Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #12

[Abigail]

This is going to be a stupid question.... What is the difference between the hearing that was scheduled and now postponed and the Grand Jury reviewing the case?

If I understand correctly, the felony hearing would be an open (to the public) hearing presided over by some sort of justice or official, where the basic details of the case would be presented, and it would be decided if it were worthy of continuing to trial (and presumably some changes could be made to the bail, but not sure).

The Grand Jury is a secret proceeding (not open to the public, but I believe the victims -- (Jennifer's parents and children) have the right to attend and make a statement -- 23 citizens of New Berlin make up the Grand Jury, and they will hear the evidence from Mr. McBride, and the defense attorney (or GR) can also make statements. The Grand Jury are permitted to ask questions of both the DA and the defense team. They will decide if GR's case will continue to trial. It doesn't have to be unanimous -- just 12 of the 23 -- a majority decision.

Not sure if they have any power to increase or deny bail -- sure hope so!!!!

***
Does anyone know if the children are still in the care of the Renz family?? Their safety is my main concern right now.

 

[dillysmom11]

Wow. Praying for those children.

 

[Amanda79]

My link didn't work.... Try it again...

www.storobin.com/criminalguide.html




Snipped from guide--- BBM


WHAT HAPPENS AFTER YOUR CRIMINAL COURT ARRAIGNMENT?

If you are charged with a felony and have already been arraigned in Criminal Court, your case will be sent to a court part where felony cases await the action of the grand jury. In rare instances, a preliminary hearing upon the felony complaint may be held to determine whether the prosecutor has enough evidence to hold you in jail while waiting for the grand jury to hear your case.

If you are charged with a felony and are in jail because you were remanded or are unable to post bail, the prosecutor must present evidence in your case to the grand jury no later than 144 hours (six days) after your arrest unless your criminal defense attorney is willing to waive this requirement. If the prosecutor does not present the evidence to the grand jury within this time, you will be released from jail on your own recognizance (R.O.R.) unless the prosecutor can show a judge why the case could not be presented sooner to the grand jury. If you are released from jail, this does not mean that your case has been dismissed and you must make sure to be in court for any date set by the judge.



GRAND JURY

Grand jury proceedings are secret and are not open to the public. The grand jury is made up of 16 to 23 people who listen to the evidence and decide whether there is enough evidence to put you on trial for a felony.

If the grand jury finds that there is enough evidence that you committed a crime, it will file an indictment. If the grand jury finds that there is not enough evidence that you committed a crime, you will be released from jail. If you give up your right to have your case presented to the grand jury, the prosecutor will file a Superior Court Information (S.C.I.).

You have the right to testify before the grand jury. Although your criminal defense lawyer may go with you to the proceeding, he or she must remain silent during your testimony. Your attorney may not address the grand jury or object to the prosecutor's questions. If you want to speak with your criminal lawyer before testifying, you may do so outside the grand jury room. Any conversation you have with your lawyer inside the grand jury room must be whispered and must not be heard by the grand jurors. If you decide to testify before the grand jury, you will probably be cross-examined by the prosecutor. Any questions the grand jurors may have for you will be asked by the prosecutor. You may also ask that the grand jury hear witnesses willing to testify for you, although you are not allowed to be present in the grand jury room while they testify.

It is usually extremely easy for the District Attorney to convince a Grand Jury to give permission to prosecute any particular case.

- The Prosecutor is not required to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt; - The Prosecutor is only required to convince the Grand Jurors that it is possible that the defendant might have committed a crime; - The Prosecution witnesses may not be cross-examined by your criminal defense lawyer;

- Prosecution witnesses are not usually challenged in any way;

- The defendant's attorney is not permitted to make opening or closing statements;

- The criminal defense attorney is not permitted to call witnesses on behalf of the defendant;

- The proceedings are secret. The defendant and the criminal defense attorney are not entitled even to know who testifies in the Grand Jury or what they said;

- Although the defendant is permitted to testify, it is only by way of a long statement. A defendant who is not a professional or natural public speaker may not do very well, regardless of the justness of his cause. Any statements made during the grand jury may be used against the defendant at trial;

- There is no judge directly involved to make rulings of law

 

[upstate]

My link didn't work.... Try it again...

www.storobin.com/criminalguide.html




Snipped from guide--- BBM


WHAT HAPPENS AFTER YOUR CRIMINAL COURT ARRAIGNMENT?

If you are charged with a felony and have already been arraigned in Criminal Court, your case will be sent to a court part where felony cases await the action of the grand jury. In rare instances, a preliminary hearing upon the felony complaint may be held to determine whether the prosecutor has enough evidence to hold you in jail while waiting for the grand jury to hear your case.

If you are charged with a felony and are in jail because you were remanded or are unable to post bail, the prosecutor must present evidence in your case to the grand jury no later than 144 hours (six days) after your arrest unless your criminal defense attorney is willing to waive this requirement. If the prosecutor does not present the evidence to the grand jury within this time, you will be released from jail on your own recognizance (R.O.R.) unless the prosecutor can show a judge why the case could not be presented sooner to the grand jury. If you are released from jail, this does not mean that your case has been dismissed and you must make sure to be in court for any date set by the judge.



GRAND JURY

Grand jury proceedings are secret and are not open to the public. The grand jury is made up of 16 to 23 people who listen to the evidence and decide whether there is enough evidence to put you on trial for a felony.

If the grand jury finds that there is enough evidence that you committed a crime, it will file an indictment. If the grand jury finds that there is not enough evidence that you committed a crime, you will be released from jail. If you give up your right to have your case presented to the grand jury, the prosecutor will file a Superior Court Information (S.C.I.).

You have the right to testify before the grand jury. Although your criminal defense lawyer may go with you to the proceeding, he or she must remain silent during your testimony. Your attorney may not address the grand jury or object to the prosecutor's questions. If you want to speak with your criminal lawyer before testifying, you may do so outside the grand jury room. Any conversation you have with your lawyer inside the grand jury room must be whispered and must not be heard by the grand jurors. If you decide to testify before the grand jury, you will probably be cross-examined by the prosecutor. Any questions the grand jurors may have for you will be asked by the prosecutor. You may also ask that the grand jury hear witnesses willing to testify for you, although you are not allowed to be present in the grand jury room while they testify.

It is usually extremely easy for the District Attorney to convince a Grand Jury to give permission to prosecute any particular case.

- The Prosecutor is not required to prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt; - The Prosecutor is only required to convince the Grand Jurors that it is possible that the defendant might have committed a crime; - The Prosecution witnesses may not be cross-examined by your criminal defense lawyer;

- Prosecution witnesses are not usually challenged in any way;

- The defendant's attorney is not permitted to make opening or closing statements;

- The criminal defense attorney is not permitted to call witnesses on behalf of the defendant;

- The proceedings are secret. The defendant and the criminal defense attorney are not entitled even to know who testifies in the Grand Jury or what they said;

- Although the defendant is permitted to testify, it is only by way of a long statement. A defendant who is not a professional or natural public speaker may not do very well, regardless of the justness of his cause. Any statements made during the grand jury may be used against the defendant at trial;

- There is no judge directly involved to make rulings of law

I'm so confused! I wish any of this made sense to me - I'm trying to understand and don't want to miss an opportunity to be there and let him feel how angry we are

 

[upstate]

So tomorrow, we still have a chance his bond will be revoked?

 

[EmeraldLily]

I was glad to see an arrest made in Jennifer's case and it certainly did NOT surprise me that it was GR! How horrible that Jennifer's children have been forced into such a situation by their own father!! My heart goes out to them and to Jennifer's parents, sister and family.
I was totally shocked that he was allowed any bail at all! I absolutely believe that our new county/family/surrogate court judge, Frank Revoir, made a terrible error in judgement in allowing bail in this case! It is extremely disheartening to see that he takes children's well-being and safety into such little consideration, especially knowing that as family court judge, such a job is one of his biggest responsibilities!!!! (Shame on you, Judge Revoir!!!!!! ) If he were going to make any error at all, wouldn't it have been best to err on the side of caution in regards to the children's safety/best interest? There is no way that even with only a chance (only because GR is innocent until proven guilty in court) that any harm could come to them, that he should have allowed such a thing to happen. I am shocked and appalled by this! I sincerely hope that the children will be able to stay with Jennifer's parents!
I am not surprised that GR and his family have been able to post his bail, but I find it appalling that the family didn't appear to put nearly as much effort into finding the missing Jennifer.
I was shocked at first upon reading that he is (and probably has been...for how long?) working out at the Y.....must be over his "grieving' but then, after thinking about it and how I've felt all along, not so shocked.
Same with his plans with his girlfriend....
I really hope the grand jury does their job well tomorrow!!!!

 

[EmeraldLily]

Him giving away Jennifer's things, such as the dresser, rather than saving it for his children or asking her parents if they wanted it? That speaks volumes to me about his regards for his wife, children and in-laws. What a guy... NOT!

 

[zwiebel]

These hearings are confusing to me as we don't have them over here. From what Abigail linked, it sounds as though the felony hearing was to decide if GR should stay in jail? But as a judge had already given him bail, I don't see what the point of that would be. Unless a judge's decision can be overturned during felony proceedings.

The grand jury bit is easier to understand. I wonder if GR will use his opportunity to speak?

 

[EmeraldLily]

If he does, I hope he does as poorly as he has in his past interviews! With that in mind, perhaps his lawyer will think it best if he keeps his mouth shut...

 

[dillysmom11]

Oh please, please let him open wide his mouth and speak!

 

[Abigail]

My link didn't work.... Try it again...

www.storobin.com/criminalguide.html

You have the right to testify before the grand jury. Although your criminal defense lawyer may go with you to the proceeding, he or she must remain silent during your testimony. Your attorney may not address the grand jury or object to the prosecutor's questions. If you decide to testify before the grand jury, you will probably be cross-examined by the prosecutor. Any questions the grand jurors may have for you will be asked by the prosecutor. You may also ask that the grand jury hear witnesses willing to testify for you, although you are not allowed to be present in the grand jury room while they testify.

It is usually extremely easy for the District Attorney to convince a Grand Jury to give permission to prosecute any particular case.

The Prosecution witnesses may not be cross-examined by your criminal defense lawyer;

- The defendant's attorney is not permitted to make opening or closing statements;

- The criminal defense attorney is not permitted to call witnesses on behalf of the defendant;

- The proceedings are secret. The defendant and the criminal defense attorney are not entitled even to know who testifies in the Grand Jury or what they said;

- Although the defendant is permitted to testify, it is only by way of a long statement. A defendant who is not a professional or natural public speaker may not do very well, regardless of the justness of his cause. Any statements made during the grand jury may be used against the defendant at trial;

- There is no judge directly involved to make rulings of law

Thank you so much, Amanda, for posting this. It cleared up some things I didn't understand, and also, I note that I was incorrect in a couple of my statements in the posting over yours...I thought the defense attorney could speak, but now I know he cannot. Only GR can speak on his behalf, and any witnesses he requests (although I doubt he has any).

Upstate, it looks like you won't be able to be there tomorrow, although I suppose you could stand outside the courtroom if you knew the time. I wonder if Mr. & Mrs. Renz can be there -- from what I looked up on victims' rights, it says they have the right to attend all criminal proceedings, but still not clear on whether it applies to the secret Grand Jury.

I believe someone posted on J4J that only Judge Revoir can revoke, increase, or deny bail. But that he can do that at any time.

Where are the children? Anyone know what their custody status is??

 

[zwiebel]

I am certain his lawyer will think it best he doesn't speak. Joe Mahoney of the Daily Star seemed to be the only one who put questions to GR that GR didn't like, and you can see in the answers he gave that

1. He was getting mad and seemed to have a temper ('like some nitwit')
2. He made himself seem unfeeling, ('What's that got to do with anything?' re: adultery)
3. Desperate and panicking (blood in van might be 'nosebleeds)
4. Deceptive ('always tell the truth' 'I never lie' when he'd just admitted deceiving his wife)
5. Manipulative and underhand ('let's not talk about medication'..'she changed, I'll leave it at that', so leaving open answers where people can imagine the worst)
6. Willing to use his children to make a point ('I tell my kids...' 'It's not fair on my kids...')
7. Disrespectful of the law ('screw justice')
8. Overall, he gave the impression he disliked both Jennifer and her family

I'm hoping the arrest hasn't dented his confidence much and GR won't listen to his lawyer's advice though. He'll think he can convince a jury himself.

 

[zwiebel]

Tomorrow Abigail? So the next hearing is Friday now?

 

[Abigail]

Tomorrow Abigail? So the next hearing is Friday now?

oops...sorry...no...today (as far as I know) -- Thursday. Time zone error on my part.

 

[Abigail]

http://www.wbng.com/home/Remy-Ramsaran-out-on-bail-208559291.html

Another article -- from Action News 12 -- but no new info.

At this point, have added the new (May 22) articles from Evening Sun, YNN, Daily Star and this one to the "Part II: Arrest" Media Links collection. Any others out there that I missed?

 

[Abigail]

I've noticed in a handful (vast minority) of comments posted on news articles and social network pages since GR's arrest, "Innocent until proven guilty."

This kinda irritates me -- the inference that we must all consider him "innocent" for the next year or so until a trial by jury decides. As if all the evidence that led to his arrest was immaterial. If everyone is "innocent" until a trial proves them guilty, how would they even be arrested in the first place?

For one thing...it is a misnomer to say an individual who has been arrested and is standing trial is "innocent." The wording of the U.S. Supreme Court is that the person is assumed innocent in the absence of contrary evidence (Taylor vs Kentucky, 436 U.S. 478, 98 S. Ct. 1930, 56 L. Ed. 2d 468 [1978]). It certainly doesn't mean that the person is innocent!

What "assumption of innocence" does mean is that the accused person does not need to prove his innocence. The burden is on the government to prove he is guilty.

The very fact that many courts will charge a high bail or deny bail altogether to accused criminals who pose a flight risk or a danger to the public puts to rest the notion that a person is "innocent" in the months leading up to the trial.

Sheriff Cutter, the Onandaga Medical Examiner and all the fine men and women who have spent months carefully examining all the evidence in this case are assured that the right man has been arrested. District Attorney McBride would not have levied charges of 2nd degree murder against GR if he were not convinced that law enforcement had collected substantial evidence of GR's guilt.

 

[Abigail]

I am quite encouraged to read that District Attorney Joe McBride has prosecuted over 1500 felonies, and in 2011 had a 99% conviction rate.

If McBride's winning streak continues, GR has a 1% chance of not ending up in :jail: -- permanently.

Considering Mr. McBride's political aspirations, I am convinced that he would not have brought charges of murder against GR if he weren't assured of a conviction.

If I were GR, I'd be trying to negotiate a plea deal.

Probably won't happen though. GR's too arrogant to believe he'll lose a jury trial, and McBride has enough experience in successful trials and is holding too much evidence to give up all the positive publicity that will come from winning in court.

 

[upstatelaura]

I was glad to see an arrest made in Jennifer's case and it certainly did NOT surprise me that it was GR! How horrible that Jennifer's children have been forced into such a situation by their own father!! My heart goes out to them and to Jennifer's parents, sister and family.
I was totally shocked that he was allowed any bail at all! I absolutely believe that our new county/family/surrogate court judge, Frank Revoir, made a terrible error in judgement in allowing bail in this case! It is extremely disheartening to see that he takes children's well-being and safety into such little consideration, especially knowing that as family court judge, such a job is one of his biggest responsibilities!!!! (Shame on you, Judge Revoir!!!!!! ) If he were going to make any error at all, wouldn't it have been best to err on the side of caution in regards to the children's safety/best interest? There is no way that even with only a chance (only because GR is innocent until proven guilty in court) that any harm could come to them, that he should have allowed such a thing to happen. I am shocked and appalled by this! I sincerely hope that the children will be able to stay with Jennifer's parents!
I am not surprised that GR and his family have been able to post his bail, but I find it appalling that the family didn't appear to put nearly as much effort into finding the missing Jennifer.
I was shocked at first upon reading that he is (and probably has been...for how long?) working out at the Y.....must be over his "grieving' but then, after thinking about it and how I've felt all along, not so shocked.
Same with his plans with his girlfriend....
I really hope the grand jury does their job well tomorrow!!!!

I too was shocked by his lack of grieving way back when he said he was shopping and basically forgot his wife was missing. Who would forget something like that. Not to mention his horrible acting during those interviews, the local community theatre wouldn't even cast someone with acting that bad.

 

[fringles]

I've noticed in a handful (vast minority) of comments posted on news articles and social network pages since GR's arrest, "Innocent until proven guilty."

This kinda irritates me -- the inference that we must all consider him "innocent" for the next year or so until a trial by jury decides.

(RSBM)

I know what you mean, and it IS annoying, but tbh I was expecting to see much worse, considering the nonsense that was being spouted the past months. I'm relieved not to be being pummeled with flannel about a 'wrongful arrest' and 'miscarriage of justice' - and I actually think, given the way certain people have behaved, the fact that we're only seeing 'innocent until proven guilty' implies that a lot of people who were so certain GR was nothing to do with it were either covering their behinds, afraid, or have now changed their minds.

His lawyer claiming he needs to be able to care for his children makes my blood boil though. He's accused of killing their mother. How CARING.

 

[Abigail]

lease: for :justice: at the Grand Jury today!!

Not too worried:
- the evidence is there
- the citizens of Chenango County are blessed with common sense (well, most of them)