Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #10

[nanasbabes]

Yes, i guess it would make sense to dispose of the body away from their own residence, but why on Center Rd. where there are homes nearby and obviously children living nearby too as evidenced by the school bus in the video by ORR. It seems to me that whoever did this would have dumped her far out into the state woods where she wouldnt have been found for a long time, if ever. It doesnt make sense to me either that her van was found right out in the open, in town. It would seem that whoever did this would have abandoned it way out in the boonies on a dirt road or stuck it in an old abandoned barn or at least hidden in thick woods.

Not unless there is a reason like ins. money they needed her to be found

 

[sleepinoz]

Yes, i guess it would make sense to dispose of the body away from their own residence, but why on Center Rd. where there are homes nearby and obviously children living nearby too as evidenced by the school bus in the video by ORR. It seems to me that whoever did this would have dumped her far out into the state woods where she wouldnt have been found for a long time, if ever. It doesnt make sense to me either that her van was found right out in the open, in town. It would seem that whoever did this would have abandoned it way out in the boonies on a dirt road or stuck it in an old abandoned barn or at least hidden in thick woods.

I imagine leaving the van with the keys in it somewhere visible, they were hoping it would be stolen. And the closeness to the Y was also important for a quick getaway IMO

 

[cluciano63]

Not unless there is a reason like ins. money they needed her to be found

But she was only found by chance and could have remained hidden much longer. Why not leave her in her van? That would make the most sense, if someone attacked her, IMO.

 

[Abigail]

Yes, i guess it would make sense to dispose of the body away from their own residence, but why on Center Rd. where there are homes nearby and obviously children living nearby too as evidenced by the school bus in the video by ORR. It seems to me that whoever did this would have dumped her far out into the state woods where she wouldnt have been found for a long time, if ever. It doesnt make sense to me either that her van was found right out in the open, in town. It would seem that whoever did this would have abandoned it way out in the boonies on a dirt road or stuck it in an old abandoned barn or at least hidden in thick woods.

Well...there may have been a time element involved...perhaps not enough time to drive further away, if, say, the perp was supposed to be at work, or was attempting to build an alibi. And...it had been raining the previous day or two...perhaps the secondary roads that are more remote were too muddy to get down.

Perhaps the perp was familiar with Center Road -- knew where the school bus turned around (just before where her body was found), so no kids further up the way there?

I also tend to agree that the original intent was for the body to be found. The perp found a remote enough location to quickly roll her body out of the van and down the embankment without being seen disposing of her, but near enough to civilization that she'd probably eventually be found. I suspect that in the beginning, the perp may have wanted her found fairly quickly, but later, realized that it was to his advantage for the elements and natural decay to remove any lingering evidence.

As far as where the van was found:
1) Sometimes the best place to hide something is in plain view. Or perhaps the perp didn't want to "hide" the van...just discard it...maybe he chose that location on purpose, knowing that it would probably be noticed quickly by LE (since they parked across the street) -- this would tie in with wanting the body to be found quickly.

2) There's also the problem of logistics. Sure, one could take that van out to some remote location, but then, how would one get from that remote location back to one's own vehicle or home??

3) Those apartments may have also been chosen because they are low-income, and have a bit of a reputation. Perhaps the perp wanted to cast suspicion on one of the "shady characters" living there?

 

[Hexe]

I also tend to agree that the original intent was for the body to be found. The perp found a remote enough location to quickly roll her body out of the van and down the embankment without being seen disposing of her, but near enough to civilization that she'd probably eventually be found. I suspect that in the beginning, the perp may have wanted her found fairly quickly, but later, realized that it was to his advantage for the elements and natural decay to remove any lingering evidence.

If the perp knew the area he might possibly think that Jen's body, buried under the snow by the plows passing by, won't be found until spring.

As far as where the van was found:
1) Sometimes the best place to hide something is in plain view. Or perhaps the perp didn't want to "hide" the van...just discard it...maybe he chose that location on purpose, knowing that it would probably be noticed quickly by LE (since they parked across the street) -- this would tie in with wanting the body to be found quickly.

Or he thought they won't notice it, as they were looking for a maroon car, not the orange hued one.

2) There's also the problem of logistics. Sure, one could take that van out to some remote location, but then, how would one get from that remote location back to one's own vehicle or home??

Excellent point.

3) Those apartments may have also been chosen because they are low-income, and have a bit of a reputation. Perhaps the perp wanted to cast suspicion on one of the "shady characters" living there?

That's what I think. Police was looking for a maroon car, right? So the orange one could be parked there, unnoticed by LE, for long enough to attract some thieves, and be stolen, what would create a bunch of false leads and false evidence pointing AWAY from the real perp.

 

[zwiebel]

Of course, we all know there is an unsolved murder in Pharsalia, which some say was a drug crime, but just for the sake of thinking outside the box, what if she met up with whoever it was that killed Tom Francisco in 1999? Who knows who it was that shot him or where the person might be today? Could she have unknowingly befriended this person? Its just a strange coincidence to me that there was an unsolved murder that happened just a few miles up the road from where her body, phone and van were found, that i cant help but think there may be a connection between the two. Maybe im way out there thinking this but i suppose it could be possible. What i dont understand is if the crime took place at her home then why whoever did this to Jenn, would have taken her body so far away from where she lived, and run the risk of being seen with her body in the van, when there are many other places that they could have gotten rid of her body nearby her home. Thats what makes me think the crime took place near where she was found, if indeed it was a homicide, of which we dont know yet for sure.

Apart from the circumstances of Jennifer's death, I think the fact that the detective who is dealing with the homicide you mentioned above, is also dealing with Jennifer's case.......well, LE have got to be treating Jennifer's death as a homicide, surely? Maybe it is because I've had no police/medical training, but for the life of me I can't see how it could be anything but a homicide...

I know LE haven't announced anything publically about their investigation, but that just seems to be the way this particular Sheriff's office handled things. I do wish they would be a little more pro-active on the media front now, when information and tips are so desperately needed. It just seems to me that avenues of discussion about Jennifer are slowly closing down; her husband no longer gives interviews, most of her other family members don't appear to be doing so either; there is no missing person's/victim's organisation taking up her cause now, and both the media and Jennifer's supporters seem to be stuck in a kind of limbo, waiting for a COD before they can really ask hard questions about what happened to her.

This is most definitely not intended to be critical of Jennifer's loved ones or supporters. It just looks to me like there has been a perfect storm of conditions that have come together, and it's led to an impasse. Some of it is just bad luck. But in my own opinion, I really get the feeling there may be someone who has helped manipulate that impasse into place, and the only person I can think of who would benefit from that, is the person who had something to do with Jennifer's death.

 

[SoSueMe]

Thank you Mods for keeping us in line. I know we all appreciate the challenges that are presented by this case. I noticed I was kindly assisted in the editing process, as two of my recent postings were deleted. I understand the first one, because we were told, after I posted it, that it was off-limits. And since that was the first time I'd mentioned that, I don't have to worry about going back and editing that topic out of previous posts. The other posting...not quite sure what my error was...so...can I just clarify...in case I need to go back and edit other postings...are we pretty much working with the same ground rules that have been here all along (and the new no-no's that have been spelled out to us recently)?:gomods:

Abigail, just to clarify, you were linking to some online news articles. The link was not main stream media (MSM) by our standards.

 

[upstate]

I am to assume mine are all gone. The mods did great here with assisting with my boo boos. If I missed one, let me know

 

[cjwoods]

Is everyone aware that last weeks ccs release was not released via the evening sun print edition. So if one dont buy papers from out of the area or read about this online, they didnt get the info

 

[dansmom]

But she was only found by chance and could have remained hidden much longer. Why not leave her in her van? That would make the most sense, if someone attacked her, IMO.

Unless someone needed the van back.

 

[upstate]

Is everyone aware that last weeks ccs release was not released via the evening sun print edition. So if one dont buy papers from out of the area or read about this online, they didnt get the info

True!

 

[LL8511]

Is everyone aware that last weeks ccs release was not released via the evening sun print edition. So if one dont buy papers from out of the area or read about this online, they didnt get the info

I'm not local but I find it very troubling the police did not release to the press the photo of her minivan, the map and additional details to get leads. I'm praying they have so much more evidence. Not printing information in local papers makes me think the media pressured them to maybe say something and they basically release the color of her minivan and thats it. They did not even say the manufactures real color or release any photos. I feel like if they put out more information they would get more leads. I'm sad and frustrated for the locals and her family! I think a true press release would be really good about this time .... how long are local people supposed to worry about their safety. Who ever did this is not of sound mind!

 

[LivingJuicy]

Just curious..

If Jennifer was a victim of a sexually fueled attack, would it have already been released that it was in fact "sexual?" I haven't heard so I'm assuming that there was no rape nor obvious trauma. So what type of perp kills someone, but doesn't rob them, leaves a naked body but doesn't rape them?

It all seems so staged. Let me make it appear that it was random, etc.

Thinking of Jennifer. Shared her story with my mom today and still sporting a justice for Jennifer bumper sticker!

 

[Wolf Dreamer]

I suspect that in the beginning, the perp may have wanted her found fairly quickly, but later, realized that it was to his advantage for the elements and natural decay to remove any lingering evidence.

This is what I've been turning over in my mind recently, that Jen was meant to be located reasonably quickly, for a variety of reasons.

Nothing about this feels like it was done in anger or panic. If there's no visible trauma and COD is still unknown, the killer didn't lash out, Jen didn't fight back. Nor, presumably, was she restrained, strangled or drowned. So it feels like the location was chosen.. not to be found immediately but assuming the killer was local, they could well have known the owner patrolled his area regularly.

 

[upstate]

We went out yesterday and found that mud patterns found on Jennifer's van are as similar to a normal pattern would be expected. Assuming her van is front wheel drive - although, to my very surprise, the patterns were very similar on front wheel, rear wheel, all wheel and 4 wheel (not in 4 wheel at the time, so just rear wheel) I expected HUGE differences and there weren't any. The front was clean from the drizzle of rain, I suspect? The point being, IMO the mud doesn't seem to be in any suspicious pattern on the day it was found.

HOWEVER, the grass in the wheel well is a different story. I wonder where it came from?

 

[Abigail]

Is everyone aware that last weeks ccs release was not released via the evening sun print edition. So if one dont buy papers from out of the area or read about this online, they didnt get the info

GGRRR:furious:

Can't help but wonder what ground shaking news the Evening Sun DID put in their print edition that took precedence over the suspicious death of a devoted mother and Sunday School teacher???

Once again, the Evening Sun is doing nothing to get awareness out to locals that need to be aware.

 

[Abigail]

We went out yesterday and found that mud patterns found on Jennifer's van are as similar to a normal pattern would be expected. Assuming her van is front wheel drive - although, to my very surprise, the patterns were very similar on front wheel, rear wheel, all wheel and 4 wheel (not in 4 wheel at the time, so just rear wheel) I expected HUGE differences and there weren't any. The front was clean from the drizzle of rain, I suspect? The point being, IMO the mud doesn't seem to be in any suspicious pattern on the day it was found.

HOWEVER, the grass in the wheel well is a different story. I wonder where it came from?

Thanks Upstate for going out and experimenting!!

The grass was in the right rear wheel -- right?? When there is not snow on the ground, is there tall grass on the side of Center Road (in the early winter)? If the van pulled over to the right side of the road, could it catch some grass there?

 

[upstate]

Thanks Upstate for going out and experimenting!!

The grass was in the right rear wheel -- right?? When there is not snow on the ground, is there tall grass on the side of Center Road (in the early winter)? If the van pulled over to the right side of the road, could it catch some grass there?

I guess in some areas, but on Center rd. more like leafy mud and pine needles. Some lawns and some tall grass on some of the trails.

I'm sorry, this just doesn't make sense. I had Center rd on my brain. Yes, grassy areas everywhere . Even across the street from Plank rd. Manor. A lot of tall grass. I can't see the grass that well in the picture from the day it was found. Rear wheel would make me think a long drive down a grassy area, but I was wrong about the mud patterns until we tested it out.

 

[Abigail]

I guess in some areas, but on Center rd. more like leafy mud and pine needles. Some lawns and some tall grass on some of the trails.

I'm sorry, this just doesn't make sense. I had Center rd on my brain. Yes, grassy areas everywhere . Even across the street from Plank rd. Manor. A lot of tall grass. I can't see the grass that well in the picture from the day it was found. Rear wheel would make me think a long drive down a grassy area, but I was wrong about the mud patterns until we tested it out.

No..you got it right...I was talking about pulling over on Center Road. If that would have caught some grass in the wheel.

Hmmm...wonder about someone's yard? If...say...she died inside a residence...and if...say...the van was pulled up close to one of the doors to transport her body from inside to the van without being noticed...would driving across the yard...maybe a little bit into a flower bed...pick up some grass?

 

[upstate]

No..you got it right...I was talking about pulling over on Center Road. If that would have caught some grass in the wheel.

Hmmm...wonder about someone's yard? If...say...she died inside a residence...and if...say...the van was pulled up close to one of the doors to transport her body from inside to the van without being noticed...would driving across the yard...maybe a little bit into a flower bed...pick up some grass?

Hard to say. I bet hard to prove if the van went across grass at the home address. Tall grass is everywhere sporadically on every road. I drove up that path that runs alongside the wooded area behind the baseball field across from the apartments when I was a kid. It is used by runners as a course for cross country track and is mowed in areas, but a lot of tall grassy areas as well.

Hoping LE took a good look at the van after finding the blood in it and did the appropriate tests. I guess that is a good question as we all hope they did.

If it is grass from their own sheff rd.it won't tell them much.

Hope trucking trail grass would test different than Sheff rd or the baseball field