NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #12

[nugzter]

Ummm. If Shannan got stuck in the muck, exactly how did animals remove her jeans? This doesn't make a lick of sense to me.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...ody_hunt_zVLudib1aATjWwSNyYgIRO#ixzz1gAFSS6OI

If her body has fully decomposed ( after a year and a half that is most likely the case) any mammal or bird could just grab on to the jeans and drag them away. They could scatter clothing in all directions and at various distances from the body. I found a link to typical marsh dwelling animals.
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/biomes/marsh/freshwaterprintout.shtml

Does anyone know if this a fresh or salt water marsh? I could look up what type of plant life we are looking at in the pics of the search area.

 

[Seaslug44]

Earlier yesterday, Gilbert’s driver, Mike Pak of Jersey City, said he hoped the case would soon be closed — and that he always believed Gilbert had been the victim of her own drug-induced panic.

“It seems like she ran into the marsh, her shoes got stuck, and she got stuck and her purse floated,” Pak told The Post.

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...ody_hunt_zVLudib1aATjWwSNyYgIRO#ixzz1gArp86Bo

Excuse me Mister Michael-Keep-Changing-My-Story-Pak, did you or did you not just state on international television on the A&E special that you knew from SG's answer to your secret code question you knew that she WAS NOT in a drug-induced panic that night???

Now you are saying she was?

Let's not forget that you once stated that you were parked outside the gate playing poker on your phone while waiting for SG but then in the A&E special you stated that you were parked outside JB's house sleeping in your vehicle the entire time?

Where were you really?

Then you state that SG asked you to go to CVS to purchase playing cards & personal lubricant but ever since stating that you seemed to have forgotten to ever mention those details again?

Did you go or not? Did she even ask you to go or not?

In some interviews you state that JB called you on the phone to come back and help him get her out of his house but on A&E you stated that JB came outside to get you out of your trucks.

Which is it?

In some interviews you also state that when you went into the house, SG was in the kitchen panicking. In other interviews you state that she locked herself in his bathroom and in other interviews you state that she was hiding behind his couch on her cell phone with 911 when you entered the house. Now on the A&E special you state that when you entered the house JB had his arms around her like he "was trying to lift her out of his house".

When you did the A&E interview, did you forget that you already told us three other versions of that moment when you entered JB's house?

Sorry MP, but the more LIES you tell, the more we have to start to consider that you know what happened to SG. After all, according to the 911 call she NAMED the person who was trying to kill her and "it's someone she knew". And the 911 call ends with SG getting pulled into an SUV!!!!

When you were driving out of Oak Beach that night, did you pull over to the side of Anchor Way to remove all of SG's belongings from your truck and throw them into the wetlands?

 

[Seaslug44]

read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...ody_hunt_zvludib1aatjwwsnyygiro#ixzz1gav36ghd

how does one receive information on such a mishap, and from whom ?

bingo!

 

[nugzter]

bingo!

Good question. A local? Private Dective? Investigative journalist? Or maybe it was a WSer who noticed something in one of the pics posted here. That would be awesome.

 

[Seaslug44]

One astonishing example he shares with the Press took place just a few months ago, in a parking lot swarming with media crews from across the globe, along Jones Beach.

Agents and officers from the Federal Bureau of Investigation, New York State, Suffolk and Nassau police departments—not to mention dive teams, fire, emergency services and medical examiner’s personnel—scoured the brush and sand dunes for additional human remains, victims of the still-on-the-loose Long Island serial killer.

Mangano and Krumpter showed up too, as did members of Nassau’s K-9 unit—which includes cadaver-sniffing dogs being so crucial in the every-second-counts search for bodies.

Unbeknownst to the hordes of cameras and reporters—who were offered a bus tour to snap photos of Nassau’s officers and dogs in action—yet surely known by county officials posing for pictures in the parking lot, the county didn’t have any cadaver dogs. So they paraded around bomb-sniffing dogs for the photo-op instead.

“When they did the Gilgo Beach search that time and they had the dogs down there, it was all a dog-and-pony show,” says Carver. “They’re having the appearance of dogs looking for bodies, that should be cadaver dogs, and we don’t have any.

“‘They just did that for the media,’” he quotes a member of the specialized unit as telling him.

“At that time, we didn’t have any cadaver dogs, and I believe that’s still the case today, that there’s no cadaver dogs,” he continues.

Ed Mangano’s War With Nassau County Police

So we know there are not any bombs at Tobay & Jones Beaches. But knowing that two sets of remains were found in those areas, I guess we will never know if Nassau County blew the opportunity to uncover more.

This is disgraceful!

 

[Clem Snide]

Excuse me Mister Michael-Keep-Changing-My-Story-Pak, did you or did you not just state on international television on the A&E special that you knew from SG's answer to your secret code question you knew that she WAS NOT in a drug-induced panic that night???

Now you are saying she was?

Let's not forget that you once stated that you were parked outside the gate playing poker on your phone while waiting for SG but then in the A&E special you stated that you were parked outside JB's house sleeping in your vehicle the entire time?

Where were you really?

Then you state that SG asked you to go to CVS to purchase playing cards & personal lubricant but ever since stating that you seemed to have forgotten to ever mention those details again?

Did you go or not? Did she even ask you to go or not?

In some interviews you state that JB called you on the phone to come back and help him get her out of his house but on A&E you stated that JB came outside to get you out of your trucks.

Which is it?

In some interviews you also state that when you went into the house, SG was in the kitchen panicking. In other interviews you state that she locked herself in his bathroom and in other interviews you state that she was hiding behind his couch on her cell phone with 911 when you entered the house. Now on the A&E special you state that when you entered the house JB had his arms around her like he "was trying to lift her out of his house".

When you did the A&E interview, did you forget that you already told us three other versions of that moment when you entered JB's house?

Sorry MP, but the more LIES you tell, the more we have to start to consider that you know what happened to SG. After all, according to the 911 call she NAMED the person who was trying to kill her and "it's someone she knew". And the 911 call ends with SG getting pulled into an SUV!!!!

When you were driving out of Oak Beach that night, did you pull over to the side of Anchor Way to remove all of SG's belongings from your truck and throw them into the wetlands?

Yeah. There were multiple phone calls made to Pak's cell, so he couldn't have been asleep the whole time. I hadn't realized until your post how inconsistent Pak's story is.

Guilty or not, Pak is shady and didn't seem to have a whole lot of sympathy for what happened to Shannan.

 

[Clem Snide]

If her body has fully decomposed ( after a year and a half that is most likely the case) any mammal or bird could just grab on to the jeans and drag them away. They could scatter clothing in all directions and at various distances from the body. I found a link to typical marsh dwelling animals.
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/biomes/marsh/freshwaterprintout.shtml

Does anyone know if this a fresh or salt water marsh? I could look up what type of plant life we are looking at in the pics of the search area.

I was thinking a fox or a raccoon would be a likely culprit. Some accounts say that the jeans were "tattered", which leads me to think that maybe animals did some sort of damage to them.

 

[minazoe]

bomb dogs? for what?

wasting the dogs and the handlers...

I can't say this enough times

I feel like Shannan would rather have spent the night in the pokey than get in that car with Pak....he had been there for hours, he was going to be pissed...

How quickly could he have killed her?...he had twenty minutes...and then the cops were coming...

is he a big guy? did they search his car?

could he have had a gun?

he would have had to come back to Long Island to hide her.

without intimate knowledge of the area, how would he have time to kill her and hide her?

Shannan said "they " were trying to kill her...did MP know JB?

I am so glad that I am not responsible for solving this.

and even if she is completely decomposed, I say those jeans aren't coming off in a swamp, animals or not...her bones would be scattered close by...there would be a thigh, a foot, something...no way.

IMO

 

[minazoe]

also...

not to state the obvious....

but who the hell is giving them a tip about Shannon stuff??????? If she drowned away from any possible human help...then how the he-- does someone know her stuff is there????

I say a whole lot of games are being played.

 

[rosemary]

If her body has fully decomposed ( after a year and a half that is most likely the case) any mammal or bird could just grab on to the jeans and drag them away. They could scatter clothing in all directions and at various distances from the body. I found a link to typical marsh dwelling animals.
http://www.enchantedlearning.com/biomes/marsh/freshwaterprintout.shtml

Does anyone know if this a fresh or salt water marsh? I could look up what type of plant life we are looking at in the pics of the search area.

according to this site, red foxes and feral cats, also tend to hunt in salt water marshes:

Fragmented habitat in the salt marshes facilitates access by predators such as feral cats and red foxes, and puts the birds at greater risk.

http://www.brighthub.com/environment/science-environmental/articles/66241.aspx

Some harvest mice are preyed upon by feral and free-ranging cats and non-native red foxes that roam salt-pond dikes or wander from residential areas now bordering many tidal marshes.

http://fieldguides.eol.org/fieldguide-view.php?guidekey=265&eol_id=328438&sci_flag=0

based on the pics i've seen in this site, i think the type of plant we are looking at is called smooth cordgrass:

One of the predominant features of a Salt-Marsh is the Smooth cordgrass that grows. Smooth cordgrass, like most Salt-Marsh plants, is called a halophyte because it can tolerate salt water, a feat that most plants can not achieve.

The habitat formed by this plant provides vital nursery and feeding grounds for young fish and crabs. It also supplies food and cover to a variety of marsh birds and other animals.

Today we saw a dozen or so Great Blue Heron and sand pipers. In the past we have seen a family of Red Fox. The Salt-Marsh is also home to osprey, bobcat and otter.

http://www.geocachingonline.com/2007/10/24/the-salt-marsh-trail/

 

[nugzter]

according to this site, red foxes and feral cats, also tend to hunt in salt water marshes:

Nice finds......good info. All these animals are large enough to move a pair of jeans in a marsh enviornment. I have been looking reasearch on animals disturbing crime scenes. If or when I find anything I will post it.

 

[nugzter]

Found this here... http://www.crime-scene-investigator.net/searchingandexamining.html

In Rural Settings, many problems will present themselves that are found in urban settings. These are handled in the same manner as an urban investigation. However, there can be significant differences in a rural setting, these could include,

•Accessibility or the lack of it. Are 4 wheel drive vehicles needed? Can it only be reached by boat or helicopter? Do you need to pack all your equipment in with you?


•Length of time a body has been there prior to discovery. This will cause many changes to the scene such as decomposition, animal activity and weather related destruction of the evidence.


•Use care not to disturb the ground that may have footprints or tire marks imbedded in it.


•Employ aerial photography. It will provide information about routes or egress and exit to the area, traffic patterns and location of homes, etc. This is true in both rural and urban settings.

 

[nugzter]

Take a few mins and read this article. Lots of info on animal disturbance at crime scenes.
http://www.enotes.com/animal-evidence-reference/animal-evidence

 

[rosemary]

Not to mention that SG did not go quietly into the night. Her disappearance was different in that she was on the phone to LE, whereas none of the other girls had that opportunity. After the initial attendance by LE on May 1, her case probably got relegated to "just another missing prostitute". The family receiving a phone call from a respected member of the community, basically assuring them that SG was alive, would help allleviate the family's concern so that they too were not as active in their search for their missing loved one. Possibly just another form of power ... let's control how the family views this situation?

the only problem that i have with the theory is that shannan's behavior to me didn't seem all that rational. she ran away from help, from the neighbor who was already calling the cops. she could have hidden inside his house, but she took off running to the marshes for some unknown reason. and if the serial killer was cph, why would he have risked following her to the marsh area when he knew that the police were already on their way. he had a prosthetic leg so that would have been difficult for him to hide her body in the marsh without getting noticed, especially since it was so close to daylight already. imo, that doesn't seem to fit in the pattern of the lisk, who based on the criminal profile, was meticulous in the way he planned his murders and who went to great effort to conceal his identity and his victims identities. for him to dump the body directly behind his house and then call her family to dissuade them from searching for her doesn't make sense to me. why didn't he move her body to ocean parkway with the other victims? after all, he placed two of his latest victims, who went missing months after shannan's disappearance, in ocean parkway. another thing is that melissa's killer directly made sure to inform the victim's family that he killed her, he could have just as easily dissuaded them from searching for her as well but he didn't. in fact, he seemed to enjoy victimizing his victim's family, rather than assuaging them that she was safe and well so they wouldn't search for her. if CPH hadn't called MG from his phone and gave her his details, i bet no one would have even thought to link him to shannan's disappearance. i just can't see the LISK doing such a thing unless he wanted to get caught.

 

[Seaslug44]

Remember folks, Oak Beach is on a barrier island that is over two miles from the main part of Long Island. Even on the main island itself, there are no large cats and a red fox would be considered almost a once-in-a-lifetime encounter.

As a matter of fact, the lack of predators allows this island to be one of the largest gull breeding areas on the entire Atlantic coast. Here is the wildlife report from the Audubon Society;

Captree and Vicinity

As you can see, it's all about the birds. On Fire Island there is a white tail deer population. But on Jones Island, the largest mammal you are going to find are racoons (and they basically live off of the dumpsters, garbage cans and the trillion washed up clams, crabs, mussels and fish along the shorelines). You'll also find rats (of course) as well as common squirrels.

 

[rosemary]

there is also physical evidence that there is animal activity in the marsh where shannan's belongings were found, the remains that the LE thought were human turned out to be animal remains.

 

[rosemary]

Remember folks, Oak Beach is on a barrier island that is over two miles from the main part of Long Island. Even on the main island itself, there are no large cats and a red fox would be considered almost a once-in-a-lifetime encounter.

As a matter of fact, the lack of predators allows this island to be one of the largest gull breeding areas on the entire Atlantic coast. Here is the wildlife report from the Audubon Society;

Captree and Vicinity

As you can see, it's all about the birds. On Fire Island there is a white tail deer population. But on Jones Island, the largest mammal you are going to find are racoons (and they basically live off of the dumpsters, garbage cans and the trillion washed up clams, crabs, mussels and fish along the shorelines). You'll also find rats (of course) as well as common squirrels.

so the people living in Oak beach aren't allowed to keep cats for pets?

 

[Seaslug44]

I forgot to add the most important thing I wanted to say in my last post about the animals;

Just keep this in mind; there were ten other victims found just a few miles away (seven of which were complete, intact bodies) and in not one of those ten instances have we heard of animal disturbances being a factor.

Think about it.

This Asian man was estimated to had been killed and dumped on that island ten to fifteen years ago and his skeleton was still fully clothed despite all of so-called wildlife and over a decade worth of the nastiest Noreaster storms, flooding & beach erosion that Jones Island has ever experienced.

Let's also not forget the Jane Doe and her daughter. Both of their skeletal remains were still wearing their matching jewelry and the baby was still wrapped in a blanket.

How is it that the so-called wildlife can magically target the belongings of SG but completely ignore the clothing, blanket & jewelry of other victims?

Don't buy that story for one moment (because it's nothing more than a made-up story from someone who probably couldn't name more than three different species of wildlife).

What's next?

Are they going to tell us that it was a pack of wild dogs, a pride of alley cats or a school of flesh-eating walking snakehead fish?

 

[rosemary]

btw, raccoons can also live and hunt in salt marshes, so they're another possibility even if we eliminate red foxes from the list of suspected wildlife that are big enough to rip Shannan's jeans:

Raccoons live in several environments, including salt marshes. They can be difficult to observe in this habitat. Like many mammals that live in salt marshes, they are nocturnal. Raccoons wander the salt marshes at night, looking for food and sharing the space with other mammals, birds and invertebrates.

Read more: Do raccoons live in salt marshes? | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/2039435#ixzz1gBkzMGn1

also, feral cats have been reported to be quite common in jones beach island, which are threatening the bird population:

And from Jones Beach to Westhampton Dunes, colonies of hungry felines wander barrier beaches where endangered piping plovers and terns come to nest.

Animal shelters in Nassau and Suffolk counties already overflow with adult cats and kittens; many face euthanasia if no homes are found for them. So cats cluster around Dumpsters and garbage cans and, increasingly, around feeding stations set up by cat lovers. Many of them have lived outside of human contact for so long that they've become feral - and virtually unadoptable.

http://www.rense.com/general70/cats.htm

 

[Seaslug44]

so the people living in Oak beach aren't allowed to keep cats for pets?

Yes they do keep cats for pets but there is such an abundance of marine life in the area to occupy their interests and appetites. Also household pets learn very quickly that they are not welcome visitors in the marsh because it is a nesting area. The herring gulls in particular will defend their turf with a vengeance.