Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #11

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It is pretty obvious to me that at some point, Jennifer was being driven in her car, rather than driving it herself.

So isn't it about time a call went out for sightings of someone who was not Jennifer driving her car?

Jennifer had shoulder-length, shiny brown hair and a pretty, heart-shaped face. She was well-shaped. Easy to spot. But imagine if people had seen a car that was orange-red color being driven by a man, for instance, or a skinny person with cropped hair or something.....why would they come forward then, unless they had also spotted the registration number?

LE needs to let people know they want reports of anyone seen driving a car that colour on December 11th, or thereabouts (witnesses get dates mixed up sometimes, so better to be safe than sorry).
 
Am I the only one who would be really interested in the precise details arranged for the day Jennifer went missing?

For example, I presume Jennifer would have made sure that husband was available to pick the children up? If so, he will not have had any calls to fellow workers/conference calls etc, scheduled for that time. Or did the children make their own way home?

If hubby did have calendar appointments, could Jennifer have possibly made it back in time to attend to the children, having left at around 10.30 in the morning, as I think it was said she did? What time in the afternoon does school close, locals?
 
Almost 11 weeks since Jen was found. How long does it take to dot all the i's and cross all the t's?
 
SouthAussie said:
Almost 11 weeks since Jen was found. How long does it take to dot all the i's and cross all the t's?
Click to expand...

It is possible there is simply no hard evidence, and no cause of death. If so, it could be years before a case can be made. It would have to be all circumstantial, if so, and not all jurisdictions are prepared to go ahead with such cases.
 
Very sad .... :(

All the interference and stories during the time that Jen was missing certainly gave the perp plenty of time to dispose of any hard evidence and tie up any loose ends. I fear it would take a prosecutor who has the confidence of being highly experienced in murder cases to proceed in this matter.
 
zwiebel said:
Am I the only one who would be really interested in the precise details arranged for the day Jennifer went missing?

For example, I presume Jennifer would have made sure that husband was available to pick the children up? If so, he will not have had any calls to fellow workers/conference calls etc, scheduled for that time. Or did the children make their own way home?

If hubby did have calendar appointments, could Jennifer have possibly made it back in time to attend to the children, having left at around 10.30 in the morning, as I think it was said she did? What time in the afternoon does school close, locals?
Click to expand...

Jennifer was expected home at 5 -- apparently so she could prepare dinner.

It's my understanding that one of the parents usually took the children to school in the morning, but that they came home on the school bus.

So, that would have meant that the husband would have been responsible for the children between around 2:30 (or whenever they got off the bus) until 5-ish.

Leaving the morning and early afternoon as the only time to get any work done. Odd that he decided to use that time to head off to the Y, for what would have been about a 3 hour block of time (45 min. to run to the Y, and again to run home, and 1 hour at the Y and then a shower when he got back home).
 
Abigail said:
Jennifer was expected home at 5 -- apparently so she could prepare dinner.

It's my understanding that one of the parents usually took the children to school in the morning, but that they came home on the school bus.

So, that would have meant that the husband would have been responsible for the children between around 2:30 (or whenever they got off the bus) until 5-ish.

Leaving the morning and early afternoon as the only time to get any work done. Odd that he decided to use that time to head off to the Y, for what would have been about a 3 hour block of time (45 min. to run to the Y, and again to run home, and 1 hour at the Y and then a shower when he got back home).
Click to expand...

I agree, totally odd. But not sure it qualifies as evidence, unless to show opportunity, which is not enough on its own. Everything will come down to, a:cause/manner of death & b: enough bit of evidence, even if circumstantial, to show that her husband is the only person who could (reasonably) have committed this act. JMO of course

My fear is that this county may not be prepared to take on a case if they cannot prove how she died and do not have an direct evidence.
 
cluciano63 said:
I agree, totally odd. But not sure it qualifies as evidence, unless to show opportunity, which is not enough on its own. Everything will come down to, a:cause/manner of death & b: enough bit of evidence, even if circumstantial, to show that her husband is the only person who could (reasonably) have committed this act. JMO of course

My fear is that this county may not be prepared to take on a case if they cannot prove how she died and do not have an direct evidence.
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One can understand the punctiliousness of the Chenango Co. LE and DA, considering the 3 Wlasiuk trials.

However, murderers have been tried and convicted without even a body, let alone a cause of death. Motive, circumstantial evidence, opportunity, lack of airtight alibi, bizarre behavior -- all are powerful factors to sway a jury.:jail:
 
Abigail said:
Jennifer was expected home at 5 -- apparently so she could prepare dinner.

It's my understanding that one of the parents usually took the children to school in the morning, but that they came home on the school bus.

So, that would have meant that the husband would have been responsible for the children between around 2:30 (or whenever they got off the bus) until 5-ish.

Leaving the morning and early afternoon as the only time to get any work done. Odd that he decided to use that time to head off to the Y, for what would have been about a 3 hour block of time (45 min. to run to the Y, and again to run home, and 1 hour at the Y and then a shower when he got back home).
Click to expand...

Gosh, he must have easygoing bosses.

The other thing I have been thinking.......I believe Jennifer's husband became very concerned by 5pm? Because she wasn't answering her phone? So much so that he called her parents in Arizona and by 8pm had reported her missing.

I've got to say, his behaviour can't be faulted there. Unless it's a child, we often see all sorts of delays in reporting missing people as families only slowly come to the dreadful conclusion that a loved one has disappeared.

Jennifer's husband, it seems to me, had a classic, textbook good-response. Detectives experienced in missing person's cases always look out for strange delays and excuses when 'the last known person to have seen' makes a missing report. They won't have seen anything suspicious in Jennifer's husband's response, which is excellent.

If it was me in his shoes, I'd be in a lot of trouble. Because if Mr Z had driven off alone on a rural road in winter and didn't answer my calls, my first thought would have been he'd had a car accident. I'd have called the traffic police and all the hospitals first, long before I reported him missing.
 
Abigail said:
One can understand the punctiliousness of the Chenango Co. LE and DA, considering the 3 Wlasiuk trials.

However, murderers have been tried and convicted without even a body, let alone a cause of death. Motive, circumstantial evidence, opportunity, lack of airtight alibi, bizarre behavior -- all are powerful factors to sway a jury.:jail:
Click to expand...


There has been a discussion on another thread about a great Californian DA's investigator named Larry Montgomery. He spent two whole years going over Lynsie Ecklund's cold case - mostly sitting in an office with piles of paperwork and a computer screen in front of him.

The way he helped achieve a conviction and bring her home was a combination of outright deception (police are allowed to do this), a black wing mirror in a blurred image of a vehicle, and a single credit card purchase made at a place and time that was outside of the perp's normal routine. It had been missed originally because it wasn't an unusual place or purchase - it was the timing that did it.

Through that, the investigator linked to what a relative of the perp was doing that day; discovered the perp was moonlighting for him as an excavator that day, and honed in on where Lynsie was most likely to be found.

Tiny details, but they mattered. There must be tiny details in Jennifer's case too, just waiting to be uncovered by a diligent - even slightly obsessive - investigator.
 
zwiebel said:
Gosh, he must have easygoing bosses.

The other thing I have been thinking.......I believe Jennifer's husband became very concerned by 5pm? Because she wasn't answering her phone? So much so that he called her parents in Arizona and by 8pm had reported her missing.

I've got to say, his behaviour can't be faulted there. Unless it's a child, we often see all sorts of delays in reporting missing people as families only slowly come to the dreadful conclusion that a loved one has disappeared.

Jennifer's husband, it seems to me, had a classic, textbook good-response. Detectives experienced in missing person's cases always look out for strange delays and excuses when 'the last known person to have seen' makes a missing report. They won't have seen anything suspicious in Jennifer's husband's response, which is excellent.

If it was me in his shoes, I'd be in a lot of trouble. Because if Mr Z had driven off alone on a rural road in winter and didn't answer my calls, my first thought would have been he'd had a car accident. I'd have called the traffic police and all the hospitals first, long before I reported him missing.
Click to expand...

I called this premature communication...follow me here...anyone who has ever been the route, that Jen would have taken that day...any of the routes....and actually had went to Destiny...where it is busy, especially at holiday times...grand openings of new stores...all that holiday traffic, would possibly expect delays. Did he call her parents at 5pm his time or their time? There is a time difference...and yes, I would have contacted the New York State Police first, has they have statewide jurisdiction, and have extra officers on patrol during the holidays...so did he call hem at 5pm in what time zone? Things that make me go hmmm.
 
Again Jen is almost invisible. A google news search only shows the May 3rd subscription only Evening Sun story. You would think a murderer on the loose, killing mothers of small children and dumping their naked bodies in a ditch in her own home town would be a little more in the forefront of the news, as well as peoples minds. But I guess its just not a big deal when murderers just get to walk the streets.
 
Bettylou4you said:
Again Jen is almost invisible. A google news search only shows the May 3rd subscription only Evening Sun story. You would think a murderer on the loose, killing mothers of small children and dumping their naked bodies in a ditch in her own home town would be a little more in the forefront of the news, as well as peoples minds. But I guess its just not a big deal when murderers just get to walk the streets.
Click to expand...

I know right :banghead:. That was not directed at the people who live there.

I have actually avoided the missing pages on Facebook and to an extent this thread this past week. I feel like I have nothing to say that would help or be very constructive. I'm just so so angry and Mother's Day made me even more angry! <modsnip>
I'm a tad stressed this week with our upcoming trip which has nothing to do with this.
 
zwiebel said:
It is pretty obvious to me that at some point, Jennifer was being driven in her car, rather than driving it herself.

So isn't it about time a call went out for sightings of someone who was not Jennifer driving her car?

Jennifer had shoulder-length, shiny brown hair and a pretty, heart-shaped face. She was well-shaped. Easy to spot. But imagine if people had seen a car that was orange-red color being driven by a man, for instance, or a skinny person with cropped hair or something.....why would they come forward then, unless they had also spotted the registration number?

LE needs to let people know they want reports of anyone seen driving a car that colour on December 11th, or thereabouts (witnesses get dates mixed up sometimes, so better to be safe than sorry).
Click to expand...



remember early on there was the story of Jen possibly having changed her hairstyle and colour, IMO that could have been to 'explain' someone driving who wasn't Jen.

a wig would also be something they should consider IMO.
 
I have always had a problem with the hair change being mentioned at all,especially as details could not be provided about what it had changed to.

LE will know what that change was now - if indeed there was any.
 
Legal eagles - what's the legal term for sins of omission? I'm sure there are evidence rules that allow juries to take into account omissions as well as information provided, and I'm trying to look it up and can't find it.

(Just thinking ahead to when justice arrives in all its fine force for Jennifer).
 
Oh my gosh I have just realised we don't have a single tag in this thread. That's terrible! How are we going to keep Jennifer's name out there if we don't do that?
 
zwiebel said:
Oh my gosh I have just realised we don't have a single tag in this thread. That's terrible! How are we going to keep Jennifer's name out there if we don't do that?
Click to expand...

What's a tag?
 
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