranHelpFindHer/posts/491326374247406

 

[Truman]

GR's resistance to public searches suggests to me that there is evidence to be found nearby.

 

[Drew316]

I can't see the evening sun article without signing up for a subscription (paid). Is there another way to access it without paying? Or could someone recap it? Thanks.

Hello all, i apologize for my absence...work has been hectic, i was just getting caught up. It appears the evening sun article has been taken down, there are a few comments on the page about the article now missing.

 

[Drew316]

I have a thought, i looked through to see if anyone else had brought it up and didn't see anything so correct me if someone has already mentioned this...

Has LE or anyone else for that matter searched further along on rt 23 to see if anything else had been dropped along the road? Or any other alternate route to Destiny USA from where the cell phone was located?

I also have some other thoughts/questions...

Can someone post the actual picture of the van with the mud on it? I tried viewing the picture but i couldn't get it to load for me.

I wish i could be there to assist in the search on Sunday, I'm about an hour and a half from there, closer to the Syracuse area and i actually work in downtown Syracuse and I'll be out of town for the weekend. I'll keep an eye out for any other searches.

Not sure who it was, someone mentioned the bus stop in Norwich, Carmen's Cafe...has anyone been there to ask if someone matching her description came in to get a bus ticket?

Like i said, i don't know if anybody has brought these up or not, if so i apologize...

 

[krey]

I have a thought, i looked through to see if anyone else had brought it up and didn't see anything so correct me if someone has already mentioned this...

Has LE or anyone else for that matter searched further along on rt 23 to see if anything else had been dropped along the road? Or any other alternate route to Destiny USA from where the cell phone was located?

I also have some other thoughts/questions...

Can someone post the actual picture of the van with the mud on it? I tried viewing the picture but i couldn't get it to load for me.

I wish i could be there to assist in the search on Sunday, I'm about an hour and a half from there, closer to the Syracuse area and i actually work in downtown Syracuse and I'll be out of town for the weekend. I'll keep an eye out for any other searches.

Not sure who it was, someone mentioned the bus stop in Norwich, Carmen's Cafe...has anyone been there to ask if someone matching her description came in to get a bus ticket?

Like i said, i don't know if anybody has brought these up or not, if so i apologize...

Great questions and suggestions, Drew. Glad to have you here

I'm the one who brought up about the bus stop. I have to hope that LE would have done exactly what you're suggesting, and failing that, I would have to hope that a family member would have done it. But as far as I know, no one has stated anything about it, so there's no way to know if it's been done or not.

I, too, would like to see a picture of the van with mud on it. Has a photo been put out there? If it has, I'm unaware of it.

 

[krey]

I was just catching up on the fb pages. If LE indeed doesn't want searches done for fear of evidence being contaminated, then how about they lead the searches themselves!? Or gather more experienced search teams to do extensive and ongoing searches until something is found.

If it were my family member, and no one was looking for her, I'd be out there on foot every day looking for her myself. I couldn't just sit and wait for someone else to decide to take action. Sometimes when no one else is doing anything, you have to step up and do it yourself.

 

[Drew316]

Great questions and suggestions, Drew. Glad to have you here

I'm the one who brought up about the bus stop. I have to hope that LE would have done exactly what you're suggesting, and failing that, I would have to hope that a family member would have done it. But as far as I know, no one has stated anything about it, so there's no way to know if it's been done or not.

I, too, would like to see a picture of the van with mud on it. Has a photo been put out there? If it has, I'm unaware of it.

Krey, here is what i was talking about with the picture of the van Jillian had posted, i clicked the link but it won't load for me.

just found this, as posted by her sister:

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?lc0a5a65wofcb5c

note: "....her van found (unusually covered with mud) at Plank Road Manor, Plymouth Street, in the City of Norwich.

 

[krey]

Krey, here is what i was talking about with the picture of the van Jillian had posted, i clicked the link but it won't load for me.

Okay, I can see the flyer, but it only shows 3 pictures of Jennifer. No pictures of the van. This is definitely where we read about the van being "unusually covered with mud" though!

Does anyone else know if a van w/mud picture was ever posted anywhere? (I'm asking just in case I've missed it somehow, but I'm pretty certain that one was never put out there.....)

 

[Drew316]

Okay, I can see the flyer, but it only shows 3 pictures of Jennifer. No pictures of the van. This is definitely where we read about the van being "unusually covered with mud" though!

Does anyone else know if a van w/mud picture was ever posted anywhere? (I'm asking just in case I've missed it somehow, but I'm pretty certain that one was never put out there.....)

Oh my apologies, i must have misunderstood...I saw the note about the van and just assumed it was a picture of the van. Like i said, it never loaded for me so i didn't know what it was.

 

[LivingJuicy]

I honestly don't think that LE should discourage any searching unless they have a target and are waiting on forensics for an arrest. That's the only thing that makes sense to me. I lf my loved one was missing, I would take any and all help. And if I was uncertain, inwould still be gracious, humbled, and thankful.

 

[sreshowtime]

why isn't LE 'sponsoring' searches, for lack of a better word...
there are organizations, like Klaaskids Foundation, SAR groups et al, that will come in to direct , train, and coordinate volunteers & searches and liaison with LE...there are definitely certain criteria that need to be followed, to maintain the integrity of any evidence/crime scene...even documenting the ID of the adult volunteer searchers (children are normally excluded)

Has LE indicated that they might be willing to facilitate using 'professional' SAR groups that can draw upon volunteers to help search?

 

[krey]

Oh my apologies, i must have misunderstood...I saw the note about the van and just assumed it was a picture of the van. Like i said, it never loaded for me so i didn't know what it was.

No worries! It would be really nice to actually have a picture. It would tell us so much more about the mud on the car than just a vague description. But they've been so silent about things that I very much doubt that will ever happen.

Honestly, reading about the mud on the van was the very first time I had an inkling that said "uh-oh"....

 

[krey]

I honestly don't think that LE should discourage any searching unless they have a target and are waiting on forensics for an arrest. That's the only thing that makes sense to me. I lf my loved one was missing, I would take any and all help. And if I was uncertain, inwould still be gracious, humbled, and thankful.

Your last two sentences there, very well-said! :rocker:

I can see maybe waiting on forensics to make an arrest. But I still don't understand about the searches, because it seems like finding Jennifer would be of the utmost importance regardless. And the sooner the better, I would think, for so many many reasons.

I can see wanting professionals to search, so that evidence isn't compromised, but they're not doing a lot of searches.

What the heck? :waitasec:

 

[The Cheese]

why isn't LE 'sponsoring' searches, for lack of a better word...
there are organizations, like Klaaskids Foundation, SAR groups et al, that will come in to direct , train, and coordinate volunteers & searches and liaison with LE...there are definitely certain criteria that need to be followed, to maintain the integrity of any evidence/crime scene...even documenting the ID of the adult volunteer searchers (children are normally excluded)

Has LE indicated that they might be willing to facilitate using 'professional' SAR groups that can draw upon volunteers to help search?

According to what I linked to above, they want to use professional SAR. I don't know if they mean their own, or if they'd be open to an organization.

 

[Truman]

If I had committed a crime, having time to replay my actions over and over in my mind would probably make me wonder if I had covered my tracks as thoroughly as I could have. I'll bet that an upcoming search would have me pretty nervous. It might even tempt me to return to the scene to remove any incriminating evidence.

I'd sure hope I wasn't under surveillance in those few days leading up to the search. Otherwise I might lead LE right to the crime scene.

If you catch my drift.