NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #4

[Aleph]

IMO it is no set up because there is no way that i am aware someone can plant another person's fingerprints or a palm print on a victim's body.
If LE have all the DNA evidence then they have their culprit, and his family needs to stop with the nonsense and let the investigation do their job for justice for KV and her heartbroken family.

His family members are victims, too. And while I agree that the chance of him being framed is extremely unlikely, CL's relatives are familiar in a way we are not with one of the country's most notoriously racist and corrupt police departments. They have experiences we do not.


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[chrissybk]

His family members are victims, too. And while I agree that the chance of him being framed is extremely unlikely, CL's relatives are familiar in a way we are not with one of the country's most notoriously racist and corrupt police departments. They have experiences we do not.


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I agree that his family members are victims, we judge them for what they are saying when we are not in their shoes. Now, I don't think I would ever do what they are doing if I was God forbid, in their place, but at the end of the day nobody knows how they would react unless they were in that situation themselves.

As for the racism that exists in the police department, I agree, I have seen instances of it myself in this neighborhood. But I don't believe that means that every single law enforcement officer is a racist looking for someone to frame, because I have also seen good things from police in this neighborhood. Did his parents have bad experiences with police? Maybe they have, but their son was never arrested before, only given summonses, so I don't know how bad that experience would be considered.

Another thing I wanted to touch on: in my opinion certain terms can have racist connotations, (terms like "you people", "these people" or "those people" ) when used in a certain context. For example, if an Asian guy was robbed by a Muslim guy and the Asian guy stated something like "he stole my money, why are you surprised? That's what these people do." I would take that statement as meaning that's what Muslims do, they rob people.

ENY and Brownsville are both predominantly black areas. There are also many West Indians in these areas as well. Lots of West Indians do not like Black Americans. They call them lazy and entitled and look down on them in general. CL's dad in early interviews made this statement: “He has never done anything — nothing in his whole life,” Richard Lewis said. “He wouldn’t have done it, because we live in an area where these people do a lot of things — a lot of hurt — and try to push it on other people, and he wouldn’t have.”

I immediately took this statement as being derogatory to the Black American residents in their neighborhood. Basically saying that "these people" are the real bad guys, and his son is not one of them. The Lewis family is using race to say that their son was framed, but they were the only ones to show any kind of racism toward anyone imo.

 

[Madeleine74]

One can imagine all sorts of scenarios but the one CL told does not match the ones being imagined. And does it matter in the end? CL and KV's paths crossed in a cruel twist of fate. He didn't know her; she didn't know him, it was a crime of opportunity and a monster did a monstrous thing. He attacked her, he left his DNA on her and on her phone, a full DNA profile was obtained in the lab and CL eventually and voluntarily submitted to have his cheek swabbed for DNA.

This is as straightforward and 'slam dunk' as it gets in a case. DNA, perp confesses, no one was trying to make this guy guilty, he did that himself because he committed the crime.

 

[jjenny]

His family members are victims, too. And while I agree that the chance of him being framed is extremely unlikely, CL's relatives are familiar in a way we are not with one of the country's most notoriously racist and corrupt police departments. They have experiences we do not.


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What exactly are his family members victims of?

 

[Inthedetails]

What exactly are his family members victims of?

On Websleuths, the families (of the victim, of the perp) are considered victims. That means we don't bash them or sleuth them.

 

[jjenny]

On Websleuths, the families (of the victim, of the perp) are considered victims. That means we don't bash them or sleuth them.

Well, I don't consider them victims. I haven't bashed them, I just fail to see what they are the victims of.

 

[Inthedetails]

Well, I don't consider them victims. I haven't bashed them, I just fail to see what they are the victims of.

It's a term used on WS to indicate family members are not perps and haven't committed a crime. Therefore we leave them alone, except we're allowed to discuss any statements they give.

That's my understanding of "victim" in terms of family members as defined by WS rules.

 

[Elley Mae]

His family members are victims, too. And while I agree that the chance of him being framed is extremely unlikely, CL's relatives are familiar in a way we are not with one of the country's most notoriously racist and corrupt police departments. They have experiences we do not.


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How is saying his family needs to stop with the nonsense bashing the family? :thinking:

 

[chrissybk]

It's a term used on WS to indicate family members are not perps and haven't committed a crime. Therefore we leave them alone, except we're allowed to discuss any statements they give.

That's my understanding of "victim" in terms of family members as defined by WS rules.

Thinking back, I remember how hard it was to think of Casey Anthony's parents as victims, but yea, I think you explained it just right.

 

[Elley Mae]

Well, I don't consider them victims. I haven't bashed them, I just fail to see what they are the victims of.

Talking

 

[mojook]

How is saying his family needs to stop with the nonsense bashing the family? :thinking:

Where does it say bashing? All it said was the family are considered victims - which is tru

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[observation]

Where does it say bashing? All it said was the family are considered victims - which is tru

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I think most of get that. What makes it so difficult to bite your tongue (or keypad) is when you get public commentary that is completely contrary to reality.


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[Elley Mae]

On Websleuths, the families (of the victim, of the perp) are considered victims. That means we don't bash them or sleuth them.

bbm, here

Quoted wrong post sorry, this one.

 

[Aleph]

I think that perps' family members are also considered victims because the perp's crime harms them too, and changes their lives irrevocably. They will lose this young man and any of the hopes and dreams they had for him. They are also unfairly associated with his actions.

Like many posters here, I've followed many cases and I have seen perps' friends and families react with shock and total denial, over and over again. I think this perp's family knew he had serious problems but nobody likes to think that their kid would rape and murder an innocent stranger.

As a postscript regarding the NYPD, one does not necessarily have to have an arrest record or a criminal history in order to have negative experiences with a racist police force. There's stop and frisk, for example. There's knowing that many of your friends and family have been victimized and targeted and that you could be next. If i were the black mother of a black son who had been accused of this crime, especially considering that the victim is the white daughter of a white cop, I'd be pretty paranoid about it and wondering about those DNA tests. Wouldn't you?


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[Elley Mae]

I think that perps' family members are also considered victims because the perp's crime harms them too, and changes their lives irrevocably. They will lose this young man and any of the hopes and dreams they had for him. They are also unfairly associated with his actions.

Like many posters here, I've followed many cases and I have seen perps' friends and families react with shock and total denial, over and over again. I think this perp's family knew he had serious problems but nobody likes to think that their kid would rape and murder an innocent stranger.

As a postscript regarding the NYPD, one does not necessarily have to have an arrest record or a criminal history in order to have negative experiences with a racist police force. There's stop and frisk, for example. There's knowing that many of your friends and family have been victimized and targeted and that you could be next. If i were the black mother of a black son who had been accused of this crime, especially considering that the victim is the white daughter of a white cop, I'd be pretty paranoid about it and wondering about those DNA tests. Wouldn't you?


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bbm He is a retired firefighter.

 

[Elley Mae]

His family members are victims, too. And while I agree that the chance of him being framed is extremely unlikely, CL's relatives are familiar in a way we are not with one of the country's most notoriously racist and corrupt police departments. They have experiences we do not.


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We are not suppose to talk bad about Police. jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

bbm, here

Quoted wrong post sorry, this one.

I don't know if you think I am calling anyone out for bashing because I haven't done that. I was trying to explain WS rules that apply to the entire WS community, not speaking to any individual or to any particular post.

Not sure how this got complicated....

 

[katydid23]

I think that perps' family members are also considered victims because the perp's crime harms them too, and changes their lives irrevocably. They will lose this young man and any of the hopes and dreams they had for him. They are also unfairly associated with his actions.

Like many posters here, I've followed many cases and I have seen perps' friends and families react with shock and total denial, over and over again. I think this perp's family knew he had serious problems but nobody likes to think that their kid would rape and murder an innocent stranger.

As a postscript regarding the NYPD, one does not necessarily have to have an arrest record or a criminal history in order to have negative experiences with a racist police force. There's stop and frisk, for example. There's knowing that many of your friends and family have been victimized and targeted and that you could be next. If i were the black mother of a black son who had been accused of this crime, especially considering that the victim is the white daughter of a white cop, I'd be pretty paranoid about it and wondering about those DNA tests. Wouldn't you?


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However, if my son, no matter what race or ethnicity, was sent home , and expelled from his school, because he threatened to stab the female students out of rage/ anger, and, if I had taken him to the ER on the day after the crime, because he had extensive scratches and an injured hand, then I would have less reason to believe it was all a frame job. JMO

 

[katydid23]

I do think it is interesting that the attack happened right when the suspect was to graduate from high school.

My friend is a long time High School teacher in an alternative high school for students with emotional issues/high risk issues/special needs.

She told me that graduation time is a very stressful time for many of her students. It is scary because of the big changes it brings for them. Many fear change in general. And some do not have great things too look forward to, like many mainstream students do.

So she said that there is often a lot of 'acting out' and a lot of drama going on at school as graduation approaches. Many of the kids don't know how to express the fears they have about what their future holds as the 'certainty' of school is ending for many of them.

It makes me wonder if the suspect may have been acting out in some of the same ways?

 

[Karinna]

His family members are victims, too. And while I agree that the chance of him being framed is extremely unlikely, CL's relatives are familiar in a way we are not with one of the country's most notoriously racist and corrupt police departments. They have experiences we do not.


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Well yes of course their lives will also be irrevocably changed too. I can't imagine.
And i understand what you're saying about the police in America.