NY-LI-4 bodies on Beach-Possible SK-12/10-All id'd,4 more found 3/11 #4

[scandi]

On Google maps for 47 Larboard Crt, Babylon, NY, is that a white truck in the driveway? I don't know how to bring the image over.

My eyes aren't good enough for that. It looks like a white car back in the carport, then something white and rectangular going crossways in front of the house and then I think a boat on the left of the driveway. What do you see?

You can't c & p from Google Maps but here is the image to zoom in on.

Whoops, It shows the address and we can't do that until he is named a POI or SUSPECT in the MSM or LE.

 

[Redbird]

Thanks. That's it. I can't see well enough either. I have got to go to bed. This case is like a book you can't put down.

 

[MsFacetious]

Not even just the "stuttering" and "inability to spit it out"....

The "smirk" on his face though... is way too much for me.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id=8068801

Hackett: "I can't imagine who would do such a horrible, you know mean thing... it's just it's beyond it's beyond the you know, the level of you know my belief that.. or I can't even imagine it happening."

If this is the way he responds to a reporter's questions, no wonder the police have questioned him multiple times. Just all kinds of hesitation and classic stalling "you knows". Text book nervous/guilt indicators.

When she knocked on doors that night in May 2010...

The woman, I believe was making Shannan wait outside.

The man however said that she "fell into" the house when he opened the door.

He said he would have "detained" her if he had realized how serious the situation was.

He would have kept her inside if she had been willing to stay.

I believe she could have stayed inside the man's house until help arrived... if it was help that had arrived. Could have called someone else to come get her, or even asked him to take her back.

If you are inside a dark house, how is the person trying to kill you going to know that is where you went? Run in, have him turn off all the lights and wait for police... if anyone does happen to knock on the door, he can play stupid...or you can even call someone else to come and get you.

She didn't stay.... which makes me think it was more of an irrational fear... than a real one.

She had to know she was better off hiding in a house not connected to her... than running down a street at night if she was running from a killer....

But if she was out of her mind, just running... then she would just be running... into a car, into water, into the poison ivy, into whatever got in her way.

I believe Shannan SAW or was shown human remains, or she was told they were making a movie and was asked to wear or saw a personal item she knew a "missing" co-worker/friend/acquaintance had worn/owned ? Then put. 2 & 2 together. For all we know the "asain man" was paid to bring her there or keep her there? Is he part of the group? Making S&M movies or worse.

From her temperament on that call, she KNEW they were going to kill her. She wasn't afraid they might.
She managed to get out of the home. Did either of the neighbors ask her to come inside and shut the door or were they going
to have her wait outside while they called LE? Can't say I blame them (neighbors ) IMAGINE HOW PANICKED A WOMAN WOULD BE HAD SHE SEEN A DEAD WOMAN ~ no less maybe someone she had known... & SHE WAS NEXT!
pretty sure I'd drop dead from fear.
MOO

 

[shadowraiths]

he doc is much more clean cut than I pictured him to be. My first response was no way, but then his comments. Yikes. Statement analysis must be going crazy.

Yeah, esp with the "beyond my belief" bit and if they're into the whole Freudian school of thought. Though, I suspect they're paying attention to the whole package... that is, word choice, languaging, speech patterns, inflection, affect, non-verbals, etc.

 

[scandi]

Interesting how they found the bodies in Dec during a snow covered training whatever or a dog had to pee?? ??

If they are innocent and do know something,they would not be talking about anything in the intereveiw that the FBI asked to not to.

The FBI would name JB a suspect and Clear him. Then on to the next. etc. The killer is so smart. No he isnt we already know he isnt, he is calling people
taunting them ,leaving his evidence all in one place.

She might not be but I am not ruling it out yet because the events do not match up to anything rational other then it being planned. If it was a planned murder it went badly and could have been abandon . 2 murders with help from a driver sounds nuts. Randomly landing where she did and being snatched my a SK sounds crazy as well. The most logical thing to think is the witness protection program.

CL woman who work alone put pimps out of work and old one might get upset by being cut from the purse. So maybe it really is a mob type pimp. If that is the case then Shannon really could have had info and JB was not supposed to call that driver. pushing a fast escape. Or maybe she knows something on the DR.

Another great post Soulmagent,

For starters I find it hard to believe it took 45 min for LE to get there.

If LE found and got her and LE realized what a big case this could be, I think they might put her in the program at that time. It could have taken 6 or so months to get the lay of the land scoped out, funds approved for their searches, etc.

Don't you think that finding 10 bodies since then plus linking them to 4 other bodies in AC happened really fast? Here early morning venture startede the ball rolling on this killer IMO.

When they got to searching it was like they found bodies almost every time they looked, right? I think they might have had their ground sensitive radar work done way beforehand and mapped out before they found these last 6 ladies. PLUS they said they thought they would find more bodies and so far they have. And don't you think they zoned in on possible suspects rather quickly once they started finding bodies? I do.

I don't know but it kind of makes sense even tho it is a real stretch. We would have a bit of a happier ending.

 

[scandi]

Thanks. That's it. I can't see well enough either. I have got to go to bed. This case is like a book you can't put down.

LOL Night Redbird, I'm off real quick like too. ;}

 

[evelyn24]

My point is it doesn't necessarily carry much weight. In any case, "cooperative" is not synonymous with "innocent."

I'm not saying he's guilty. I don't know. I'm still open to both possibilities - and the only reason I'm considering him at all is because the circumstances are really, really, REALLY peculiar and coincidental. That's all. So if he isn't connected to her disappearance and/or the bodies, what's the story there? What is the explanation for that situation, other than what I consider to be a real cop-out: she was just paranoid because she was on drugs or something.

Are you open to both possibilities? It certainly doesn't seem so. I have to wonder why you are so insistent upon his innocence that you won't even admit that the situation is weird and does raise red flags. Anything can be rationalized in this world. Aren't you just a little curious about what happened there? Why are you so quick to dismiss the possibility that he might be involved? Quite frankly, I find that rather confusing.

I gotta tell you I still cannot come up with a rational scenario where this guy JB is totally a victim of circumstance or of bad luck or bad timing.
Nah, something is not right with him and his story.
I've been on this board awhile reading a lot of cases and it would be one of the biggest coincidences I've ever heard or read about if JB turns out to be completely unconnected to SG's disappearance, OR SG is not connected to the other victims.

What are the chances she runs out of a house screaming people are going to kill her just around the way bodies of other call girls from Craig's List have been dumped, and then a call to her family the next day, just like with Melissa's sister.

I'm trying to keep an open mind, but it's hard.

 

[scandi]

Not even just the "stuttering" and "inability to spit it out"....

The "smirk" on his face though... is way too much for me.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/video?id=8068801




When she knocked on doors that night in May 2010...

The woman, I believe was making Shannan wait outside.

The man however said that she "fell into" the house when he opened the door.

He said he would have "detained" her if he had realized how serious the situation was.

He would have kept her inside if she had been willing to stay.

I believe she could have stayed inside the man's house until help arrived... if it was help that had arrived. Could have called someone else to come get her, or even asked him to take her back.

If you are inside a dark house, how is the person trying to kill you going to know that is where you went? Run in, have him turn off all the lights and wait for police... if anyone does happen to knock on the door, he can play stupid...or you can even call someone else to come and get you.

She didn't stay.... which makes me think it was more of an irrational fear... than a real one.

She had to know she was better off hiding in a house not connected to her... than running down a street at night if she was running from a killer....

But if she was out of her mind, just running... then she would just be running... into a car, into water, into the poison ivy, into whatever got in her way.

She had been in there for 3 hours. We know there were at least 2 men there. What if they doped her up and when she woke up she saw what you say. Maybe the guys were dressed in some weird sacraficial get up in front of a dead girl or a setting for murder with candles and such.

It would take a while to clear her head, she sat in a chair knowing she had to get out of there and started calling LE. Then as her senses came back she told him she was leaving, they promised she was safe . . .

There are so many possibilities. There is something that scared the bageebus out of her. I don't think we can figure it out cause we just don't have enough info yet.

 

[evelyn24]

There's some similarities between what the dr. did and the person who called the young sister of a victim:

The sk couldn't resist calling the younger sister and probably got the number from the victim's cell phone
The dr. called the family of Shannon, and could have gotten the # from her cell phone

The other victim was a prostitute
Shannon was also

other victims found at the beach
the dr. lives at the same beach area

The sk called the young girl and talked about the victim's "*advertiser censored*" problem
The dr. called the mom about the drug problems

Whoever put the bodies there wouldn't have wanted to be connected to the area
The dr. was leading the family of Shannon away from there

The dr. could have heard all the screaming and commotion that nite and intercepted Shannon while she was outside

I think it's him. The only conclusion I can come to.

Why call and give his real name and location?
I agree the call was from the killer but unless this doctor is very dumb or very arrogant, why would he give out his personal information to a victim's mother? Especially since up to then he's been trying carefully to avoid being detected.

 

[MsFacetious]

The map has been updated to include the two found Monday:

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/bodies-found-at-li-beaches-1.2541830?qr=1

I would like to believe that Shannan is in witness protection too...

However, I also don't want to believe that LE would just leave these bodies out there for another few weeks/months.

I also would like to believe that if they knew these "last 6" bodies were there.... that they would have gone to these last 2 they just found Monday... first. Because they were "in a bag" and "sitting on the surface."

I also, personally think they would have been able to tell the size of the bodies with any type of radar.

I don't know many people who could go.... "Okay guys, here on radar we have ourselves 3 more bodies... oh and a toddler's body. Yeah okay, let's just hang out here for a while and then go 'discover' this one in the middle... then in a week, that one over by the other 4.... then the other one with the toddler."

(I am assuming what we have heard about the toddler being found "with" another body is true. Which would mean that they were the two furthest East found on April 4.)

I don't think they have definitive proof that these are ALL connected. I think they are using the same information we are... and thinking it is likely.

If these Long Island bodies were actually dismembered, I wonder if that will change their opinion about them being connected to the Atlantic City ones? If they will just think he improved his MO, or if they will think it's a different killer?

I have NEVER understood dismembering a body only to leave it all in the same place anyway. There is no practical, logical reason for it.

Another great post Soulmagent,

For starters I find it hard to believe it took 45 min for LE to get there.

If LE found and got her and LE realized what a big case this could be, I think they might put her in the program at that time. It could have taken 6 or so months to get the lay of the land scoped out, funds approved for their searches, etc.

Don't you think that finding 10 bodies since then plus linking them to 4 other bodies in AC happened really fast? Here early morning venture startede the ball rolling on this killer IMO.

When they got to searching it was like they found bodies almost every time they looked, right? I think they might have had their ground sensitive radar work done way beforehand and mapped out before they found these last 6 ladies. PLUS they said they thought they would find more bodies and so far they have. And don't you think they zoned in on possible suspects rather quickly once they started finding bodies? I do.

I don't know but it kind of makes sense even tho it is a real stretch. We would have a bit of a happier ending.

 

[evelyn24]

The map has been updated to include the two found Monday:

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/bodies-found-at-li-beaches-1.2541830?qr=1

I would like to believe that Shannan is in witness protection too...

However, I also don't want to believe that LE would just leave these bodies out there for another few weeks/months.

I also would like to believe that if they knew these "last 6" bodies were there.... that they would have gone to these last 2 they just found Monday... first. Because they were "in a bag" and "sitting on the surface."

I also, personally think they would have been able to tell the size of the bodies with any type of radar.

I don't know many people who could go.... "Okay guys, here on radar we have ourselves 3 more bodies... oh and a toddler's body. Yeah okay, let's just hang out here for a while and then go 'discover' this one in the middle... then in a week, that one over by the other 4.... then the other one with the toddler."

(I am assuming what we have heard about the toddler being found "with" another body is true. Which would mean that they were the two furthest East found on April 4.)

I don't think they have definitive proof that these are ALL connected. I think they are using the same information we are... and thinking it is likely.

If these Long Island bodies were actually dismembered, I wonder if that will change their opinion about them being connected to the Atlantic City ones? If they will just think he improved his MO, or if they will think it's a different killer?

I have NEVER understood dismembering a body only to leave it all in the same place anyway. There is no practical, logical reason for it.

It's very practical...almost scary how practical it is actually.
Most killers who dismember do it for transporting the body. It's easier to go undetected, and also easier to carry a body that's been dismembered and put into a small container or bag etc.


Sorry for the morbid post.
Yikes.

 

[concentric]

I haven't read the last say 2 pages of this thread yet.

Here's what I was thinking a couple of days ago:

Why wouldn't the killer dispose of the remains in water, rather than on land? The water being either a) the ocean or b) lakes or ponds or c) both.

If only on land, then this person thought the remains would show up in the water more easily?

Now yesterday, I read that divers are going into the lakes or ponds, it seems LE thinks that the killer did both--land and water.

Why not the ocean?

Also, I wonder if the killer had a fisherman or maintenance shed or shack where he kept the victims or bodies or both.

Here's yet another thought:

Did this killer obtain SG's mother's number by demanding it from SG while she was still alive? Remember cases where the victim was forced to write a letter to the family saying all was well and not to worry?

 

[concentric]

We now know some of the bodies were dismembered.

Someone skilled at gutting or filleting large fish might be very adept at that. Or someone with "maintenance" tools.

 

[MsFacetious]

One of the skeletons found in a serial killer's Long Island dumping ground is a man, police sources said Tuesday.

The unidentified remains were near those of a woman and a child under age 4.

Also close-by were a skull and some bones wrapped in milky-white plastic, sources said.

They have not been definitively linked to the burlap-wrapped bodies of four craigslist hookers found on the same remote coastal island in December - or bones found this week on the Nassau County side of the beach.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...all_girl_serialmurder_case.html#ixzz1JOZHrwpn

 

[MsFacetious]

The map again, with the 10 victims so far mapped out:

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/bodies-found-at-li-beaches-1.2541830?qr=1

I'm going to guess that March 29th is the man and the 2 together on April 4th are the woman and child. If they really are all "near" each other with the child being found with another body .

 

[concentric]

If there is an actual drifter person, I'm still wondering what his role was.

Did the client(s) let this person get in on the "action," that is, sex and drugs seemingly for free in order to get "the drifter" to do the dirty work?

 

[MsFacetious]

Yes, but once you have gone to all the trouble of dismembering to make transport easier... why not also lessen the odds of being caught? Why put them all in one place?

I guess it just makes no sense to me... you have a chance to put evidence in multiple locations but you package it nicely in a bag for cops? :waitasec:

It's very practical...almost scary how practical it is actually.
Most killers who dismember do it for transporting the body. It's easier to go undetected, and also easier to carry a body that's been dismembered and put into a small container or bag etc.


Sorry for the morbid post.
Yikes.

 

[epiphany]

The skull and torso found on a desolate Nassau County beachfront are too old to be connected to the serial killings of four Craigslist call girls -- and could belong to long-lost victims of notorious Long Island butcher Joel Rifkin, a source said yesterday.

"These are so old that roots were growing around the vertebrae and the skull," the source told The Post.

"These could be one or two of Joel Rifkin's victims who were never found," or the work of another killer, the source said.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/chilling_echo_of_fiend_0VfwVMsDJkpX5rkAwMCoTI

 

[goathairjones]

One of the skeletons found in a serial killer's Long Island dumping ground is a man, police sources said Tuesday.

The unidentified remains were near those of a woman and a child under age 4.

Also close-by were a skull and some bones wrapped in milky-white plastic, sources said.

They have not been definitively linked to the burlap-wrapped bodies of four craigslist hookers found on the same remote coastal island in December - or bones found this week on the Nassau County side of the beach.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_...all_girl_serialmurder_case.html#ixzz1JOZHrwpn

I believe we may have 3-5 different killers of all these bodies found. One Craigslist killer for the 5 female bodies found west of Hemlock Cove. One killer boyfriend/husband who killed the woman and child. Another killer who dropped the body of a man there. And yet another killer who dropped a body west of Tobay in Nassau.

I would be very surprised to see that all of these bodies are connected.

 

[concentric]

I was thinking this killer has a shed or shack where items are kept.

Two cases I thought of right away are: BTK, Dennis Rader's shed and the fisherman shack in Aruba in the Natalee Holloway case.