NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #3

[JEF]

She ran that same route every day?

 

[GutInstinct]

Glad to see you pitch in again, GutInstinct. You had asked for some guesses or maybe mapping of the places around the Bay that would have a view of Spring Creek and the running paths, IIRC? I found that poignant as well.

Thank you, sleuthers, for all the updates. Thoughts and prayers going out to all who care for Karina, her family, friends, community, and for LE and all who pursue justice for her.

Karina Vetrano Case Map here ~ click on the icon, it'll link to a very precise diagram Chief Boyce shares in an MSM report: View attachment 102580

Awww thanks HG! Very cool image. Yes, I had asked that q. Thanks also for kind thoughts InTheDetails & for info I didn't know - Momofourboys.

 

[GutInstinct]

OMG FindHG - this is amazing - sleuthing from above - thank you SO much for sharing this link and for your super sleuthing talents.

 

[GutInstinct]

Thanks, I'd missed that. I've now noted it on the case map with a marker at 164th Ave. & 83rd St. Do you have a source link I could add to it?

Am I interpreting this case map correctly? Was 'disturbed man' actually found on the same block as the V home; outside the neighborhood rectangular block, but parallel or directly behind this exact same block?

Hmm. Trying to find statistics on murderers who return to their crime scene.

 

[Forager]

Am I interpreting this case map correctly? Was 'disturbed man' actually found on the same block as the V home; outside the neighborhood rectangular block, but parallel or directly behind this exact same block?

Hmm. Trying to find statistics on murderers who return to their crime scene.

I guess you could put it that way, but he was described as being "in the weeds", which I take to mean in the park. Here's what I have on the map for the location at which he was arrested:

"The Howard Beach Citizens Patrol facebook has a little info on it. The screams were heard near 83rd and 164th street which is the exact location Karina had entered the park at.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...56727651238054
"Two incidents our patrol assisted the NYPD with:
First:
At 9:20pm a Resident called our patrol phone number to inform us they heard a man screaming from inside the weeds at 83rd Street and 164th. Ave. We notified a passing police vehicle. The SRG 5 NYPD Patrol asked us to light up an area of the weeds from the street level while they went into the weeded area of the park. They were able to find a man screaming and was considered an emotional disturbed person, and was arrested and taken to the hospital for evaluation." As posted by WS member LauraNYC83 here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...s-3-Aug-2016-Thread-3&p=12840034#post12840034



from the case map

 

[FindHG]

OMG FindHG - this is amazing - sleuthing from above - thank you SO much for sharing this link and for your super sleuthing talents.

Forager and Lauranyc deserve all the credit for pulling it together and all, going off Eucalyputz initial work. I barely sleuth compared to others here. Thank you for your kind words.

 

[JEF]

Thanks for that great map. From what I can tell from past articles, it sounds as if KV had been recently jogging alone because of the back injury. It's possible she could have posted about that on social media. Was her FB account public? It also sounds as if not that many homeless people actually lived in the park. With the weeds as high as they were, it would have been fairly low-risk to enter the park and hide there in wait for her. Sounds less like a vagrant and more like someone who planned this out in advance, to some degree. The sloppiness of the crime scene may be explained by the viciousness of the fight. Things escalated far beyond what the killer expected. He was in pain, bleeding and needed to get out of the park because of the time. And there were no prints on the phone, only DNA. Maybe he didn't have time to search for it, maybe he wasn't concerned because his DNA was not in the database and he had no close connection to Vetrano. Could someone have parked on the beltway and get out of the vicinity quickly? Is there direct access to that road from the park? I seem to recall that there was? The DNA profile just came back in late August. But they would have had preliminary results far earlier, right? Is that what led Phil Vetrano to say the case was "totally unrelated" to Vanessa Marcotte"s case? Are police still saying that?One last question: does anyone know which shoe was missing and if it was ever found?Thanks in advance. Getting up to speed on this case.

 

[JEF]

Did she use map my run? Was her account set to public?

 

[JEF]

It might be possible the cell phone was left at the scene intentionally. The killer may have wanted the body found quickly.

 

[Momoffourboys]

IMO It is more than likely that KV posted on social media about running alone. Probably something about dad hurting his back, but, she still needed her workout. People who are hooked on SM don't even realize how vulnerable they are. I know this, first hand. Before my oldest gets out of bed, the first selfie is posted. Such a strange phenomenon.

 

[Periwinkl3]

I guess you could put it that way, but he was described as being "in the weeds", which I take to mean in the park. Here's what I have on the map for the location at which he was arrested:

"The Howard Beach Citizens Patrol facebook has a little info on it. The screams were heard near 83rd and 164th street which is the exact location Karina had entered the park at.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...56727651238054
"Two incidents our patrol assisted the NYPD with:
First:
At 9:20pm a Resident called our patrol phone number to inform us they heard a man screaming from inside the weeds at 83rd Street and 164th. Ave. We notified a passing police vehicle. The SRG 5 NYPD Patrol asked us to light up an area of the weeds from the street level while they went into the weeded area of the park. They were able to find a man screaming and was considered an emotional disturbed person, and was arrested and taken to the hospital for evaluation." As posted by WS member LauraNYC83 here: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...s-3-Aug-2016-Thread-3&p=12840034#post12840034

View attachment 102613

from the case map

Thank you for clarifying this. So easy to get turned around with the use of numbers for all roads, streets and avenues in an unfamiliar place.

The term "the weeds" is used in other NYC neighborhoods to refer to invasive shoreline reeds (phragmites). They're not easy to walk through because they can grow tall, have woody stems and grow in marshland, making an area inhospitable. We've always stayed away from them because ticks like them, as do other insects and animals.

Whoever attacked KV had to be intimately familiar with all that, as well as easiest paths in and out of the weeds. In any neighborhood, the kids know every opening in every fence, the wasps' nests and animal habitats, good hiding places and so on. A perp who grew up in the HB area would know the same, even a kid from a nearby place not technically HB, such as Ozone Park. He knows the weeds and is not afraid to go into them, as a non-local might be. He dragged her 15 feet into them.

 

[Forager]

Thank you for clarifying this. So easy to get turned around with the use of numbers for all roads, streets and avenues in an unfamiliar place.

The term "the weeds" is used in other NYC neighborhoods to refer to invasive shoreline reeds (phragmites). They're not easy to walk through because they can grow tall, have woody stems and grow in marshland, making an area inhospitable. We've always stayed away from them because ticks like them, as do other insects and animals.

Whoever attacked KV had to be intimately familiar with all that, as well as easiest paths in and out of the weeds. In any neighborhood, the kids know every opening in every fence, the wasps' nests and animal habitats, good hiding places and so on. A perp who grew up in the HB area would know the same, even a kid from a nearby place not technically HB, such as Ozone Park. He knows the weeds and is not afraid to go into them, as a non-local might be. He dragged her 15 feet into them.

Ok, so if you're going to identify the weeds in Latin - and I was impressed - I get to nitpick about distances. I've seen that "body found 15 feet off the path" reference in a couple of stories, but we have a better source that puts it at 37' 0". It's from a plot that the NYPD made and used to talk a reporter, Chris Hansen of Crime Watch Daily (see Youtube video) thru the crime. The distance from the edge of the path to the body reads 37' 0".

The NYPD plot also has a mapmarker for the cell phone (upper left in the second screenshot below). It's a little blurry, but I think that it's showing a distance of 73' feet from the body to the cellphone (in the upper left of the second picture). I've seen this distance estimated at 50' to 60' feet in other press reports.

.



Screenshots, above, of NYPD map plots.

I've tried to be faithful to those distances on the case map, but it isn't exact.

 

[Razz]

Thanks for that great map. From what I can tell from past articles, it sounds as if KV had been recently jogging alone because of the back injury. It's possible she could have posted about that on social media. Was her FB account public? It also sounds as if not that many homeless people actually lived in the park. With the weeds as high as they were, it would have been fairly low-risk to enter the park and hide there in wait for her. Sounds less like a vagrant and more like someone who planned this out in advance, to some degree. The sloppiness of the crime scene may be explained by the viciousness of the fight. Things escalated far beyond what the killer expected. He was in pain, bleeding and needed to get out of the park because of the time. And there were no prints on the phone, only DNA. Maybe he didn't have time to search for it, maybe he wasn't concerned because his DNA was not in the database and he had no close connection to Vetrano. Could someone have parked on the beltway and get out of the vicinity quickly? Is there direct access to that road from the park? I seem to recall that there was? The DNA profile just came back in late August. But they would have had preliminary results far earlier, right? Is that what led Phil Vetrano to say the case was "totally unrelated" to Vanessa Marcotte"s case? Are police still saying that?One last question: does anyone know which shoe was missing and if it was ever found?Thanks in advance. Getting up to speed on this case.

That's very interesting that no fingerprints were found on the phone. Was it wiped clean?

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

 

[JEF]

I can't find any references to prints on her phone. Was that reported or do you know it some other way?

Det. Boyce said the finger prints on her phone matched hers and the killers so I'm guessing the prints on phone were same as what was fou on her boday. They didn't say there were any other prints than Karina and her killer.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[JEF]

See post above. I just did a search and can only find a reference to DNA. Going to look at the map to see where phone was found. If it looks like it was thrown, then no prints implies either it was wiped or the killer wore gloves.

That's very interesting that no fingerprints were found on the phone. Was it wiped clean?

Sent from my SM-G386T using Tapatalk

 

[JEF]

Thanks for posting those distances and maps, Forager. This has probably been posted but does it look like the fight initially took place where the earbuds were found and she was dragged to the other side after she died (to hide her in the marsh?)? Or is it possible she broke away and he caught up/killed her on the other side of the path?? The phone is further along, i.e. 87 feet further than she ran? That's too far for a throw and it doesn't look like it KV dropped it during the struggle. Did the killer drop it accidentally or, maybe, on purpose?

 

[Periwinkl3]

Forager said: "Ok, so if you're going to identify the weeds in Latin - and I was impressed - I get to nitpick about distances...."

I found this about that, lol: "Phragmites (frag-mite-eez) comes from the Greek word phragma meaning “fence"

but thanks for prodding me into looking it up! I used that name because I heard it years ago at a local NYC environmental education program for families. (There are also more specific Latin names for the different kinds.) And feel free to nitpick anything I say, please!

Useful correction as to the distance away from the path KV was found, tyvm. 37 feet is considerably more than 15. She must have fought valiantly, rest her soul.

Innocent until proven guilty, of course. But I just keep going over what we know about MF's presence there on 9/27. I wonder if he was looking for something that he had lost.

 

[Momoffourboys]

See post above. I just did a search and can only find a reference to DNA. Going to look at the map to see where phone was found. If it looks like it was thrown, then no prints implies either it was wiped or the killer wore gloves.

I remember, weeks ago, reading that KV was attacked from behind and dragged through the weeds. In which case, IMO, her attacker/murderer never touched her phone and she dropped it when she was attacked.

I do remember reading that attacker's DNA or prints were on phone, but honestly, MSM is less than reliable. IMO

 

[Lauranyc83]

I remember, weeks ago, reading that KV was attacked from behind and dragged through the weeds. In which case, IMO, her attacker/murderer never touched her phone and she dropped it when she was attacked.

I do remember reading that attacker's DNA or prints were on phone, but honestly, MSM is less than reliable. IMO

I have to go back and watch the Crime Watch Daily, but I think that's where I heard Det. Boyce talk about the phone being thrown into the weeds by the perp.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[JEF]

I've been reading her blog. I didn't realize she wrote so much poetry.