NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #8

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BBM - So perhaps he removed tattoos in Manorville, shoes in Atlantic City, and clothes in Gilgo Beach???

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.longislandpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Taylor_tattoo_enlarged.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.longislandpress.com/2010/07/01/long-islands-unidentified-murder-victims/&usg=__0nKEob41DMZQfGqe6HnC9xUbh0E=&h=300&w=400&sz=19&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=yFs68YGW1jmkBM:&tbnh=125&tbnw=166&ei=un3ITaLMCMHEgQf60dTOBA&prev=/search%3Fq%3Djessica%2Btaylor%2Btattoo%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D709%26tbm%3Disch%26prmd%3Divnso&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=119&page=1&ndsp=31&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0&tx=62&ty=49

If you look at the picture on the above site, Jessica's tattoo wasn't removed, it was sliced and mutilated. That, along with the removal of the head and hands, are very obvious attempts to avoid or delay identification of the victim. That seemed to be the primary concern with at least the two female Manorville victims. What this means in the grand scheme of things, I don't exactly know...
 
one guy...they're freaking out and going off on tangents....one guy IMO...which means zip...:eek:)
 
maybe he changed his MO, but he is obsessively drawn to the same area....

part of his ocd...I think...it's part of his need to have them accessible.
 
What if it is one SK with the help of the one who "assisted" his SK brother and did a minimum amount of time in prison, as an accessory, even though some folks in LE thought he was the main culprit. Research shows that he lived in the middle of LI and may have lived at Long Beach for a time. Maybe the two managed to hook up,
 
(bolded words are my addition) I agree (and thanks for the welcome :tyou:)! This sick person/people need to be locked up ASAP. One of the differences that I've noticed between Manorville and Gilgo Beach is that the bodies in Manorville were dismembered with what seems like special emphasis to remove identifying tattoos (I would have said for souvenir purposes, but there have been body parts with tattoos that have been found). Did any of the women found at Gilgo have tattoos that were removed?

Was Craigslist around in 2003? I think it was, but I'm not completely sure. I know that the report about Jessica said that she was working the streets near Port Authority, which doesn't seem to be the methods used by the Gilgo women. It was the method used for the AC murder victims, though. I wonder if Jessica had perhaps started using Craigslist? I wonder if there were witness reports that saw her get into a car on the last night she was seen?

What makes me sad about Jessica is that we haven't had any mention of her family. The other girls have all had family members speaking out to the media. I really hope that even though they were reportedly estranged, her family would want justice for their daughter


Hi, Marie-Chantel, and welcome! I think that prostitutes, like other independent contractors, are eclectic: They sell where there are buyers. The "Craigslist" tag is a nice umbrella, but some of the victims mentioned here sold their bodies in more than one venue, whether it be streetwalking, working through an escort service, hanging out in bars, or, as you note, at Port Authority.

Your comment about Jessica is poignant. My thoughts always go back to the survivors; their memories must be laced with a thousand regrets.

 
No idea why I originally thought of a "team" for the LI crimes, but now I believe a single, twisted individual with definite LE awareness - which does NOT mean a connection to LE.... a simple fascination with True Crime will suffice. I live my life by an awareness to instinct, and my instinct on this crime is a very twisted, obsessed, AWARE, individual who has manipulated the system for a long time, and who is getting tired of the game, but is in it to win. I believe Shannon Gilbert was the turning point for him, and even though he killed after her - Megan Waterman (one month latter), and Amber Lynn Costello (4 months latter), I believe he has been horrified by his sloppiness, and inability to control himself ever since Shannon.
 
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Ir...d-to-give-sex-workers-immunity-121513079.html

a good number of people seem to feel strongly that the lack of immunity - from prosecution (not from std's !) - for sex workers is one good reason why someone in the trade might not want to help police with their enquiries.

Wow, it seems like no-brainer to allow amnesty for sex-workers. I hope they decide to do that. I think they probably have some information....at least. Even with immunity some probably won't come forward. But it sure would be more likely.
 
Reasons why all sets of remains found on OP are from the same killer:
1. They were all found on the same strip of roadway, Ocean Parkway.
2. The first 4 that were found were prostitutes and so was Jessica Taylor

Is that it?

Reasons why all sets of remains found on OP are from different killers:
1. The first 4, we know, were found wrapped in burlap, others were in plastic bags, a blanket..
2. The first 4 were put there spaced out equidistantly. Others were found further away from those bodies, and further in from the road.
3. There was no mention of dismemberment with the first 4 found, but others were dismembered.
4. The dismemberment of JT, the mutilation of her tattoo, and the scattering of her remains says that her killer did not want her body found or ID’d. The other ID’d women were placed there as if the killer readied them to eventually be found, in a neat little row.

Finding all of these bodies, different sexes, different generations, different areas of the roadway..a lot of differences among the sets.
 
Hi, Reannan, call me a minimalist, but I think that from what we know so far, law enforcement has good reason to believe that these are separate killers. Serial killers like to think of themselves as master plotters, but most of them are prisoners of their own obsessions.

To me, from the evidence of aerial photographs, all three areas seem convenient stretches for concealed corpses. The theory that only one person is killing these people seems very, very unlikely to be true.

I agree that it's unlikely all the work of one person, but I don't base that opinion on geography so much as I base it on what I consider to be some fairly glaring differences between the bodies themselves.

1). In the Manorville cases we see an obvious attempt to conceal the identities of the victims. In the case of Jessica Taylor, we see an attempt to render a tattoo unidentifiable. Pimps often tattoo their names on the girls that work for them. Jessica's tattoo said, "Remy's Angel". Perhaps Remy was Jessica's beloved grandfather, but I somehow doubt that. Anyway, my guess is that the tattoo was obliterated in order to hide any connection to Remy. Of course, that's just a guess, but my point is that, in the case of the Manorville bodies, the killer went to great pains to hide their identities. That tells me he knew the victims and felt he could be connected to them if the bodies were found. In the Oak Beach bodies we see casual, unconcerned dumping. The killer was done with them, no way LE could connect him to these women, loss them out like trash.

2). MB, MBB, MW and ALC were all found nude, were all strangled, were all placed in burlap prior to being dumped. Now, I realize SK's do sometimes change things up, but I don't think this SK does. He does what he does for a reason...it's not happenstance, imo. The burlap is so that the bodies blend into the scenary to passersby who wouldn't be looking for them. But HE can pick them out. I think that is VERY important to our guy. It's his power...his trophy case, imo. He gets off on knowing what others don't know or suspect. I believe they were nude because they were killed while nude, and I believe the were strangled because it's a slow enough death to let him savor his moment of power over them. I absolutely can not see him dismembering a victim. He has no need to. But apart from that, I don't think he has the stomach to dismember. I think once his victims are dead, they serve no purpose to him, so they are tossed out like trash. He would get no rush from dismembering, he wouldn't risk the time and mess, and he wouldn't have wasted that much time on these women once they had expired. JMO

3). I don't see our SK killing a toddler. I think it would have had to have been one hell of a bizarre situation to prompt him to kill a child. There would certainly be no power trip or sexual rush for him in doing that, and the notion that he killed a child simply because one of his victims brought it along on a date is just ludicrious to me. My idea of this SK is that he is nothing if not patient. He would have simply waited for another time to kill his victim, imo. Likewise, I think it unlikely he would kill a man, although, I can see that being possible under certain circumstances...such as he's an "adventure club diner", if you catch my meaning. But I think that too is probably unlikely.

So yes, I can see a whole host of things that make it seem unlikely all these murders are related. But I don't KNOW that they aren't related, so I have to at least consider the possibility that they might be.

MOO, and all that jazz.
 
What if it is one SK with the help of the one who "assisted" his SK brother and did a minimum amount of time in prison, as an accessory, even though some folks in LE thought he was the main culprit. Research shows that he lived in the middle of LI and may have lived at Long Beach for a time. Maybe the two managed to hook up,

I just had a belated MD dinner with my boys and one said to me, you're sure quiet tonight mom. I said, Oh, I'm thinking about the LI SK ~ to which they got a good laugh. :floorlaugh:

But I was, sitting there thinking and wondering if 2 SK's might collaborate in some way - sharing killing grounds, giving each other advice, etc. I decided NO they probably wouldn't. I don't know what the stats say but do know with their ego and psychological makeup, they would each want things done their own way for a specific reason. Now I could be wrong about that.
 
wow...I thought *I* had a busy Monday...but Long Island police really really have their work cut out for them. The likelihood of multiple killers using the area as a dumping ground is mindblowing.

IMO there are definitely different killers though.

I think the person who killed the 4 Craigslist ladies is a "rookie" and is a wuss to boot. I mean the guy couldn't even walk out very far in the bush to make his disposals. I'm still betting that Costello's remains and possibly Waterman's will provide some good forensic evidence. Costello's remains were only there about 3 1/2 mo's and it was colder/winter months which would have preserved the evidence somewhat IMO.

The killer of the other 2 women who were gruesomely dismembered & disposed of parts/pieces in different areas....is probably a much scarier character. That person definitely is what nightmares are made of...IMO.

The saddest little victim IMO is the toddler...
 
I agree that it's unlikely all the work of one person, but I don't base that opinion on geography so much as I base it on what I consider to be some fairly glaring differences between the bodies themselves.

1). In the Manorville cases we see an obvious attempt to conceal the identities of the victims. In the case of Jessica Taylor, we see an attempt to render a tattoo unidentifiable. Pimps often tattoo their names on the girls that work for them. Jessica's tattoo said, "Remy's Angel". Perhaps Remy was Jessica's beloved grandfather, but I somehow doubt that. Anyway, my guess is that the tattoo was obliterated in order to hide any connection to Remy. Of course, that's just a guess, but my point is that, in the case of the Manorville bodies, the killer went to great pains to hide their identities. That tells me he knew the victims and felt he could be connected to them if the bodies were found. In the Oak Beach bodies we see casual, unconcerned dumping. The killer was done with them, no way LE could connect him to these women, loss them out like trash.

2). MB, MBB, MW and ALC were all found nude, were all strangled, were all placed in burlap prior to being dumped. Now, I realize SK's do sometimes change things up, but I don't think this SK does. He does what he does for a reason...it's not happenstance, imo. The burlap is so that the bodies blend into the scenary to passersby who wouldn't be looking for them. But HE can pick them out. I think that is VERY important to our guy. It's his power...his trophy case, imo. He gets off on knowing what others don't know or suspect. I believe they were nude because they were killed while nude, and I believe the were strangled because it's a slow enough death to let him savor his moment of power over them. I absolutely can not see him dismembering a victim. He has no need to. But apart from that, I don't think he has the stomach to dismember. I think once his victims are dead, they serve no purpose to him, so they are tossed out like trash. He would get no rush from dismembering, he wouldn't risk the time and mess, and he wouldn't have wasted that much time on these women once they had expired. JMO

3). I don't see our SK killing a toddler. I think it would have had to have been one hell of a bizarre situation to prompt him to kill a child. There would certainly be no power trip or sexual rush for him in doing that, and the notion that he killed a child simply because one of his victims brought it along on a date is just ludicrious to me. My idea of this SK is that he is nothing if not patient. He would have simply waited for another time to kill his victim, imo. Likewise, I think it unlikely he would kill a man, although, I can see that being possible under certain circumstances...such as he's an "adventure club diner", if you catch my meaning. But I think that too is probably unlikely.

So yes, I can see a whole host of things that make it seem unlikely all these murders are related. But I don't KNOW that they aren't related, so I have to at least consider the possibility that they might be.

MOO, and all that jazz.

Hi, Mountain Kat and Internet Girl 101; thanks for two excellent, methodical posts. We are all looking for common patterns here, but it is so important not to see critical differences too.

It's a terrible thing to contemplate, but it seems reasonable to believe that in such a densely populated metropolitan area, two multiple killers have operated in the past decade or so.
 
Hi crimesnooper,

You could be right. Personally, that's what I would do if I was so scared and didn't trust anyone...hide. But what next?

Some interviews with JB state that she got upset when she asked for money, right? ( (because after all, he just wanted company and he's having a "party?" so, why would she want to get PAID? For "partying" with him.. Please...) I know what that means...I think we all know that she went to "party" and work. So, let's assume she hid - she may or may not have had money on her to get home...so did she run into Mr. Hyde (AKA CPW or PCW)? Go to his house because she knew him? That's a really hard pill to swallow - I just don't see it. However, I wonder how SG's family got CPH's name from a phone call...? Does anybody think her family made up that story AND the name? TIA and MOO

I don't think her family made up the name. I am struck by a post on one of the other web sites that said Mr. Hyde would drive around OB with his red light on his car as part of security.( I don't know how accurate the comment is) I am beginning to think SG met her demise later that morning .If it was daylight she might have been visible and picked up by car..maybe by someone she knew.
I know several posters mentioned that paranoia is usually not part of bi-polar. Actually, it often accompanies the severe end of the cycle. But there was an hysterical quality to SG's behavior, that does not quite fit bi-polar.
In keeping with my random thoughts tonight and my lousy spelling(very tired today) I think Mannorville is connected. Those women were killed before the Gilgo women. I think out SK has grown less frightened of being caught over the years and no longer feels the need to dismember in order to conceal identity. Also could any of the male bodies found have been a pimp or driver? I would be willing to bet other locations will always be mid Island s of the LIE and south shore.
One other random thought... one victim said that the older guy on LI was creepy. Now what would make him creepy????? I can think of one thing.
Please forgive my lack of focus tonight!!
 
Mountainkat --

where was it reported that the 4 Craigslist victims were all nude and all strangled?
 
My hunch is that her body will be found in yet a THIRD dumping ground. Now that we know that the Manorville & Ocean Parkway sites are related we can see that our SK likes to dump remains in areas that fit the following criteria;

  1. Easy access to major highways.
  2. Dark at night with no lamp posts/street lights.
  3. Very little (if any traffic in the early am).
  4. Only a few scattered homes around.
  5. Access to terrain used for both fishing & hunting.
  6. No sidewalks & a wide grassy shoulder to pullover vehicle.
  7. No traffic lights/traffic cameras in area.
  8. Foliage overgrows area by Mid-May & doesn't die off until late November.
  9. PUBLIC LAND/wildlife protected areas on both sides of road.
Based upon this criteria, here are my top picks for our serial killers other/future dump sites on Long Island;

  1. Eastern end of DUNE ROAD inside Shinnecock County Park West.
  2. Rocky Point Yaphank Road, South of 25A, North of Whiskey Road in the State Pine Barrens Preserve.
  3. River Road in Mastic, along South Haven County Park
  4. Wading River Manor Road from the LIE (495) to 25A (Sound Avenue)
  5. Actually, any of the other roads in and around the Robert Cushman County Park & Peconic River County Park.
  6. Pipe Stave Hollow Road and/or Harbor Beach Road in Mt Sinai.
  7. Long Beach Road in Nissequogue (especially the Eastern most portion)
  8. Montauk Highway between Amaganset & Montauk.
  9. Swamp Road in East Hampton, near Northwest Harbor County Park.
  10. Spinny Road where it cuts through Birch Creek Owl Pond County Park.
  11. Toppings Path as well as Hot Water Street in Manorville where they cut through the LI State Pine Barrens Preserve.
  12. Smith Rd/Suffolk Bvd in Shirley along the Wetheim National Wildlife refuge.
  13. Tarkill Trail along Brookhaven State Park.
  14. N. Belle Mead Road where it cuts through the Laurel Ridge Setauket Woods Nature Preserve

15. Mt Misery Rd in Melville.
 
I don't think her family made up the name. I am struck by a post on one of the other web sites that said Mr. Hyde would drive around OB with his red light on his car as part of security.( I don't know how accurate the comment is) I am beginning to think SG met her demise later that morning .If it was daylight she might have been visible and picked up by car..maybe by someone she knew.
I know several posters mentioned that paranoia is usually not part of bi-polar. Actually, it often accompanies the severe end of the cycle. But there was an hysterical quality to SG's behavior, that does not quite fit bi-polar.
In keeping with my random thoughts tonight and my lousy spelling(very tired today) I think Mannorville is connected. Those women were killed before the Gilgo women. I think out SK has grown less frightened of being caught over the years and no longer feels the need to dismember in order to conceal identity. Also could any of the male bodies found have been a pimp or driver? I would be willing to bet other locations will always be mid Island s of the LIE and south shore.
One other random thought... one victim said that the older guy on LI was creepy. Now what would make him creepy????? I can think of one thing.
Please forgive my lack of focus tonight!!

Thanks Crimesnooper, I've read at 5am that morning it was already daylight.

That victim who you mention, is she the one who advertised on CL, Mr Hyde responded to her ad and she said in her comment she didn't contact him back? I have read so many negative comments about this guy from the locals. He must be a visible character for so many either locals or sex trade gals knew of him. It could be he has been using them for a long time.

Also, do you think he wanted to do bizarre things to these girls like restraining them, taping their mouths, etc? That can't be the norm but do know it happens and it would be ultra creepy for sure. The creepiest thing that comes to mind tho is old men in diapers :floorlaugh::floorlaugh:
 
I don't think her family made up the name. I am struck by a post on one of the other web sites that said Mr. Hyde would drive around OB with his red light on his car as part of security.( I don't know how accurate the comment is) I am beginning to think SG met her demise later that morning .If it was daylight she might have been visible and picked up by car..maybe by someone she knew.
I know several posters mentioned that paranoia is usually not part of bi-polar. Actually, it often accompanies the severe end of the cycle. But there was an hysterical quality to SG's behavior, that does not quite fit bi-polar.
In keeping with my random thoughts tonight and my lousy spelling(very tired today) I think Mannorville is connected. Those women were killed before the Gilgo women. I think out SK has grown less frightened of being caught over the years and no longer feels the need to dismember in order to conceal identity. Also could any of the male bodies found have been a pimp or driver? I would be willing to bet other locations will always be mid Island s of the LIE and south shore.
One other random thought... one victim said that the older guy on LI was creepy. Now what would make him creepy????? I can think of one thing.
Please forgive my lack of focus tonight!!

Hi, Crimesnooper. I agree with you. Some people suffering from bipolar disorder do experience paranoia, hallucinations, and delusions during manic phases. Such symptoms can become more manifest while the person is not taking their prescriptions or, conversely, when they are abusing drugs such as cocaine, one of Shannan's problem drugs. One of my brother-in-laws is bipolar and physicians have told my sister that people with his condition seem unusually vulnerable to the effects of medications and other drugs.

On another point, does any poster have a link to where the family identified a Mr. Hyde? I haven't seen it and I would imagine that the media would have seized this nickname and refused to let it go.

Thanks in advance.
 
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