Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #10

[zwiebel]

Patricia Wiltshire is the lady whose name I have been trying to remember for ages. She could tell LE exactly where that grass came from, I bet. Read about what she found in the case below. She obtained an exact match to the murder site from pollen on a killer's shoes, and tyres, and found the path he walked from new shoots on nettles.

I suppose bringing in someone from across the waters would be too expensive - but I wonder if she has an equivalent colleague in the US? I haven't been able to find a US case featuring a botanist yet.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/jan/10/gender.uk

 

[horsenaround60]

The van looks to me as if it were driven into a field or a grassy tractor road through a field. The clumps of grassy mud on the wheel wells in the front and the back would account for that. Wasnt it said recently that LE was out on Rt 23 searching in a field and alongside the road? But why would someone go in a field? I wish we knew more, my mind is spinning with all kinds of scenarios. Nothing makes sense!

 

[marlywings]

Patricia Wiltshire is the lady whose name I have been trying to remember for ages. She could tell LE exactly where that grass came from, I bet. Read about what she found in the case below. She obtained an exact match to the murder site from pollen on a killer's shoes, and tyres, and found the path he walked from new shoots on nettles.

I suppose bringing in someone from across the waters would be too expensive - but I wonder if she has an equivalent colleague in the US? I haven't been able to find a US case featuring a botanist yet.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/jan/10/gender.uk

One case that comes to mind is the Caylee Anthony case in which a forensic botanist was used. I recall her talking about leaf litter & the roots of plants in the area where Caylee's body was found.

A botanist was also called up to identify plant material found in Allison Baden Clay's hair & clothing.

All up I think there'd be quite a few forensic botanists that LE would be able to use to identify plant material if it was found on Jennifer's car. If the botanists aren't close by the material would be sent on to them.

Or, as in one case in Aus a few years back, a forensic botanist was brought over from west side of the country to the east just to identify pollen from a flower found in a murdered woman's car. The identification of that one flower led to the arrest of the woman's killer.

 

[Abigail]

One case that comes to mind is the Caylee Anthony case in which a forensic botanist was used. I recall her talking about leaf litter & the roots of plants in the area where Caylee's body was found.

A botanist was also called up to identify plant material found in Allison Baden Clay's hair & clothing.

All up I think there'd be quite a few forensic botanists that LE would be able to use to identify plant material if it was found on Jennifer's car. If the botanists aren't close by the material would be sent on to them.

Or, as in one case in Aus a few years back, a forensic botanist was brought over from west side of the country to the east just to identify pollen from a flower found in a murdered woman's car. The identification of that one flower led to the arrest of the woman's killer.

Good points! Could that be why the usual 4 to 6 weeks for autopsy/toxicology/COD report has been extended a bit?

 

[marlywings]

If anyone would like to read about the Aus forensic botanist,Dr Lynne Milne, & the case I mentioned in previous post.

An extract from a program that did an interview with her....

Usually in 70 to 80 per cent of cases where women are murdered, they're murdered by a close family member usually a partner or an ex-partner. So Michael Bodsworth who was Samantha's de facto and father of her two children, was the prime suspect.

And it appears that Michael Bodsworth murdered Samantha in her own home and drove, cleaned her up, dressed her and then drove her body up to Noosa and deposited it there.

But it seems that he tried to um mask what he was doing in the sense that he drove round town with Samantha strapped into the front seat.

He cleaned up the mess, and um yeah he I believe he basically planned everything and thought that he was committing the perfect murder.

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2005/s1443600.htm

 

[marlywings]

Good points! Could that be why the usual 4 to 6 weeks for autopsy/toxicology/COD report has been extended a bit?

It could very well be the case. Depending on what they're looking for or at...some of the forensic work can take absolute months.

Then there's phone records, computer tests, accounting....in Allison's case the forensic accountant's work alone took something like three or four months.

 

[momrids6]

Imo, we are looking for a narcissist>

Defence sequences

The narcissist typically runs through a sequence of defenses to discharge painful feelings until he or she finds one that works;

unconscious repression

conscious denial

distortion (including exaggeration and minimization) and lies

psychological projection (blaming somebody else)

enlisting the help of one or more of his or her codependent friends who will support his or her distorted view.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissistic_defences

 

[zwiebel]

If anyone would like to read about the Aus forensic botanist,Dr Lynne Milne, & the case I mentioned in previous post.

An extract from a program that did an interview with her....

Usually in 70 to 80 per cent of cases where women are murdered, they're murdered by a close family member usually a partner or an ex-partner. So Michael Bodsworth who was Samantha's de facto and father of her two children, was the prime suspect.

And it appears that Michael Bodsworth murdered Samantha in her own home and drove, cleaned her up, dressed her and then drove her body up to Noosa and deposited it there.

But it seems that he tried to um mask what he was doing in the sense that he drove round town with Samantha strapped into the front seat.

He cleaned up the mess, and um yeah he I believe he basically planned everything and thought that he was committing the perfect murder.

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2005/s1443600.htm

That's a fascinating interview. I couldn't help noticing that Dr Milne says, "I just really love rocks".
I wonder what on earth she would make of 'the rock' in Jennifer's case?

 

[SouthAussie]

The van looks to me as if it were driven into a field or a grassy tractor road through a field. The clumps of grassy mud on the wheel wells in the front and the back would account for that. Wasnt it said recently that LE was out on Rt 23 searching in a field and alongside the road? But why would someone go in a field? I wish we knew more, my mind is spinning with all kinds of scenarios. Nothing makes sense!

BBM

I agree, nothing makes sense in this case ..

If Jen was a victim of a sex offender, she would have been found half-clothed near her van and belongings – or her van would be long-gone and we’d be lucky to find Jen.

If Jen was a victim of a planned attack, the attacker miraculously managed to grab her when she was doing something outside of her normal routine … she didn’t go to Destiny every Tuesday at 10:30am.

If Jen was a victim of a robbery/random attack, she would have been found in or near her van, or she would have been found elsewhere and her van would be long-gone.

(Of course there are variations to all of the above, but you get my drift.)

I just can’t see these types of killers saying ‘oh, I’ll put Jen’s van here, and Jen’s phone here, and Jen herself here .. that way they’ll never guess it was me’,
'oh, and I might take her clothes and shoes with me'

 

[marlywings]

That's a fascinating interview. I couldn't help noticing that Dr Milne says, "I just really love rocks".
I wonder what on earth she would make of 'the rock' in Jennifer's case?

Ahhh but she would have to send the precious little rock off to a forensic geologist for testing....who would also test the mud, soil etc found on Jennifer's car. They would be able to pinpoint the exact location where all of that came from.

Forensic Geologist

Crime Scene Investigation

http://www.geoforensics.com/geoforensics/art-1101a.html

 

[cluciano63]

How far was the phone from where Jennifer was found, again?

 

[zwiebel]

I can't find the posts with the exact distance at the moment. I know there are some. Here is a map with locations though.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 *media maps & timelines*

 

[Abigail]

If anyone would like to read about the Aus forensic botanist,Dr Lynne Milne, & the case I mentioned in previous post.

An extract from a program that did an interview with her....

Usually in 70 to 80 per cent of cases where women are murdered, they're murdered by a close family member usually a partner or an ex-partner. So Michael Bodsworth who was Samantha's de facto and father of her two children, was the prime suspect.

And it appears that Michael Bodsworth murdered Samantha in her own home and drove, cleaned her up, dressed her and then drove her body up to Noosa and deposited it there.

But it seems that he tried to um mask what he was doing in the sense that he drove round town with Samantha strapped into the front seat.

He cleaned up the mess, and um yeah he I believe he basically planned everything and thought that he was committing the perfect murder.

http://www.abc.net.au/austory/content/2005/s1443600.htm

Fascinating read. I liked the part about how it was discovered she never left the home alive because she wasn't wearing her makeup. It's little clues like that which sometimes crack a case...something someone would always wear...would never leave home without...

 

[Abigail]

BBM

I agree, nothing makes sense in this case ..

If Jen was a victim of a sex offender, she would have been found half-clothed near her van and belongings – or her van would be long-gone and we’d be lucky to find Jen.

If Jen was a victim of a planned attack, the attacker miraculously managed to grab her when she was doing something outside of her normal routine … she didn’t go to Destiny every Tuesday at 10:30am.

If Jen was a victim of a robbery/random attack, she would have been found in or near her van, or she would have been found elsewhere and her van would be long-gone.

(Of course there are variations to all of the above, but you get my drift.)

I just can’t see these types of killers saying ‘oh, I’ll put Jen’s van here, and Jen’s phone here, and Jen herself here .. that way they’ll never guess it was me’,
'oh, and I might take her clothes and shoes with me'

:goodpost:

 

[momrids6]

Fascinating read. I liked the part about how it was discovered she never left the home alive because she wasn't wearing her makeup. It's little clues like that which sometimes crack a case...something someone would always wear...would never leave home without...

And there are some items some people never take off- such as their wedding rings, and/or earrings.

Many women leave a particular set of earrings in 99% of the time...

 

[Abigail]

How far was the phone from where Jennifer was found, again?

Jen's phone was found by the bridge over the creek on 23, near the sand pile and close to Moon Hill Road. From that point to the intersection with Center Road is 3 miles. I'm not sure how far down Center Road she was left -- will have to go back and see if someone posted that on a map somewhere.

 

[Abigail]

And there are some items some people never take off- such as their wedding rings, and/or earrings.

Many women leave a particular set of earrings in 99% of the time...

In addition to my wedding ring and favorite earrings, I always wear my watch and contacts.

 

[Abigail]

How far was the phone from where Jennifer was found, again?

Here's a map that Enzeder posted on the Media & Maps thread for distance between phone and body
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=30921&d=1363600569

It looks like a little less than 4 miles

 

[cjwoods]

I'm not local but I find it very troubling the police did not release to the press the photo of her minivan, the map and additional details to get leads. I'm praying they have so much more evidence. Not printing information in local papers makes me think the media pressured them to maybe say something and they basically release the color of her minivan and thats it. They did not even say the manufactures real color or release any photos. I feel like if they put out more information they would get more leads. I'm sad and frustrated for the locals and her family! I think a true press release would be really good about this time .... how long are local people supposed to worry about their safety. Who ever did this is not of sound mind!

I did not think the ccs relase was anymore than a bad attempt, to appease a online community, and a small group pushing for ccs to do ANYTHING.
id like to think they have much more evidence aswel , but from my own experience with ccs, in my heart I know they dont.
I think she was most likely killed possible from a pressure point move. Like the ones not allowed in mma fighting, for obvious reasons. So again I think the tox wont of be any help
They should put a local release out, asking for fishermen, hunters and hikers, farmers, to be on the look out, for missing items

 

[nanasbabes]

One case that comes to mind is the Caylee Anthony case in which a forensic botanist was used. I recall her talking about leaf litter & the roots of plants in the area where Caylee's body was found.

A botanist was also called up to identify plant material found in Allison Baden Clay's hair & clothing.

All up I think there'd be quite a few forensic botanists that LE would be able to use to identify plant material if it was found on Jennifer's car. If the botanists aren't close by the material would be sent on to them.

Or, as in one case in Aus a few years back, a forensic botanist was brought over from west side of the country to the east just to identify pollen from a flower found in a murdered woman's car. The identification of that one flower led to the arrest of the woman's killer.

I did want to comment on this, as a past case in chenango county they did find birdox from the home of the Guilford woman. They found it on her body and tested to see if it came from the area of the lake she was in and also the home of hers. CCS did determine it was from her home so i hope they have the same people helping in this case! This is the case of a husband that is in prison now, but has appealed his case 3 times already. I'm hoping thats why CCS is holding back information and taking there time on Jenn's case.