Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 4

[Bettylou4you]

An iphone is fragile. Drop it 2 feet onto table and it breaks. Throw it out of a moving car and its toast, unless it lands on a pillow.

 

[ozgirl70]

An iphone is fragile. Drop it 2 feet onto table and it breaks. Throw it out of a moving car and its toast, unless it lands on a pillow.

There would be damage, for sure. Most likely to the screen, but it's possible the app would still work, I guess. :twocents:

It's a shame that GR picked the phone up himself. By doing so he probably destroyed any fresh fingerprints on it.
I don't understand why he went looking for it by himself when he had already involved the police. Surely the correct thing to do would be to tell them and have them go look for it.
:moo::moo:

 

[epiphany]

Also, does anyone know at what time GR "found" the phone? Was it dark? Cause then it would be hard to find if the app only gives you a big location area.

GR reported Jennifer missing at 8 PM that evening, and according to LD's post linked below, GR located Jennifer's iPhone less than 12 hrs later (the following morning) after "the pinging finally traced" to her phone.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8791776&postcount=224"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #3[/ame]

 

[krey]

An iphone is fragile. Drop it 2 feet onto table and it breaks. Throw it out of a moving car and its toast, unless it lands on a pillow.

This would be a great question for Lavanda: Was the iphone in a protective case, and if so, what kind of case??

I don't see how answering this question would harm the investigation, <Mod Snip>

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Which then made me wonder how I missed that GR would have had to pass those apartments coming & going on 12/12! Was it not there, he really not see it or purposely leave it there for someone else to find?:what:

Good point...

He finds a little tiny phone...

But "misses" HIS (well.. Family) VAN... Parked on the road to and from the phone?

:waitasec:

 

[SouthAussie]

Which then made me wonder how I missed that GR would have had to pass those apartments coming & going on 12/12! Was it not there, he really not see it or purposely leave it there for someone else to find?:what:

Unfortunate that LE didn't find the car ... apparently they are known to 'hide' in that area when trying to catch speeders.

 

[epiphany]

There's a plausible explanation for everything.

No apples...but it appears that there are and GR has given them to LE.

Sure, the red flags are numerous, IMO, but Let's Go!: What did the forensics reveal?

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

BBM...

Wasn't it Law Enforcement that was discouraging individuals from searching?

Actually... It is my understanding that when one of our WSers organized a search with the okay from LE... GR was very vocal about not having the search...his comments on the Find Jennifer FB were strongly against it...

eventually he changed his mind to attend the search... But our WSer cancelled due to the upheaval that was being caused...

correct me if I am wrong, WSers...

JMO

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Yes it was.
http://cnynews.com/sheriff-discourages-private-searches-for-missing-jennifer-ramsaran/

Thank you for bringing this to my attention...

 

[Caring4Many]

An iphone is fragile. Drop it 2 feet onto table and it breaks. Throw it out of a moving car and its toast, unless it lands on a pillow.

Honestly I've had 3 different iPhones, all 3 are still working with other users & only one has a scratch on it because my lab tried to EAT it! (Lol) I can't tell you how many times I've dropped my phones, my iPhone4 had no case for almost the full 2 years because I couldn't find one that didn't restrict things I needed to attach to it at a given moment. My point is though, I've dropped mine out of my car, my 4x4 truck, a millions times from my pocket even onto pavement, and it looked great. It looks good enough that my teenager considered it a brand new phone. But I will say the iPhone 5s scratch on the sides easier than any other iPhone. (Silver metal piece) but flying out of a moving vehicle I'm not so sure that it would hold up as well.

I'd have to agree on the fingerprints as well. It really should have been evidence captured by LE, GR should have called them & allowed them to see where it was & it's current surroundings. How do we even know that is where it was if he was alone? In the very least he should have had a witness.

 

[krey]

Actually... It is my understanding that when one of our WSers organized a search with the okay from LE... GR was very vocal about not having the search...his comments on the Find Jennifer FB were strongly against it...

eventually he changed his mind to attend the search... But our WSer cancelled due to the upheaval that was being caused...

correct me if I am wrong, WSers...

JMO

You're right.....

 

[SouthAussie]

Good point...

He finds a little tiny phone...

But "misses" HIS (well.. Family) VAN... Parked on the road to and from the phone?

:waitasec:

Yep, a small phone that LE probably wouldn’t have been able to find, and a big car that LE should have been able to find.

 

[The Cheese]

BBM...

Wasn't it Law Enforcement that was discouraging individuals from searching?

Yes, according to the WSer who organized the search, when she spoke to Cobb, he discouraged the search. You can read her own post right here -

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8796841&postcount=405"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #3[/ame]


Later, news articles came out with LE having been interviewed, and they discouraged searches. LE gave their reasons in the news articles. At no time has LE stated the searches were discouraged because "they got a lot of phone calls". They stated it was because of reasons such as evidence preservation.

I didn't include the links with these, but here are just some of the articles from Google News -

Sheriff: Don't Privately Search for Missing Jennifer Ramsaran
CNY News (subscription)-Jan 22, 2013
The Chenango County Sheriff's Office is urging people not to privately search for New Berlin's Jennifer Ramsaran, who has been missing since Dec. 11, 2012.

Search called off
Evening Sun (subscription)-Jan 18, 2013
As for Sunday's on again, off again search, Cobb said, &#8220;As far as I know, there is no search going on this weekend.&#8221; Jennifer Ramsaran's cell ...

Sheriff: Don't inhibit missing mom search
Oneonta Daily Star-Jan 20, 2013
Sheriff: Don't inhibit missing mom search ... Friday he is discouraging local citizens from conducting their own searches for Jennifer Ramsaran, ...

 

[krey]

Well, I'll just say one thing about the searches. If Jennifer were a loved one of mine, I'd be out on foot searching every single day - whether or not LE or anyone else told me not to. And I'd be highly appreciative of anyone willing to join me in those searches. I think it's a damn shame that she's been gone 2 months and people aren't out there looking EVERY SINGLE DAY.

 

[SouthAussie]

There's a plausible explanation for everything.

No apples...but it appears that there are and GR has given them to LE.

Sure, the red flags are numerous, IMO, but Let's Go!: What did the forensics reveal?

Something that has always bothered me about the forensics ….. I hope that LE have all of the electronic devices that the family owned at the time. My future SIL is an internet security specialist, and he has many devices …. laptops, PCs, tablets … always updating to the latest device and gradually selling the ‘old’ ones on ebay. I hope that LE got them all.

 

[Jilllian]

Yes, according to the WSer who organized the search, when she spoke to Cobb, he discouraged the search. You can read her own post right here -

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - #3


Later, news articles came out with LE having been interviewed, and they discouraged searches. LE gave their reasons in the news articles. At no time has LE stated the searches were discouraged because "they got a lot of phone calls". They stated it was because of reasons such as evidence preservation.

I didn't include the links with these, but here are just some of the articles from Google News -

Sheriff: Don't Privately Search for Missing Jennifer Ramsaran
CNY News (subscription)-Jan 22, 2013
The Chenango County Sheriff's Office is urging people not to privately search for New Berlin's Jennifer Ramsaran, who has been missing since Dec. 11, 2012.

Search called off
Evening Sun (subscription)-Jan 18, 2013
As for Sunday's on again, off again search, Cobb said, “As far as I know, there is no search going on this weekend.” Jennifer Ramsaran's cell ...

Sheriff: Don't inhibit missing mom search
Oneonta Daily Star-Jan 20, 2013
Sheriff: Don't inhibit missing mom search ... Friday he is discouraging local citizens from conducting their own searches for Jennifer Ramsaran, ...

This is accurate:
http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196380&page=26

Prior to cancelling the search, there were no articles instructing the community not to search.

It would be quite odd for the sheriff's dept. to outwardly state, either during a media interview or otherwise, "Hold up, folks. The phone's ringing off the hook. Sorry guys, you can't search. Too many phone calls coming in complaining about it."

Lt. Cobb was well aware of the search prior to it being even organized.

In my opinion, public searches should have begun right away, and should have continued all along. A huge window of opportunity was missed, IMO.

 

[momrids6]

In their statements, they were worried about evidence. I don't think they'd be concerned about evidence if she was voluntarily missing....

 

[nanasbabes]

Follow-up question that regarding the muddy routes from the location the phone was found to where the van was dumped:

Would any of those routes have secluded spots that should be searched?

(I know others have suggested areas to search - just checking for more!)

most definitaly there's miles of bad roads there but my husband says it would have to be walked now with the snow. there are many pine trees, revines, in state land and it goes up past were the phone was found by the old dump road, whitch locals calls moon hill, and if you continue to go straight at the top its a seasonal road. Thought about trying to go for a drive and see how far we get.

 

[momrids6]

most definitaly there's miles of bad roads there but my husband says it would have to be walked now with the snow. there are many pine trees, revines, in state land and it goes up past were the phone was found by the old dump road, whitch locals calls moon hill, and if you continue to go straight at the top its a seasonal road. Thought about trying to go for a drive and see how far we get.

I would look at the bottom of hill like areas- where things may land if rolled- and against the side of trees on hill for same reason.

And I would definitely look where the trash from Sheff Road is dumped.


ETA: Couples Wipeout is on if you need a break...

 

[Londonrraine]

I am looking forward to BearAngel's reports regarding the search yesterday!

:crossfingers:

Any word on the search that was to take place yesterday?

It sounded like they had a plan, with enough searchers to split routes, and no word?