Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #10

[nanasbabes]

If i remember right in earlier post and please don't hold me to this but sure it was a verifed person said that people in the apartments new of tenents that had a van that parked in that area and they were going on a vacation so they thought it was them, that they came back early. I wish i could find were i read that. i will look.

Maybe jillian can help me out. They did say it wasn't there all that time, I thought of roads not far from there it could of been parked on that no one really would of questioned it IMO

 

[horsenaround60]

i cant see a killer moveing that can twice?.. you got away once?. it was parked there, and it was not being brought to anyones atention. for a tenate not to call the police, they would have needed to BUY (1) paper on dec 12 0r 13? it wasnt in there everyday. and it was only 3 days...if it got parked on the 11th..... big parking lot, publick housing, why would they notice just another van?

Well, yes, i guess you are right. It does kind of blend in with thousands of others just like it. And the tenants would probably just have thought it was someone visiting.

 

[Jilllian]

Maybe jillian can help me out. They did say it wasn't there all that time, I thought of roads not far from there it could of been parked on that no one really would of questioned it IMO

Some tenants in the complex didn't notice Jen's car right away because another tenant with a similar vehicle usually parked in that spot.

There was also talk about the color. Police calling it "maroon" when tenants saw it as "orange."

Also, it sounded like tenants said the van was there 1-2 days max PRIOR to it being found by Jen's father.

 

[Abigail]

I am very excited by that timeline and flyer on the fb page. They are SO factual but SO informative. Only one wish I would have -that the mention of the possibility of the 'nosebleed' could go in, after the finding of the van. I really like it though. Lots of hard work there, and looking things up.

That sort of listing is close to my heart.....This is a sample of what I've been doing and why I'm getting confuddled. I've got about 10 links in my tool bar at the moment..

Sorting all the media by date, and pulling out relevant quotes to remind us what the article is so we don't have to open link after link, and make it easier for newbies. The more attention, the better. It just takes me ages though - my ipad won't even let me copy and paste a single bit of text.
I thought the link to the media thread could go in some signatures after, to make it easier for people to nip back and find any references.

Date unknown: 'Last seen leaving her residence the morning of December 11th...told her husband she was going to Destiny..'
https://www.facebook.com/chenango.sheriff

December 14th, 2012: '...missing since Tuesday when she told her husband she was driving to Syracuse..'
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2012/12/authorities_say_missing_woman.html

Date unknown: 'Jennifer may have changed her hair color and style prior to leaving on Tuesday'
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...99051391.74183.212865135400495&type=1&theater

December 16th, 2012: 'Vehicle...found in Norwich on Sunday....phone was later recovered in Plymouth on route 23.'
http://cnynews.com/vehicle-of-missing-jennifer-ramsaran-found-in-norwich/

December 17th, 2012: '...was last seen leaving her home Tuesday morning, December 11th...told her husband she was going to Destiny'
http://www.cnycentral.com/news/story.aspx?id=838085#.UVCCUfF5mSN

December 17th, 2012:...'Ramsaran may have changed her hair colour and style before leaving.......her last known hair colour was brown'
http://thedailystar.com/localnews/x1839367823/Deputies-Vehicle-of-missing-woman-found?mobRedir=false

December 18th, 2012:'...Sheriff's Office is carrying out search warrants at the home of Jennifer Ramsaran'....'Monday evening, investigators set up'....'neighbour SS described the 37-year-old Mom of three as quiet. "Well, the Mom we talked to now and then.." '
http://www.wbng.com/home/Police-Search-Around-Home-of-Missing-Woman-183965521.html

28th February 2013:...'I've been totally open and honest with you, and you've treated me like some nitwit....It serves no purpose ever to lie...I teach the kids..'
http://m.thedailystar.com/thedailystar/pm_112947/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=6TBEJ00K

March 8th, 2013:...'Three months after she was reported missing, Jennifer...whose body was located on 26th Feb....official cause of death has yet to be released.'
http://www.evesun.com/news/stories/...waiting-for-autopsy-results-in-Ramsaran-case/

February 4th, 2013: '..it's unfair to the kids, to my in-laws'.......'waiting for forensic evidence to come back'......'GR said; 'Some days I have hope, some days I don't.'
http://www.newschannel34.com/news/local/story/Missing-New-Berlin-Woman/UW5ezlkJSE2naJ0jNIVZwg.cspx

March 3rd, 2013:... 'One of the questions for detectives is whether they believe the 36-year-old-woman, who has three young children in school, would have planned her day to spend three hours of driving alone..'
http://thedailystar.com/reportersno...-report-misses-key-attribution?mobRedir=false

March 26th, 2013: ...'Her body was found off Center Road in Pharsalia on Tuesday..'
http://www.newschannel34.com/news/local/story/Missing-Woman-Identified/gnO1elUg4UiPmcBkrBG4yQ.cspx

Thanks for putting a lot of time-consuming work into doing this -- yes, it does help to have all these media links in chronological order -- :rocker:

 

[nanasbabes]

Some tenants in the complex didn't notice Jen's car right away because another tenant with a similar vehicle usually parked in that spot.

There was also talk about the color. Police calling it "maroon" when tenants saw it as "orange."

Also, it sounded like tenants said the van was there 1-2 days max PRIOR to it being found by Jen's father.

Thank you for your help! :blushing:

 

[Bob's Chicken]

I hope they didn't just think Jennifer was hiding there deliberately. But I fear they could have done.

Storage facilities.

Anyone think any of these are likely to have been places where Jennifer's car could have been stored?

http://www.thestoragecenterllc.com/

There are also two others but I can't post links.

Markham moving and storage, 125 New York 12, Chenango Forks

Afton Self Storage, 37 Academy St, Afton (40 mins drive from Jennifer's house)

I wonder if they have cctv?

Here is boat storage. You could fit a car into a boat unit, couldn't you?

http://www.yellowpages.com/chenango-bridge-ny/boat-storage

Does anyone remember someone here on WS saying that there is a resident's van that lives at the Plank Road apartments that could be mistaken for Jen's -- hence the reason it was not noticed quickly/not reported? I thought someone said that -- but that the van's color was more a rust color vs. Jen's maroon color. Could that be a reason why it did not seem out of the ordinary for someone to report it b/c they were so used to seeing 'a van' parked there normally? ullhair:

Thank you Jillian -- for confirming story of other van and not making me think I was hallucinating! You beat me w/your post...

 

[Abigail]

:cheers: Good thinking!

If Jennifer left the house without her phone, which is possible if she were not alive when she left the house, any LE pinging the phone would locate it at the last place it was before the battery died, or the phone was shut off. It would be incriminating if the last broadcast from the phone was during the day, Dec. 11, on Sheff Road. If the phone were thrown away, the last ping would either (again) be Sheff Road, or the dumpster. The dumpster would indicate the phone was thrown away by someone nearby, (or, if not nearby, would still give some insight into it being deliberately disposed of by someone other than Jennifer) so wouldn't it be better to ditch the phone along the route of the supposed abduction? Then it looks like Jennifer had her phone and she or someone else threw it out the window. The time lapse in locating this phone is significant. It would take some time to position the phone to fit the scenario. I do think this is the one concrete piece of evidence in the case.

 

[Abigail]

GR stated that any attempt for him to call JR on that day went straight to voicemail....so there will be no register on her phone of missed calls...but I assume there will be calls from GR's to hers to set an alibi. (also means her phones was turned off) Also POB said that she was on her gaming sight that morning at 630am so that is the only time that we know of that she was on her phone...other than that it could have been turned off...which of course goes against her seemingly daily routine of going on and off her gaming sight....she doesn't seem like she would have either let her phone battery die or have her phone off if she was that invested in playing her phone game.

:tyou: I've been trying to remember exactly what POB said about that morning, and that 6:30 AM time is QUITE useful.

Say...maybe she was was on playing the game when she first got up for a couple minutes. Then...she's getting the kids' breakfast and getting them off to school...it DOES seem a little odd that if GR did the school run that morning that she didn't use that time to go back on her game...but maybe she got involved in some housekeeping chore, or used that time to get her shower. Hmmm.....shower....body found nude....

Your point about not letting her phone battery die is also good. If she WERE planning to drive 1 1/2 hours to Syracuse and spend a day shopping, she'd probably have made EXTRA sure the phone was well charged.

 

[Ace85FL]

Does anyone remember someone here on WS saying that there is a resident's van that lives at the Plank Road apartments that could be mistaken for Jen's -- hence the reason it was not noticed quickly/not reported? I thought someone said that -- but that the van's color was more a rust color vs. Jen's maroon color. Could that be a reason why it did not seem out of the ordinary for someone to report it b/c they were so used to seeing 'a van' parked there normally? ullhair:

:waitasec:

That may have been me.

Before I was a member of the forum, I had been reading along and following, and I had left comments on OffRoadRunner's Center Road YouTube video under my "4nonL33ters" handle on there.

I had posed a series of questions in the comments section of that video giving possibilities.

The second question I had posed there was this...

4nonL33ters

2) at the Plank Manor Road Apartments, as you pull into the parking lot 18:29 , there is a maroon van there that looks similar to the kind that was found there on the 16th of December. Is it possible that this site was chosen because of a resident or visitor with a maroon van lives there or frequently visits there? If so, then this place may have been chose because of that. A maroon van that's there, probably wouldn't raise suspicion if it's common to see one there.

I hope this is what you're referring to

 

[Abigail]

My initial question:

• When was the van abandoned at Plank Road Manor?

It is a possibility to consider that the van was there since the 11th.

However, the residents at Plank Road Manor have said that the van was there for no more than one or two days (two days at the maximum). Whether that is one or two days including the day it was found on the 16th, or one or two days prior to when it was discovered on the 16th is a matter up for debate.

"....People claim that the van was there for 2 days max....I wonder how positive they are about that statement."

Option 2: Sometime after December 11, but where was it before? And, since word was now out of a missing woman, why take the risk of moving it to a rather public location?

The first question posed, is actually the second question I posed on my list of questions:

• Where could the van have been hidden, prior to it being abandoned at Plank Road Manor?

So I think we're on the same page in regards to that question.

The answer to that, is we don't know.

As for the second question about taking the risk to move it... one has to consider when the public came to knowledge of Jennifer's disappearance, and whether there was time to have moved the van to Plank Road Manor sometime after that.

December 11th, 2012
Jennifer disappears

December 12th, 2012
Jennifer's phone is discovered at the Moon Hill Road/SR-23 intersection by her husband.

8:39 PM - December 13th, 2012
The Chenango County Sheriff's Department issues the first missing person's statement in regard to Jennifer's disappearance, via their Facebook Page (link below).

Chenango County Sheriff's Department Missing Person's Report

December 13th and 14th, 2012
Local Media Outlets (MSM) begin to spread the Chenango County Sheriff's Missing Person's Report to the greater public later in the evening of December 13th (via evening newscasts and online press statements), and in the morning newspapers and electronic media of December 14th.

According to her father, the van was covered in an unusual amount of mud[/I].

The mud can indicate two things...

1) The van was driven down a muddy road somewhere, possibly Coy Street or another dirt road, in the vicinity of where Jennifer's body would eventually be found.

2) The van was intentionally covered in mud, possibly caking the plates (Note: New York State has front and back license plates) with mud, and trying to blot out or conceal the color of the van, making it look like one had been "mudding" or off-road riding, when in fact concealing it for a short time.

It could also serve in the purpose of masking it to drive to the ditching point at Plank Road Manor.

More likely than not, the cover of darkness may have been utilized as well. One would be less likely to be pulled over for an obscured license plate, considering that LE in that area aren't heavily staffed, nor are they as heavily active at night as they are in the day.

The speed trap in the park across from Plank Road Manor possibly wouldn't have been manned at that time of the month either. They tend to be active there towards the end of a month.

The fact that it was Jennifer's father who found her van seems to indicate that at that time, LE had nothing more to go on, save for the phone that GR had found (possibly) at the Moon Hill Road/SR-23 Intersection.

It could also possibly indicate that a search hadn't been mounted right away. This could possibly be due to the statement about her potentially dying her hair and changing it. That could possibly have indicated the potentiality that she had altered her appearance so as not to be recognized in the course of disappearing, and thus may have assumed that she may had long since left the area.

The first active search by LE (named in the media as taking place), occurred when a search warrant was issued on the 18th of December, to search the premises of the Ramsaran residence. (two days after her van had been discovered)

If we factor all of it together... there seems to have been a lot of time there for one to get rid of possible evidence.

What irritates me most about it all... we just don't know at this time :banghead:

Sorry for the length, mods :blushing:

Excellent points...I snipped a little to focus more on the ones that caught my attention.

First, how SURE were the residents that the van hadn't been there all along? It seems that in an apartment complex people would be coming and going a bit, and, with, say, 30 apartments in that complex, and, assuming that some of the apartments would have 2 adults, that could be as many as 40 or 50 vehicles parked there (although in ORR's video and also in a news footage, there were only about 12 or so cars parked there in the daytime, indicating most folks were at work...or perhaps some of the residents don't own cars.

Anyway...lets say there's 30 or so adults that do drive and that do live in that complex...well, people change cars...they buy new ones. And...single people engage in new relationships, so there might be a new bf or gf who moves in and then there's a new car. And, people come to visit, and some might stay for a few days. So......how much would you really notice if a new vehicle were parked there? I kind of think I wouldn't notice unless the vehicle were parked in the spot that I liked to park myself. Or...if the same vehicle were parked in the same spot and didn't get moved for 4 or 5 days -- that would strike me as odd. I might not notice at first, but then if it were in the daytime and everyone else has left for work except for the handful of retirees and Moms with little kids, then I might happen to notice it .

You've a good point about the gap of 2 days between when Jenn went missing and when the missing person report was released. However, would the perp have anticipated this gap of time? I think it's usual that one has to wait 24 (or is it 48?) hours before one is allowed to file a missing person report on an adult?

Her folks were in Arizona -- don't know how long it took them to get back to NY, but I rather think they flew (because at some point they returned to Arizona, and then headed back to NY in their 5th wheel -- accdg to Carol's FB). But even with flying, they probably didn't get there until maybe late on Dec. 12 at the earliest, and more likely the 13th (just thinking about having to book flights, and make arrangements for the dog and all that sort of thing).

I never considered that the mud might have been used to conceal. Good thought there...as I recall, it was rainy on Dec. 11, but then, no rain or snow for about a week.

Also...good thought about police not being parked across the street that time of the month.

 

[nursebeeme]

has anyone tried to find out if there is a HOLD placed on the autopsy results? I ask this because they are public record and often times in other cases that I have followed LE will apply for a hold on release if they are awaiting something (re: tox reports in this case specifically)

I wonder if reporter JM has delved into this??

has anyone been in touch with the reporter to see if he is working the follow up?

???

A good investigative reporter will be the wheel to motion hands down.

 

[Abigail]

so at this point only jennifers family is seeking infromation?

what was the ccs last satement?

how many articals has the local county paper (the evening sun) wrote in total?
the daily star is as good as miles away .locals read only the home town trash

who is keeping this issue alive in the public? just jenns family?

dont you think if LE had something, (anything) he would have been arrested?

i will tell you all this is falling of the radar localy!!!!!
and you do not want to here my prediction of what will be the close of this case. but if that tox reprot comes back cleean ....... .

and by the way i am boy cotting the local home town trash untill they print a comprehenisive artical about jennifer ramsarn. they or the sherrifs never told me or my community she was sunday school teacher/girl scout leader.....nore did they tell us about his trist..notrhing that would have brought jennifer justice

.......im boycoting that rag

You're correct that the locals would only be reading the Evening Sun -- that's EXACTLY what my friend (who lives nearby and was the one who alerted me to the case) said. In fact, I heard about Jenn's body being found before she did!! Something about it being the Evening Sun but she didn't get it until the next morning??

If defense of the local media and sherriff -- the only info they had to work with is what was given them -- and the only people who seemed to have stepped forward and make remarks in the beginning were GR and an old college buddy of GR's from Arizona, and an "anonymous" family friend.

 

[Foxfire]

'Cutting said there are dozens of leads to follow...'

http://www.wbng.com/home/Police-Search-Around-Home-of-Missing-Woman-183965521.html

This is good, to me. The Sheriff's Office has something, and they are working on it. It takes a long time to follow-up properly but I am wishing them every success, because that's how Jennifer's case will be solved, imo.

I can only hope all the people they have spoken to have done the right thing and told LE any and everything they knew. If they have not.....now is the time to come forward.

From above linked article:
RE: Cutting said there are dozens of leads to follow. And as the investigation goes on, their work could become more complex.
"The more bases you cover," he said, "The more things you're gonna look at, and the more ground we're going to cover."
The Sheriff's Office said the key at this point is to reach out to anyone who knows Ramsaran or where she might go.

Imo, Chenango County Sheriff Cutter has done everything but reaching out for the public's help in the Jennifer Ramsaran investigation. He is very arrogant imo.. He refuses to update the community regarding the progress of the investigation and actually squandered this valuable resource in the first six weeks in the search for Jennifer Ramsaran. Sheriff Cutter obviously has no PIO or media management policy in place. Unless of course, silence is a media management strategy. After four months, I am still patiently waiting on the first press conference to be held in the Jennifer Ramsaran investigation...

I have followed many missing persons cases, but this is the only case in my memory where the public was discouraged to participate in a search for the innocent victim. Couple this with the misinformation allowed to be disseminated in the ms media by CC Sheriff Cutter, including the berating & demonizing of the innocent victim and the lack of transparency. Imo, the honorable CC Sheriff Cutter, needs to be put out to pasture...

 

[momrids6]

First, how SURE were the residents that the van hadn't been there all along? It seems that in an apartment complex people would be coming and going a bit, and, with, say, 30 apartments in that complex, and, assuming that some of the apartments would have 2 adults, that could be as many as 40 or 50 vehicles parked there (although in ORR's video and also in a news footage, there were only about 12 or so cars parked there in the daytime, indicating most folks were at work...or perhaps some of the residents don't own cars.

Anyway...lets say there's 30 or so adults that do drive and that do live in that complex...well, people change cars...they buy new ones. And...single people engage in new relationships, so there might be a new bf or gf who moves in and then there's a new car. And, people come to visit, and some might stay for a few days. So......how much would you really notice if a new vehicle were parked there? I kind of think I wouldn't notice unless the vehicle were parked in the spot that I liked to park myself. Or...if the same vehicle were parked in the same spot and didn't get moved for 4 or 5 days -- that would strike me as odd. I might not notice at first, but then if it were in the daytime and everyone else has left for work except for the handful of retirees and Moms with little kids, then I might happen to notice it .

.

If you read the previous threads, it is a Senior Citizens Housing Complex.
Jen's van is not maroon any longer- between fading due to age, mud, and salt spray, it looked more orange than the stated color. The van was parked in someone's usual spot... they know how long they were inconvenienced.

cguru:

 

[nursebeeme]

has anyone been in touch with the reporter to see if he is working the follow up?

???

A good investigative reporter will be the wheel to motion hands down.

not to quote my own self here but just emphasizing for sleuthing purposes: I am surmising that JM dug into this story from an outcry of the public.. and now that he as posted those few articles there has been nothing else from him.. I think asking him to delve further into what is going on and what CAN be released could give us some new information. Sometimes you only get what you ask for.. especially in this case, **I would think** :twocents:

 

[LolaAngelina]

not to quote my own self here but just emphasizing for sleuthing purposes: I am surmising that JM dug into this story from an outcry of the public.. and now that he as posted those few articles there has been nothing else from him.. I think asking him to delve further into what is going on and what CAN be released could give us some new information. Sometimes you only get what you ask for.. especially in this case, **I would think** :twocents:

I think he maybe away on leave at the moment Nurse

 

[Abigail]

Some tenants in the complex didn't notice Jen's car right away because another tenant with a similar vehicle usually parked in that spot.

There was also talk about the color. Police calling it "maroon" when tenants saw it as "orange."

Also, it sounded like tenants said the van was there 1-2 days max PRIOR to it being found by Jen's father.

Maybe "orange" because of the mud??

But could certainly see how it could be missed if another tenant had a similar vehicle.

 

[Jilllian]

You're correct that the locals would only be reading the Evening Sun -- that's EXACTLY what my friend (who lives nearby and was the one who alerted me to the case) said. In fact, I heard about Jenn's body being found before she did!! Something about it being the Evening Sun but she didn't get it until the next morning??

If defense of the local media and sherriff -- the only info they had to work with is what was given them -- and the only people who seemed to have stepped forward and make remarks in the beginning were GR and an old college buddy of GR's from Arizona, and an "anonymous" family friend.

BBM

Locals only read the Evening Sun?

 

[Jilllian]

Maybe "orange" because of the mud??

But could certainly see how it could be missed if another tenant had a similar vehicle.

"Orange" because it's the color of the van.

 

[momrids6]

Maybe "orange" because of the mud??

But could certainly see how it could be missed if another tenant had a similar vehicle.

guess you don't hang out with a group of seniors who have lived in the same complex for years together and are home most of the time. The person that parks in that spot is the one with a similar van- and I am sure she asked all her neighbors who the heck was in her spot... I was raised by senior ladies- they could all work for the FBI


:facepalm: