Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 6

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Missing woman's sister: 'We miss you'
Police inform kin of body, autopsy

By Joe Mahoney
The Daily Star

In an interview last week, Ganesh Ramsaran stated that both his sister-in law and his mother-in-law, Carol Renz, began viewing him with suspicion when they learned, following Jennifer Ramsaran’s disappearance, that he had a sexual tryst with one of his wife’s close friends.

When asked by The Daily Star if the affair with one of his running partners was a factor in his sister-in-law and mother-in-law becoming estranged from him, Ganesh Ramsaran stated: “I can guarantee that’s what did it.”

- See more at: http://thedailystar.com/localnews/x1837420511/Missing-womans-sister-We-miss-you#sthash.cVBj0V5p.dpuf

'QUANDARY'
Quote Foxfire
'Not implying that the following comment/desperate plea for help; parallel, is from JR, but to illustrate the devastating quandary of a person caught up in the maze of infidelity'..[
/B]

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110504081208AAseiCu


My husband had an affair with my best friend...What should I do?

My husband had an affair with my best friend...What should I do?
I just found out through a saved e-mail on my husbands phone that he had a 4 month affair with my best friend whom I've known since grade school. I would never in a million years suspected that this happened.

My husband is nice guy,charming, good looking, he absolutely adores our 3 year old daughter, volunteers as a YMCA coach, has an amazing job. He's like the poster man for perfect husband. Maybe this is why I'm so shocked.

(Read More - Much More) BBM
 
"Ganesh Ramsaran also characterized himself as being always truthful.

“It serves no purpose to ever lie,” he said. “I teach the kids: No matter what, tell the truth.”


:waitasec: :banghead: :furious:

Actions speak louder than words.....isn't an affair a lie.....didn't he say Jenn didn't know....so he lied to her at the very core of what marriage is.....jeesh...of course your in-laws don't trust you !!!!!!!! Great example to set for your kids!
 
Good thought on possibly a freezer being used... the 'well preserved' concept was conveyed by a verified insider. Wonder if chest freezers will now be looked at or accessible (in the area) walk-in coolers or even refridge trucks. And not even those used for 'people food' but could be freezers used to store beef, chicken, etc.

Upthread a bit earlier this morning was talk about a Jen sighting last week -- as well as info in the recent DS article. I thought LD had eluded to that recently -- along the lines that we did not know all the facts and some things lead her/them to believe she was still alive -- not sure if here on WS or on a FB posting.

Will take full blame for being a newbie and learning in's and out's -- but for the life of me I cannot find LD as a WS member to get to her posts. Did she fall off the face of the earth on WS site? I know she actively posted up until maybe a week ago (?) so not my imagination... Not of importance -- keep up good work with your ideas -- but if someone has a moment to confirm my non-findings... TIA
 
Just curious, how often do perps actually move the body?

Very seldom, Tennlyn.. There are many reasons, especially when a person thinks that they may be a suspect or a POI in a case. Many times investigators place a gps tracking device on the POIs & Suspects vehicle, or keep them under surveillance.
Imo, due to the chance of indicting additional forensics and the scrutiny placed on them. Moving the body would be analogous to rolling the dice due to being stopped by LE in a routine traffic stop, etc..

In the ULL student Mickey Shunick abduction/murder, malignant sexual predator/serial killer Brandon Scott Laverne, did relocate her body from a sugar cane field where the murder occurred to a rural historic cemetery in a different police jurisdiction, and then buried her in a shallow grave covered with brush according to him.

When, and if the info is released, and imo, Jennifer Ramsaran was placed at the location on 12/11/2012, simply missed in prior searches. This is not uncommon, especially when the remains are in a shallow grave or camoflauged with limbs, brush, snow or other material..
 
Good thought on possibly a freezer being used... the 'well preserved' concept was conveyed by a verified insider. Wonder if chest freezers will now be looked at or accessible (in the area) walk-in coolers or even refridge trucks. And not even those used for 'people food' but could be freezers used to store beef, chicken, etc.

Upthread a bit earlier this morning was talk about a Jen sighting last week -- as well as info in the recent DS article. I thought LD had eluded to that recently -- along the lines that we did not know all the facts and some things lead her/them to believe she was still alive -- not sure if here on WS or on a FB posting.

Will take full blame for being a newbie and learning in's and out's -- but for the life of me I cannot find LD as a WS member to get to her posts. Did she fall off the face of the earth on WS site? I know she actively posted up until maybe a week ago (?) so not my imagination... Not of importance -- keep up good work with your ideas -- but if someone has a moment to confirm my non-findings... TIA


Bob's Chicken, In virtually all missing persons cases there are reported sightings. Once the autopsy is complete, this question and hopefully many more will be answered.

Imo, the JR sighting statement was made to plant doubt in people's minds..Reasonable Doubt..

Kinda reminded me of a Perry Mason Show defense used in a homicide case where the body was never recovered.

The Judge said, "next witness"..
Perry called the victim's name and nodded at the bailiff who went out to get her from the waiting room. Everyone in the courtroom; Judge, Attorneys, and the Jurors watched the door expecting her to enter.

Although she never entered, 'Perry had just placed a reasonable doubt in their minds that she was alive'..
 
Good thought on possibly a freezer being used... the 'well preserved' concept was conveyed by a verified insider. Wonder if chest freezers will now be looked at or accessible (in the area) walk-in coolers or even refridge trucks. And not even those used for 'people food' but could be freezers used to store beef, chicken, etc.

Upthread a bit earlier this morning was talk about a Jen sighting last week -- as well as info in the recent DS article. I thought LD had eluded to that recently -- along the lines that we did not know all the facts and some things lead her/them to believe she was still alive -- not sure if here on WS or on a FB posting.

Will take full blame for being a newbie and learning in's and out's -- but for the life of me I cannot find LD as a WS member to get to her posts. Did she fall off the face of the earth on WS site? I know she actively posted up until maybe a week ago (?) so not my imagination... Not of importance -- keep up good work with your ideas -- but if someone has a moment to confirm my non-findings... TIA

She is a former member.

Hope this helps:

"Thank you. We've been encouraging this as we know those that have left due to being despondent invariably are reading and watching. We need to continue the prayers that she is in fact safe and out there."

"The last one to see her that the public knows about.
(Ex: We cannot say that someone at the gas station or convenient mart may not have been the last to see her and not divulged due to the investigation. We cannot state what may or may not have been found on surveillance cameras. )
So you see why I said that folks NEED to think outside the box.
You cannot have an entire case study on a missing person and totally focus to one possibility. You must look at all aspects. ALL possibilities.
(Also, you are assuming JR was aware of an "affair" that may or may not have transpired.)
Your last question is easy. They both used the same password for Facebook. So it was not a "hinky scenario or controlling husband scenario." As you were led to believe.

And...further, compromising her online activities is DEFINITELY out....because even he did not know of all that transpired until after missing and law enforcement showed him. So did he have access to all of her accounts? Nooooooooooooooooo."

"Unfortunately I myself am starting to lean more to number two, than number one.
I've already ruled out GR.
First...he couldnt run from APT to Y in that time-frame and go unnoticed by cameras coming in from wrong direction.
His cell phone is an automatic GPS tracker as it pings continually off towers so PD has the forensics to where he was in approx vicinities.
His home office work and conference calls are via a VPN which is tracked and logged with his company.
His entire alibi is accounted for. Even strangers who saw him running...to people at Y...to people who saw after. So that leaves:

If someone caused her harm it was a stranger or if it was someone who knows her it wasn't her spouse...or she left despondent. "

"I've narrowed to 2 "greater" possibilities:

One: Despondent and left; afraid of peers/family to come forward
Two: carjacked (possibly by multiple people.)
She goes to use her phone..they snatch it...turn it off...took her somewhere...harmed her. drove around all night or stayed somewhere else with her in van. Now need plan on what to do with her...in morning after their drugged craze wore off....drives down route 23
Pulls into mud by dirt mound...tosses phone...phone hits rock which turns back on and lands in mud to cushion glass. Intentions to put her in the water..realizes that it is not a good place as water is clearly visible to bottom (you can see all the rocks at bottom) and decide not a good place after all...peels out...mud splashes..drives further down road...2 or 3 other ponds between the two places....maybe placed her in one of those that was not as clear... and finally abandons van at apartment and maybe van not even abandoned that day. Maybe not until day after.

We drove many roads and none were thick with mud. Ironically the only mud place was where the cell was found. (and one other possible road near Morris, NY called LIEB Road was muddy. No others...not enough to have vehicle look like mine did....and hers.) "

"Which route happened first? The van or the phone?

Random thoughts bothering me:

Did Jennifer leave the van in the parking lot as a meeting place to ride with someone else? I believe the van was somewhere else and someone else left the van in the parking lot. Why? Because of the keys in the van. If she were meeting someone, the keys would have been with her.

Did she meet someone, leave her van somewhere and rode with that person? If that is the case, and if that person was causing her fear...and say she pulled our her phone and they grabbed it and threw it out the window...that still leaves...where is Jennifer...and why would the person go back to her van and risk moving it ..or opening door and leaving keys in it?

If Jennifer had a near full tank of gas when she left, and told husband she was going to the mall, it would be expected that she would need gas used up in the van. This says to me...and with her "comfort level" that she would have been the most likely to have been the "driver" as opposed to getting into a different vehicle.
Did she pick someone up at their home? Did she meet someone in a public sort of place (parking lot) and they left their vehicle. She was the driver. Did something happen while she was driving and her phone thrown out the window? Did someone hold a gun to her to make her drive somewhere else? Did someone harm her and then drive her van back to their vehicle? Was their vehicle left in that apartment parking lot? Was their meeting place another parking lot and the person escaped and hopped into their own vehicle leaving behind the keys and van and someone else found it and took it joyriding and abandoned it at the apartments? Did she not meet anyone at all and maybe stopped for a soda or snack somewhere and was car jacked? (I kind of rule that out due to the rings in the jewelry box.) Why leave your wedding rings unless you are meeting someone? "


Just a few of her posts to re-read. :what:
 
No we haven't really had a clear answer - but my question is Why didn't he use it even BEFORE he reported her to LE - so much easier than ringing family in AZ, and friends all over (if that happened)

:doh:

VERY good point... And one that I cant believe I hadn't thought of...

Finding Missing Wife 101....

Use phone app to find her phone BEFORE calling friends (?) and OUT OF SATE in-laws...

:thumb:
 
Lavanda's posts show up with a search of that name...
 
Hello all! I've been reading the threads from the beginning, following along all of the terrific sleuthing. I'd like to say how much it's appreciated what everyone here has contributed to making it about JENNIFER.

I don't have anything new to add right now, but thought I would just pop in after taking Jillian's advice and say hello to all of you. I look forward (as RB eloquently said) to helping you continue the work.

While it has been a very sad 24 hours, It's my hope that justice will eventually help console those in pain from this terrible tragedy.

:seeya:
:wagon: JTKirk! :welcome:

Thank you for joining us as we search for justice for Jennifer!

:seeya:
 
My work has given me a profound respect for what humans suffer at the hands of evil, and a particular sensitivity for what its victims endure. During every investigation that I participate in, there is always an invisible observer at my shoulder, whose presence I never forget. Regardless of the circumstances of a case, I am always giving voice to its silent victim.

What must this young girl’s final minutes have been like? Did she cry out while he was repeatedly stabbing her, or keep silent, breathing like a wounded animal, watching for the next glint of a blade? Did her thoughts turn to her parents in those final seconds, when she was overwhelmed by the deepest loneliness she had ever known? Did she experience a dissociative response, the sense of drifting upward and watching her own death as if from above? Or did she sink mercifully into unconsciousness, and feel nothing as her life ebbed away?
http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com/2007/01/between-good-and-evil-by-roger-l.html
Roger L Depue FBI BAU2 Retired

Beautifully written, Foxfire... :heart:
 
I am so sad for Jennifer and her family. My love and prayers go out to them. All of you on here are amazing and although I don't post much I have read each and every one. I think it is truly wonderful to see complete strangers come together have so much compassion and it really restores my faith in humanity and it is so evident here and on the HFJR FB page.

I have an opinion on who I think the perp is and I want him to know that it isn't a website or a FB page that I have based my opinion on it is his own words.

:Welcome1: Bluecosmo! :wagon:

thank you for your input!

:seeya:
 
ORR (OffRoadRunner) said that this is one of the areas that was searched by helicopter. He mentioned the time frame upthread. Can't remember when exactly that was though...2-3 weeks ago?

I am not familiar with searches, but am wondering if doing Aerial searches if they videoed the parts they searched?

Also wondering if volunteers take any pictures or videos to help them keep track of areas they search?

Thanks for all you do Jillian.
 
Just curious, how often do perps actually move the body?

One of our SAR people said on Bob's thread this is pretty rare. But that they couldn't count the number of times a perp had left a body close to where they could do a U turn with their vehicle.
 
KF posted 15 mins ago under the article "husband reacts"

Is she seriously calling out Joe? :nono: I think the more we rely on these 'untruthful' news sources, the more they will be mentioned. :coffeews:

jmo

Justice for Jennifer!
 
Beautifully written, Foxfire... :heart:

'Yes it is, IHAVENOCLUE, and wish I could take credit for it but it is a snipet from Roger L Depue's book Good & Evil. Depue speaks from the heart and experienced a lot of tragedy & triumphs/good & evil over his 6 decades of life. RLD's wife died of cancer. He dropped out of LE and went on a journey seeking answers as to why the good are taken away while the evil are allowed to continue..

http://criminalminds.wikia.com/wiki/Roger_L._Depue

Dr. Depue, one of the pioneers of the FBI's Behavior Science Unit, was first assigned there in 1974 as a Supervisory Special Agent. He served as an instructor and researcher until his promotion to the position of Chief of Behavioral Sciences in 1980, a post he held until his retirement from the FBI in 1989.
His research led him to coin the term "leakage", which basically means that one's fantasies consciously or subconsciously tend to leak out. It also allows offender profilers to obtain information on a criminal's motivation.
 
Bob's Chicken, In virtually all missing persons cases there are reported sightings. Once the autopsy is complete, this question and hopefully many more will be answered.

Imo, the JR sighting statement was made to plant doubt in people's minds..Reasonable Doubt..

Kinda reminded me of a Perry Mason Show defense used in a homicide case where the body was never recovered.

The Judge said, "next witness"..
Perry called the victim's name and nodded at the bailiff who went out to get her from the waiting room. Everyone in the courtroom; Judge, Attorneys, and the Jurors watched the door expecting her to enter.

Although she never entered, 'Perry had just placed a reasonable doubt in their minds that she was alive'..

That's the classic "reasonable doubt" scenario without a body. Defense: "The "victim" could walk through the door at any moment." Good thing Jennifer was found so that's out the window here.
 
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