Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #10

[momrids6]

Looks like a very active group...

https://www.gsnypenn.org/Pages/default.aspx

 

[Sharoneonta]

Another question I posed on ORR's video was in regards to trash collecting.

What is the trash collection schedule for the apartment complex, and is it possible that evidence could have been dumped in the dumpster and been picked up at any point between the 11th (a Tuesday) and the 16th (a Sunday)?

This was discussed. Somewhere.

 

[Sharoneonta]

Sorry to be a PITA. Can someone post a(nother) link to ORRs video? I promise I'll bookmark it and never ask again.

 

[momrids6]

OT and lol, for a long time my dearly departed mom thought her computer was just an aol email machine. She had no idea she could do other things. But she became pretty good on it, bless her heart, even though she was eighty. She lived very near this area (in Binghamton) and most of her same-age friends never got news online. The local news on TV was all-important, as well as the newspaper.

My DH went to grad school in Binghamton- heard everything and more than I needed to at the gas station, the diner, the post office, church, and the grocery store...

 

[LolaAngelina]

Sorry to be a PITA. Can someone post a(nother) link to ORRs video? I promise I'll bookmark it and never ask again.

I'm pretty sure its on the media thread Sharon.

 

[Sharoneonta]

Never mind.

 

[SouthAussie]

Looks like a very active group...

https://www.gsnypenn.org/Pages/default.aspx

Didn't Jen volunteer as a girl scout leader/helper .. was this the group?

Good to see that the girl scouts have such a good screening process. Jen must have had a pretty stable, squeaky clean background.

Just can't understand why they said she ran away ....

Q: Do Girl Scouts run background checks on their volunteers?

A: Yes. Protecting the girls and young women in our charge as well as the Girl Scout Movement is top priority, and screenings and reference checks are integral parts of our due diligence process and risk management policy. Background screening is the process of authenticating the information supplied to a potential employer by an applicant on his of her resume, application and during interviews. At Girl Scouts, the screening of volunteers (and employees) includes references checks and criminal background checks, which are performed by independent, third-party, background-screening agencies.

http://www.girlscouts.org/for_adults/volunteering/volunteer_faq.asp#DoGirlScoutsrunbackground

 

[momrids6]

The color that shows up in pics doesn't ACCURATELY depict the ACTUAL color of Jen's van. All of the many different flyers created show a maroon van. In reality, it is NOT maroon.

This is important to know.

ETA: Maybe this pic will show it better.

I looked it up: the 2006 Town and Country did not come in Maroon- it came in Imperial Red- and you could also get a bronze overcoating...

 

[momrids6]

Is there more than one video? I see the apartments at the end, hear that she was parked in front of building C, see building D and the area where LE looks for speeders but I didn't hear/see anything about which spot she was in or who normally parked there.

Jillian had told us what she repeated above before ORR shot the video...and I thought he showed where the tenant's van was
pertaining to the dumpster, etc... I am hearing impaired though- so I did not catch all of what ORR said

 

[Foxfire]

Off Topic but very important-Please share:

Folks on websleuths follow many missing/murdered persons cases. Did you know about Suzanne's Law. The Parents of missing Suzanne Lyall(NY) were instrumental in getting this Federal Law passed. They also began the inmate poker card program and formed the 'Center for HOPE Foundation:

http://definitions.uslegal.com/s/suzannes-law/
Suzanne's Law Law & Legal Definition
definitions.uslegal.com
Suzanne’s laws is a federal law concerning missing persons signed into law by President Bush as part of the national "Amber Alert". It provides that there shall be no waiting period before a missing persons report can be made..
But as important, the Law went into effect in 2002. Any person under the age of 21 missing after 2002 can be added to The 'National Center for Missing & Exploited Children', which provides many resources to the Families of the missing, including a caseworker..
Suzanne's Law & Legal Definition
definitions.uslegal.com

Please share with your friends. I have been following missing/murdered cases for over 5 years but was unaware that Suzanne's Law was retroactive...

 

[Abigail]

OT and lol, for a long time my dearly departed mom thought her computer was just an aol email machine. She had no idea she could do other things. But she became pretty good on it, bless her heart, even though she was eighty. She lived very near this area (in Binghamton) and most of her same-age friends never got news online. The local news on TV was all-important, as well as the newspaper.

Yes, this is my experience as well. And even younger people who do have access to the internet don't necessarily get the news online.

Plank Road Manor is listed as "affordable" housing, so sounds like the people there may be lower income -- retirees on a fixed income, and young people just starting out. They may not be able to afford the $50 or whatever it is now to get wireless access. Elderly folks on a fixed income might stick with the old Juno dial up service (connected to land line) that's used to be free (and still is free for people who signed up with it years ago) -- that's what my Mom had -- she could get emails, but it was too slow to go on the internet.

At any rate, the main relevance as to what media the local people access is whether or not they would have been alerted to Jenn's disappearance and when and through which medium. Whether they would have even been thinking to look out for a van.

 

[Montjoy]

OT and lol, for a long time my dearly departed mom thought her computer was just an aol email machine. She had no idea she could do other things. But she became pretty good on it, bless her heart, even though she was eighty.

OT - but that is simply adorable, and considering the range of uses for a computer that most of us neglect or overlook most of the time, her experience speaks to most people.

 

[Abigail]

The color that shows up in pics doesn't ACCURATELY depict the ACTUAL color of Jen's van. All of the many different flyers created show a maroon van. In reality, it is NOT maroon.

This is important to know.

ETA: Maybe this pic will show it better.

I see what you mean -- when I just looked at the little photo, couldn't really tell, but when I clicked to enlarge, it definitely has an orange cast to it.

But...it was the residents that said it was similar, right?? Maybe that other van -- the one that belongs to the resident - is also a bit orangy in the right light. And, it was overcast and rainy on Dec. 11, so the color may have not been as noticeable on a dark day, and, if the van were muddy, the color may have not been as obvious. I can't remember what the weather was like the next fews days after...didn't Amanda or someone pull up the Farmer's Almanac??

I noticed in the photo that Ace posted that the resident's van was parked on the SIDE of the apartment building -- not right in front where it would be obvious to our elderly Miss Marples looking out their windows. That parking lot has a row of places to park right in front of the building, and then another row out by the street. And...I've been thinking...if I were going to leave a van at an apt. parking lot, I would NOT leave it right in front of the building -- I would be more likely to be seen. I would park it out by the street. But seeing that photo of the resident's van -- if the van was parked on the SIDE of the apartment, it would be even better than out by the street -- not be obvious to people looking out their windows, and the perp could slip between the units and to the back of the property, and head out that way.

 

[Abigail]

I looked it up: the 2006 Town and Country did not come in Maroon- it came in Imperial Red- and you could also get a bronze overcoating...

Good sleuthing there!!

So...why on earth did it described as "maroon" on all the media and flyers???

Where did THAT info come from??

 

[Foxfire]

Good sleuthing there!!

So...why on earth did it described as "maroon" on all the media and flyers???

Where did THAT info come from??

Remy..

 

[Abigail]

This was discussed. Somewhere.

I remember the question about the dumpster and pickup times being discussed, but don't remember the question ever being answered. Was that one of those questions that got forgotten when another topic started getting a lot of attention?

 

[SouthAussie]

Remy..

Couldn’t look on the internet to find the car’s colour

Couldn’t look on the box to find the hair colour of Jen’s ‘possible’ hair colour change

Couldn’t take LE or Jen’s father with him to look for the phone

Couldn’t search for the van

Couldn’t search for Jen (not even in her bathroom apparently)


I dunno .... ? :waitasec:

 

[LJKaust]

Couldn’t look on the internet to find the car’s colour

Couldn’t look on the box to find the hair colour of Jen’s ‘possible’ hair colour change

Couldn’t take LE or Jen’s father with him to look for the phone

Couldn’t search for the van

Couldn’t search for Jen (not even in her bathroom apparently)


I dunno .... ? :waitasec:

Twas all a bit too hard I guess...... Unless,of course, he had something to hide.

 

[Abigail]

Been giving some thought to the van, and when it was parked at Plank Road Apts, and the implications of when it was parked.

Scenario 1: Van parked there on Dec. 11

Scenario 1A: Unknown perp would have had to convinced Jenn to let him into her van, then killed her, dumped her body on Center Road, phone at the bridge, then left her van at Plank Rd Apt.
Problems with this scenario: With whom would Jennifer had met and taken in her own van voluntarily? Difficulty of killing someone INSIDE a van without obvious signs like blunt force trauma, or gunshot, or ligature marks on neck. Difficulty of getting someone undressed inside a van. WHERE would all of this business of killing her, undressing her, and then disposing of her body have taken place without being observed?? What would be the unknown perp's motive in murdering Jenn? And...how did the perp get from the Plank Road apartments to his own vehicle or home?

Scenario 1B: Jenn dies at home. GR takes her body to Center Road, quickly rolls body out of van and down embankment, takes van to Plank Rd Apts, and then jogs to YMCA. This could all be done in about 45 to 50 minutes (less than the time it would take to jog from home to the Y), thus fitting in neatly with his alibi.

Scenario 2: van is parked at Plank Road apartments a couple days before her Dad discovered it on Dec. 16

Scenario 2A Unknown perp somehow manages to get Jenn to stop and let him into her van. He then kills her, undresses her, dumps her body on Center Road and her phone at the bridge, then goes back to the area (probably a seasonal road) where his own vehicle is parked, and leaves Jenn's van there. Then, several days later, he drives Jenn's van to the Plank Road apartments and parks it.
Problems with this scenario: all the same problems mentioned in Scenario 1A above. Plus, there would be the risk of van possibly being noticed by LE or citizens, since missing persons report would have been filed by then, and media reports went out on Dec. 14. Plus, if Jenn's van was parked off some seasonal road between Dec. 11 to 14 (or so), then he would have had to drive out there, leave his own vehicle, drive Jenn's van to the apartments, and then somehow get back to his own vehicle.

Scenario 2B Jenn dies at home. GR takes her in the red van to Center Road and leaves her and disposes of the phone, and then parks Jenn's van somewhere (seasonal road?) and then....somehow gets to the Y. Then, several days later, he goes to wherever he left her van, drives it to the Plank Road apts., and then somehow gets back to his own vehicle or goes to the Y and bums a ride home.
Problems with this scenario are mainly logistics and time: Unless he initially parked Jenn's van relatively close to Norwich, he would not have enough time to dump her body and then get to the Y. And then...he would have to get to where her van was left, leave his own vehicle there, and then somehow get back to his own vehicle and get home. This could have been done if he had an accomplice giving him a ride to where Jenn's van was parked, and then picking him up at the Y. But otherwise, it would have been a little hard. And then, why take the risk of moving the van at that point?

 

[Amanda79]

Been giving some thought to the van, and when it was parked at Plank Road Apts, and the implications of when it was parked.

Scenario 1: Van parked there on Dec. 11

Scenario 1A: Unknown perp would have had to convinced Jenn to let him into her van, then killed her, dumped her body on Center Road, phone at the bridge, then left her van at Plank Rd Apt.
Problems with this scenario: With whom would Jennifer had met and taken in her own van voluntarily? Difficulty of killing someone INSIDE a van without obvious signs like blunt force trauma, or gunshot, or ligature marks on neck. Difficulty of getting someone undressed inside a van. WHERE would all of this business of killing her, undressing her, and then disposing of her body have taken place without being observed?? What would be the unknown perp's motive in murdering Jenn? And...how did the perp get from the Plank Road apartments to his own vehicle or home?

Scenario 1B: Jenn dies at home. GR takes her body to Center Road, quickly rolls body out of van and down embankment, takes van to Plank Rd Apts, and then jogs to YMCA. This could all be done in about 45 to 50 minutes (less than the time it would take to jog from home to the Y), thus fitting in neatly with his alibi.

Scenario 2: van is parked at Plank Road apartments a couple days before her Dad discovered it on Dec. 16

Scenario 2A Unknown perp somehow manages to get Jenn to stop and let him into her van. He then kills her, undresses her, dumps her body on Center Road and her phone at the bridge, then goes back to the area (probably a seasonal road) where his own vehicle is parked, and leaves Jenn's van there. Then, several days later, he drives Jenn's van to the Plank Road apartments and parks it.
Problems with this scenario: all the same problems mentioned in Scenario 1A above. Plus, there would be the risk of van possibly being noticed by LE or citizens, since missing persons report would have been filed by then, and media reports went out on Dec. 14. Plus, if Jenn's van was parked off some seasonal road between Dec. 11 to 14 (or so), then he would have had to drive out there, leave his own vehicle, drive Jenn's van to the apartments, and then somehow get back to his own vehicle.

Scenario 2B Jenn dies at home. GR takes her in the red van to Center Road and leaves her and disposes of the phone, and then parks Jenn's van somewhere (seasonal road?) and then....somehow gets to the Y. Then, several days later, he goes to wherever he left her van, drives it to the Plank Road apts., and then somehow gets back to his own vehicle or goes to the Y and bums a ride home.
Problems with this scenario are mainly logistics and time: Unless he initially parked Jenn's van relatively close to Norwich, he would not have enough time to dump her body and then get to the Y. And then...he would have to get to where her van was left, leave his own vehicle there, and then somehow get back to his own vehicle and get home. This could have been done if he had an accomplice giving him a ride to where Jenn's van was parked, and then picking him up at the Y. But otherwise, it would have been a little hard. And then, why take the risk of moving the van at that point?

Did we ever determine if her parents had a garage?

2c- She dies at home. Wrapped up and put in van which is hidden near home- maybe her parents garage since they are out of state. Realizing he needs an alibi and to clear his head from what just happened, he runs to Y. Wasn't dressed for a run since it wasn't planned and calls TP for ride....giving his alibi reinforcement. She saw him therefore he couldn't have done anything. :what: the next day he takes her phone to where it w found and calls LE. In the evening sometime before her parents due back he moves the body out to Center Rd muddying up the van- or muddying it before he left to camouflage it. Purge fluid results in blood on the floor (technically it is a bloody nose). Then moves van to the apartments and runs home. All evidence planted. Wonder when the dumpster was taken away....IMO a stranger wouldn't have gone through so much trouble. Jenn would have been found in the van with her cell nearby. :moo::twocents: