NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #2

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If there was no rape than it was someone who just wanted her dead..hmmm


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Detective Boyce had said he didn't finish the rape so I'm assuming she fought back so hard he probably didn't expect it and killed her on purpose or on accident and then fled the scene. She was found with her shorts down and sports bra up.

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If there was no rape than it was someone who just wanted her dead..hmmm



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No, she was raped. The rapist is not required to "finish" (ejaculate, in case I'm not clear enough here) for it to be considered rape.

I'm wondering if perhaps she incapacitated him with kicks to the groin so he couldn't perform the rape as intended, and then he raped her with something else that didn't result in semen being found.

Pure speculation at this point.

jmo, with apologies for graphic discussion
 
Detective Boyce had said he didn't finish the rape so I'm assuming she fought back so hard he probably didn't expect it and killed her on purpose or on accident and then fled the scene. She was found with her shorts down and sports bra up.

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This could be another reason. These are old stats, but you can get the idea.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1795615
 
I'm convinced with high probability the Morningside Heights rapist is the killer of Karina Vetrano. Look closely. Almost a perfect match in facial features.
1b913eee5d4bbcd85dfcd4522486dc9e.jpg



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They share some similarities but I see more differences then anything. Different chins, different noses, etc
 
He may not have finished...but he raped her. 2X.

With or without "finishing" there will be DNA present. Hair. Skin.

And I pray that he has been walking around in agony since that day. KWIM. And that is nothing compared to what he is in for once he is caught.
 
He may not have finished...but he raped her. 2X.

With or without "finishing" there will be DNA present. Hair. Skin.

And I pray that he has been walking around in agony since that day. KWIM. And that is nothing compared to what he is in for once he is caught.

Yes, but I've been trying to address the issue of no semen being found.

I had the idea that perhaps Karina kicked him in the groin and he was incapacitated in that regard. If that happened, I would imagine he would be in pain and very angry, which would escalate the violence against her. If he was thus injured and angered, I think the injuries and anger might have lingered and might have been noticeable to others in his life. Not just scratches, but groin injury and anger.

She was raped, there was DNA, but there was apparently no semen.

speculation only, jmo
 
I'm blind or something. I can't see it.


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Use this as guide to one of the faces, where you see eyes and a nose, parts of a face in blue.

km ccvvv - Edited.jpg

xc.jpg Now, that's from the same image and there is a brownish face in the same place. It looks like a guy, no beard with short hair combed to the side, light T shirt.
 
Yes, but I've been trying to address the issue of no semen being found.

I had the idea that perhaps Karina kicked him in the groin and he was incapacitated in that regard. If that happened, I would imagine he would be in pain and very angry, which would escalate the violence against her. If he was thus injured and angered, I think the injuries and anger might have lingered and might have been noticeable to others in his life. Not just scratches, but groin injury and anger.

She was raped, there was DNA, but there was apparently no semen.

speculation only, jmo
According to the chief detective, DNA was found on her neck, under her fingernails, and on her cell phone Attempted sexual assault, but no evidence of a sexual assault.

Time stamp 3:30
[video=youtube;SaAvqheyErw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaAvqheyErw[/video]
 
Use this as guide to one of the faces, where you see eyes and a nose, parts of a face in blue.

View attachment 101385

View attachment 101386 Now, that's from the same image and there is a brownish face in the same place. It looks like a guy, no beard with short hair combed to the side, light T shirt.
I see him. OMG, he just looked right out at me. Your second picture, just north of the center of the image. That's crazy. Amazing! Great work.

Yikes.
 
I see him. OMG, he just looked right out at me. Your second picture, just north of the center of the image. That's crazy. Amazing! Great work.

Yikes.

Right, exactly, Coastal, thank you for giving it a look. That guy is there throughout the video, then it looks like there's a man next to him, too, if you look back at the previously posted images. Still with the same image, the purple area that is shaped like a head center/left. Look at what color the T shirts looks like in the corresponding one, if it isn't just a cloud and indeed two faces, with a blue light cast from whatever device they're holding...

KV rt pff - Edited.jpg

KV rt pf.jpg

KV sobffff - Edited.jpg

focusing only where the purplish face with the reddish top, now can you see eyes?
 
I can't see it. Can you tell me where in the video do you see this image? I know she turns to look towards the left, I don't see anything
 
I can't see it. Can you tell me where in the video do you see this image? I know she turns to look towards the left, I don't see anything

I understand, it's tough to see. Opening the images and zooming in and out may help you, from these previous posts. It's from the oft posted Crime Watch Daily segment. I'll keep the cool aid on ice for you.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...s-3-Aug-2016-Thread-2&p=12804420#post12804420

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...s-3-Aug-2016-Thread-2&p=12803743#post12803743

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...s-3-Aug-2016-Thread-2&p=12804284#post12804284

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...s-3-Aug-2016-Thread-2&p=12803708#post12803708
 
According to the chief detective, DNA was found on her neck, under her fingernails, and on her cell phone Attempted sexual assault, but no evidence of a sexual assault.

Time stamp 3:30
[video=youtube;SaAvqheyErw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SaAvqheyErw[/video]

?? I thought she was raped 2x?
 
I think the way the shadows fell, it may have been a hard place to make things out clearly. Let's say she noticed somebody there, she may have been trying to make out what they were doing, she may have thought it odd, as we do now, thus looked again and again. Whatever she was able to see at the closest point to that spot, as she seems to look right there passing by, did not cause her to stop running. There are objects that are not plants or trees or stumps or boulders around the figure that are unnatural, man made and reflect light differently, it seems to my eye.



hmm... going off your idea, Bklyngrl007. Just thinking out loud (speculating awful stuff, sorry) Two people, could be or more with, maybe a bike, maybe a computer, hand held devices, kind of like a perfectly planned gang rape gone wrong, if not shapes in clouds? LE seems pretty sure it's one left handed person who may have grabbed her, according to Chief Det. Boyce. Interesting, because could that explain the lack of tips? The only people who know what happened are covering up for each other? Then, the very nature of a coordinated crime like that would have been to provide maximum cover for the one, two or/and another individual. So, following that logic or leap, it would have been two or three young men never in the system with deep bonds of loyalty trying to pull this off. Then having it all fall apart. So two or three young men, one really beat up, told a story that isn't true to everybody else they know about what happened to the beat up guy, possibly? Maybe family took care of any wounds or he crept under a rug, but it must have hurt, considering Karina's strength and the struggle she seems to have put up, with weeds still clutched in her hands.

I've been asking myself a few of these things. This whole case is sounding suspect. Too many unknowns!
 
It's impossible to believe that they only have 1 video surveillance of her on the streets. I'm going to guess that many of those homes have cameras especially near the park since there are so many homeless, drug addicts, fisherman or whoever else they feel may pose a threat to them.. Someone must have saw or even caught something on their home camera. Even the time she was running, it's a time when people are still getting home from work. IMO someone knows something but won't come forward. Maybe they are too afraid or maybe they know the person who did this to her and is protecting them or maybe the person who did this was someone from the neighborhood. Maybe the utility working knows more than he's saying, maybe he gave a false description to throw LE and everyone else off long enough for the real killer to skip town. Where is the utility worker anyway? Wouldn't the guy be around especially with such a known case. I know if I were the utility guy I'd want to remain active
 
The police checked every single camera in that entire area, and were unable to locate any additional footage of her or anything suspicious.

It's impossible to believe that they only have 1 video surveillance of her on the streets. I'm going to guess that many of those homes have cameras especially near the park since there are so many homeless, drug addicts, fisherman or whoever else they feel may pose a threat to them.. Someone must have saw or even caught something on their home camera. Even the time she was running, it's a time when people are still getting home from work. IMO someone knows something but won't come forward. Maybe they are too afraid or maybe they know the person who did this to her and is protecting them or maybe the person who did this was someone from the neighborhood. Maybe the utility working knows more than he's saying, maybe he gave a false description to throw LE and everyone else off long enough for the real killer to skip town. Where is the utility worker anyway? Wouldn't the guy be around especially with such a known case. I know if I were the utility guy I'd want to remain active
 
I really do admire all the hard work that some have put in to trying to figure out if someone was watching her in the weeds when she ran on that road, but I have to say I honestly don't see anything.

I mean sure if I stare at the images long enough I can make out several different potential "people" in it, all in different positions....but it feels more like how when your eyes see things in clouds and your brain tries to make sense of the shapes with familiar objects, in other words it feels more like trying to make something be seen that isn't actually there.

I really for one don't think two guys were just hanging out in the dense muggy, buggy weeds with two bikes and a laptop.
Not only do I not see it, but really who brings a laptop into the weeds like that. IF There were people there wouldn't it make a whole lot more sense that they would have used their cell phones to video her or alert someone she was coming...but a laptop? Something like that doesn't make for an easy getaway.
 
It's impossible to believe that they only have 1 video surveillance of her on the streets. I'm going to guess that many of those homes have cameras especially near the park since there are so many homeless, drug addicts, fisherman or whoever else they feel may pose a threat to them.. Someone must have saw or even caught something on their home camera. Even the time she was running, it's a time when people are still getting home from work. IMO someone knows something but won't come forward. Maybe they are too afraid or maybe they know the person who did this to her and is protecting them or maybe the person who did this was someone from the neighborhood. Maybe the utility working knows more than he's saying, maybe he gave a false description to throw LE and everyone else off long enough for the real killer to skip town. Where is the utility worker anyway? Wouldn't the guy be around especially with such a known case. I know if I were the utility guy I'd want to remain active

They don't only have 1, but they will not release them all. The video was only released to hopefully freshen someones memory of that day who may not have thought they saw her but after seeing video may have remembered seeing her. They didn't release it so the public could find someone in the weeds. LE has gone over each video. The utility guy is most likely active with LE. There is no need for him to go public. I wouldn't. If I potentially saw a suspect and I am giving LE criticial information that could make a break in the case, I wouldn't want to be publicly known for my safety.

I honestly think the perp was on the pathway and came in through the belt parkway side and exited there. There are no cameras there besides a Traffic cam on Erskine St. You still can not see anyone exiting onto the Bike path by Spring creek park.

If he came in from the Crossbay Blvd side and went under the bridge by the shore and followed the path then he may be on Vetro's cameras, but he could also not be.


Here is a map where the green shows where a perp could enter and never be seen (even the shore line if by boat, but I don't believe he came by boat) and red where he would be seen by civilians and surveillance.
ad34b001d5f92a650d672319f9216d39.jpg

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Also, just to add, she really wasn't running that far on the street when the cameras would catch her. She entered the park pretty quickly where the cameras would not have seen her based on descriptions of the weeds.
 
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