Found Deceased NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 - # 9

[SoSueMe]

I'm replacing some of the posts, including the one by Jilllian stating her Help Find Jennifer Facebook page was hacked. Let's wait to hear from Jilllian as to what happened. Please, let's don't throw out accusations or speculation as to who may have hacked her FB page. We trust she will let us know the real deal when she returns.

Thank you.

 

[zwiebel]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY - Jennifer Ramsaran, 36, Chenango County, 11 Dec 2012 *media maps & timelines*

Just to remind our gazillion guests - who may be locals - that this is what Jennifer's car looks like. This is the vehicle found abandoned in front of an appartment block, with bloodstains.

As Jennifer's body was found abandoned at the side of the road, far away from her car, it might be safe to assume someone else might have been driving it. If you saw ANYTHING that day, please come forward.

And you are very, very, welcome to join.
Welcome.
Bienvenu.
Wilkommen.
Welkom.

 

[zwiebel]

The JFJR/HFJR page was hacked.
It's gone.
:what:

I am so glad to hear this. It is such great publicity, while Jennifer's case has grown so quiet in the media.

When you send out all your press releases, don't forget to say how much it is damaging the search for justice for Jennifer, will you?

If you need any help with languages for the worldwide ones, just let me know.

 

[stayhomemom]

a quick question not sure if i am able to say this but if not i am very sorry please let me know...can you collect an life insurance policy on someone if they find their body????

 

[ana]

a quick question not sure if i am able to say this but if not i am very sorry please let me know...can you collect an life insurance policy on someone if they find their body????

it is my understanding that there has to be a body or be declared legally dead in court.

 

[zwiebel]

Not until a death certificate is issued, as far as I know.

Insurance companies may delay payments in certain circumstances, I believe. I suspect this case may be one of them.

 

[stayhomemom]

i asked about the life insurance policy cause my understanding was that the LE searched the area where JR body was found prior to finding her there and was wondering she was placed later on so GR could collect couuld that be a possiblity????

 

[zwiebel]

Well, we don't have any named persons of interest in this case, so I think it is best not to speculate about this specifically.

But I would say if some random killer had managed to insure Jennifer and wanted to get the money as quickly as possible and get everything put to bed, so to speak.....then that might well be a possibility.

 

[zwiebel]

Quick shout out for all the people at Chenango Sheriff's Department.

Thank you for all you have done, and will do, for Jennifer.

And humble, grateful thanks for all those who have sacrificed their lives in the past in the pursuit of justice. Hands across the ocean to you.

http://www.chenangosheriff.us/memorial page.htm

 

[Ace85FL]

There's an angle that we've been overlooking in regards to the cell phone...

I've seen people on here saying that GR couldn't have used the app because the phone was found in an dead signal zone.

I've seen others mention that the phone was found just outside of the dead-signal zone.

But I think about it, and that could be a clue that rules out another aspect of this case.

Early on, many were under the assumption that she had run away with someone from out of the area, and may have ditched her phone.

That's a highly unlikely circumstance given the type of person that Jennifer was, and the love that she had for her children.

But I thought more into, and it dawned on me... the location.

It's a dead-signal zone.

If the perpetrator was from outside of the area, it's highly unlikely that they would spend an hour or so looking for a dead signal zone to toss the phone.

The fact that the phone was found just outside of a dead signal zone could indicate that it was tossed believing that they were still in range of the dead signal zone, so as not to be found.

Of all the places for one to ditch the phone, especially on Route 23, the perp ditched it in an area where people in the past have complained of bad phone reception... which indicates to me... it's someone local... and not someone who came to the area from outside of the area for Jennifer to "run away" with.

Someone who was familiar enough with that area and that particular stretch of 23 having a long history of being a dead signal zone because of the hills blocking the cell tower signals in that stretch.

It's possible that 23 was the route of choice, because of the dead signal zones along it.

It's very possible that the phone was ditched where it was because the person planned to move to higher ground up a hill (possibly up Moon Hill Road), which would render a signal and the ability to track the route.

So it's possible that the phone was ditched first at the Moon Hill Road Intersection, then moving up Moon Hill Road to take the back roads (possibly to Fred Stewart Road to Center Road), so as not to be seen on the main roadway.

Dispose of Jennifer's body, and then head East on Center Road, turn right, then head south.

Turn right at the SR-23/Reservoir Hill Road intersection, pass the reservoir and head down Reservoir Hill Road back to Moon Hill/Blackman Road.

 

[Abigail]

OT a little but since so many of you have a better understanding of these situations - I know it can take 6-8 weeks for autopsy results - but is it normal for LE to wait for these before making an arrest even if they have some evidence? Do they have to share the results with her family? (or I assume only GR since next of kin?) I guess I am wondering if its possible that COD may not be released at all even to her family.

I recently read one case (Drew Peterson?? Can't quite remember) where the actual COD was NOT revealed -- not even at trial. Just that it was homicide. I think if an arrest is made, that certain details (but not all) have to be released to the defense attorneys. But LE does not have to announce COD to pubic, nor do they have to share the results with GR.

And yes, LE can wait until more evidence is in before making an arrest. They may be consulting with FBI to confirm some of the forensic evidence they have. Especially considering the 3 trials they just went through in convicting a wife killer (although I don't think evidence was in question -- it was more issues with venue and competent counsel and that sort of thing, as I understand (didn't really follow the story).

 

[thefox]

There's an angle that we've been overlooking in regards to the cell phone...

I've seen people on here saying that GR couldn't have used the app because the phone was found in an dead signal zone.

I've seen others mention that the phone was found just outside of the dead-signal zone.

But I think about it, and that could be a clue that rules out another aspect of this case.

Early on, many were under the assumption that she had run away with someone from out of the area, and may have ditched her phone.

That's a highly unlikely circumstance given the type of person that Jennifer was, and the love that she had for her children.

But I thought more into, and it dawned on me... the location.

It's a dead-signal zone.

If the perpetrator was from outside of the area, it's highly unlikely that they would spend an hour or so looking for a dead signal zone to toss the phone.

The fact that the phone was found just outside of a dead signal zone could indicate that it was tossed believing that they were still in range of the dead signal zone, so as not to be found.

Of all the places for one to ditch the phone, especially on Route 23, the perp ditched it in an area where people in the past have complained of bad phone reception... which indicates to me... it's someone local... and not someone who came to the area from outside of the area for Jennifer to "run away" with.

Someone who was familiar enough with that area and that particular stretch of 23 having a long history of being a dead signal zone because of the hills blocking the cell tower signals in that stretch.

It's possible that 23 was the route of choice, because of the dead signal zones along it.

It's very possible that the phone was ditched where it was because the person planned to move to higher ground up a hill (possibly up Moon Hill Road), which would render a signal and the ability to track the route.

So it's possible that the phone was ditched first at the Moon Hill Road Intersection, then moving up Moon Hill Road to take the back roads (possibly to Fred Stewart Road to Center Road), so as not to be seen on the main roadway.

Dispose of Jennifer's body, and then head East on Center Road, turn right, then head south.

Turn right at the SR-23/Reservoir Hill Road intersection, pass the reservoir and head down Reservoir Hill Road back to Moon Hill/Blackman Road.

Read back and you will see its not a dead zone for AT&T.

 

[Abigail]

BBM: Something GR never bothered to do - and discouraged the public from helping with


From a paper published by RMIT University (in Melbourne, Australia)
http://mams.rmit.edu.au/yi0rqs5ybt9.pdf

Yes, I was reading through some of the older threads last night - I had read them when I first joined, but was taking in a lot of info then, but anyway, yes, he WAS discouraging searches. What possible (innocent) reason could there be for that???

And...yep, I did read (in the old threads here) that his affair with his running partner WAS public knowledge before Ms. Caron announced it to the press. Astounding that a "one time tryst" was picked up by the locals -- pretty sharp cookies, those Chenango folks.:rocker:

 

[Sharoneonta]

Yes, I was reading through some of the older threads last night - I had read them when I first joined, but was taking in a lot of info then, but anyway, yes, he WAS discouraging searches. What possible (innocent) reason could there be for that???

And...yep, I did read (in the old threads here) that his affair with his running partner WAS public knowledge before Ms. Caron announced it to the press. Astounding that a "one time tryst" was picked up by the locals -- pretty sharp cookies, those Chenango folks.:rocker:

The declaration of innocence often overshadows doing things an innocent person would do. IMO

"Do not search for my wife, she ran away" as opposed to accepting any and all help finding her, regardless of what you think the outcome might be, you look! Baffles me, always has.

 

[Abigail]

I think it's preposterous to in once sentence alledge that someone was depressed and in the next to describe them as changing because they suddenly wear nail polish.

I don't believe any of it but IMO, a person who is depressed doesn't awaken one day and decide to do their nails or care about the appearance. In fact, it's typically the other way around.

IMO, I believe that GR led the disapperance by initially claiming that she "would never leave her family" and once that didn't "stick," the theory was that she left her family for someone else.

In fact, IMO, I believe that CC helped with this theory. They both fed off of each other, IMO.

Now what? Where are the theories now? She didn't disappear herself and she didn't leave her family. No one randomly killed her. We haven't gotten a warning from local LE about a predator.

GR's behavior from day one has been irrehensible.

Well...that's what I'm wondering...because darned if I can't find any statements like that being made BEFORE L&M came on the scene. Of course, CC wouldn't have done that intentionally. But she did want to focus on finding a "living Jennifer" -- and so she no doubt presented several example to GR of cases in her experience where people were missing and then turned up alive (to encourage and support him, of course, because that was her stated mission), and he probably grabbed that and ran with it (except that he seems to have mixed 2 potential scenarios all up together) because then suddenly we were hearing that Jennifer had "changed" in the last 6 to 9 months and was so depressed she started buying new clothes and wearing nail polish and dressing up.

So...unless we can get some corroboration from her family or her priest or friends of hers (who weren't sleeping with her husband) about this horrific change -- shall we consider this another fabrication meant to disparage her character and distract???

 

[Ace85FL]

Read back and you will see its not a dead zone for AT&T.

It depends if the perp knew that.

I was referring though to the fact that there was a dead signal zone right there almost.

The phone may actually have been ditched beyond the range of that dead signal zone.

The fact that it was ditched near a known dead signal zone, could be an indication that it's a local.

If it's a local person that travels that stretch daily, but doesn't have AT&T as a provider, they're possibly likely to get dropped calls. They would also be likely to know the boundaries of the dead signal zone. They could also recall the boundaries from signal troubles with former providers.

If it's a local person that doesn't travel that stretch of road often, it's possible they may have knowledge that there is a dead signal area there, but they might not know where it starts and where it ends or they may have some slight knowledge of the boundaries, from small talk perhaps.

That could explain why the phone was ditched outside of the dead signal zone. Perhaps having knowledge of one being there, but lacking knowledge of the precise boundary.

It's also possible that they may not have known that AT&T has a strong signal in the area, but ditched it anyway. Plus, they most likely wouldn't have tried to use it.

If it was a person from outside of town that did this... why would they have randomly ditched a victim's phone in an area known to be a dead signal spot ever since the late 90's Nokia phone days?

It could be mere coincidence.

 

[Sharoneonta]

Master manipulator of women: Needs ideas about scenarios that could have taken place when a mom goes missing.

Female missing person organization leader full of alternate scenarios.

Bingo.

I think he's smart, just not as smart as he thinks he is. IMO ego is going to be his downfall.

 

[Abigail]

a quick question not sure if i am able to say this but if not i am very sorry please let me know...can you collect an life insurance policy on someone if they find their body????

Yes, but if the death is suspicious, the insurance company will wait until COD is announced and the beneficiary is cleared of all suspicion.

In fact, insurance companies have their own investigators and can (and will) investigate a suspicious death on their own.

 

[Abigail]

Yes, but if the death is suspicious, the insurance company will wait until COD is announced and the beneficiary is cleared of all suspicion.

In fact, insurance companies have their own investigators and can (and will) investigate a suspicious death on their own.

In this case, the life insurance company not only demanded that the beneficiary be cleared of suspicion, but ALSO that LE provided them with the name of the person charged with the crime.

http://www.termlifeinsurancenews.com/blog/life-insurance-benefits-homicide

"In 2009, an Illinois mother was denied benefits on a policy after her daughter was murdered. (3) The daughter applied for a life insurance policy with AFLAC and named her mother as the beneficiary. Shortly afterward, she was murdered by blunt force trauma and strangulation. The Chicago police cleared the mother of the crime and told AFLAC as much but wouldn’t put it in writing because the case was still under investigation. AFLAC denied the claim stating “insufficient proof of loss” and stated that they require the name of the person charged with the crime, even though no one had been charged at that time."

 

[Abigail]

There's an angle that we've been overlooking in regards to the cell phone...

I've seen people on here saying that GR couldn't have used the app because the phone was found in an dead signal zone.

I've seen others mention that the phone was found just outside of the dead-signal zone.

But I think about it, and that could be a clue that rules out another aspect of this case.

Early on, many were under the assumption that she had run away with someone from out of the area, and may have ditched her phone.

That's a highly unlikely circumstance given the type of person that Jennifer was, and the love that she had for her children.

But I thought more into, and it dawned on me... the location.

It's a dead-signal zone.

If the perpetrator was from outside of the area, it's highly unlikely that they would spend an hour or so looking for a dead signal zone to toss the phone.

The fact that the phone was found just outside of a dead signal zone could indicate that it was tossed believing that they were still in range of the dead signal zone, so as not to be found.

Of all the places for one to ditch the phone, especially on Route 23, the perp ditched it in an area where people in the past have complained of bad phone reception... which indicates to me... it's someone local... and not someone who came to the area from outside of the area for Jennifer to "run away" with.

Someone who was familiar enough with that area and that particular stretch of 23 having a long history of being a dead signal zone because of the hills blocking the cell tower signals in that stretch.

It's possible that 23 was the route of choice, because of the dead signal zones along it.

It's very possible that the phone was ditched where it was because the person planned to move to higher ground up a hill (possibly up Moon Hill Road), which would render a signal and the ability to track the route.

So it's possible that the phone was ditched first at the Moon Hill Road Intersection, then moving up Moon Hill Road to take the back roads (possibly to Fred Stewart Road to Center Road), so as not to be seen on the main roadway.

Dispose of Jennifer's body, and then head East on Center Road, turn right, then head south.

Turn right at the SR-23/Reservoir Hill Road intersection, pass the reservoir and head down Reservoir Hill Road back to Moon Hill/Blackman Road.

Good thoughts...once again...we keep coming back to a local person.

But...I'm a little confused...I just have a very plain-Jane phone that doesn't do anything special...so I don't really understand all this phone technology...but if the phone was in a dead zone, would it be able to "ping" with the phone app???

OK, nevermind...now I get that it wasn't actually a dead zone for all companies