NY - LISK Bodies found as of December 10, 2011 Thread #13

[Just K]

I am talking about the hard drive being Erased.

The Wayback archives various media formats including video.

Yep, I know...that's why I gave you a link to the MSM that says it was taped over... but backed up on a hard drive.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

hi DWntwn...that is actually a different subject...this is about the news videos and interviews that keep disappearing.

But someone earlier today gave this link re: the security footage...

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/04/...investigation/

Quote:
Although the videotapes are taped over every 24 hours, the videos are also stored on a hard drive.
End Quote

I am talking about the hard drive being Erased. I was also addressing DC but, your input is always appreciated!

The Wayback archives various media formats including video.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

Yep, I know...that's why I gave you a link to the MSM that says it was taped over...

A tape is not the same as a hard drive. They are 2 separate things.

A hard drive does not get "taped" over.

 

[Just K]

I am talking about the hard drive being Erased. I was also addressing DC but, your input is always appreciated!

The Wayback archives various media formats including video.

Gotcha! There is so much minutiae to keep track of. Sometimes i read too fast. I did see JJ on that blog quote GC...re:the "wiped clean" comment...still that isn't MSM. Nighty night, I GTG, now. GC said, in that interview with JJ that LE has the hard drive.

BTW, I know what a hard drive is Just reading too fast and doing other research at the same time. Just offering what i found about the security gate FOOTAGE of any kind.

 

[truthspider]

@SeaSlug
oh
i'm sorry
i thought when you said joe the psychic was 100% accurate
you were right there
and not 100 miles away. seems like you were saying
he nailed.....exactly the place shannan gilbert was found
like you - knew....cuz you were there in person.

This is sick...
Back in August, one of the psychics who walked the OBA community with Mari zoned in directly upon the direction of Shannan's body-

Quote:
“Something happened here,” Joe says. “I’m picking up a whole lot of vibrations right here.” Joe is of partial Native American descent and his manner of speaking, the intonation and cadence, has a certain indigenous quality to it that I enjoy.
I look around at the terrain. It’s near the space in the reeds by the basketball court. There are no houses directly in sight yet...

We continue down Anchor Way to where it intersects with the road named The Bayou. This is supposedly where Shannan’s jacket was found. We look to Joe for what he’s sensing.

He shakes his head. “I felt more back the other way,” he says.
-Written by Jim Jones Here

Sick right?

His perception was 100 percent accurate!

You ddin't need to be psychic. In hindsight, I can't tell you how close I was to literally stumbling across SG's body myself. I don't know if I wish I had or not. I was preparing to investigate the 2 cirlcles I found on G maps. The psychics were probably perceptive and listened to what fluke had been screaming for months. You really didn't need to be sherlock to figure out this case...

 

[Dwntwnslim]

Gotcha! There is so much minutiae to keep track of. Sometimes i read too fast. I did see JJ on that blog quote GC...re:the "wiped clean" comment...still that isn't MSM. Nighty night, I GTG, now. GC said, in that interview with JJ that LE has the hard drive.

BTW, I know what a hard drive is Just reading too fast and doing other research at the same time. Just offering what i found about the security gate FOOTAGE of any kind.

Cool!

 

[truthspider]

Nope, it's gone. Everything I find seems to be a quote of the cbslocal quote. It's just mind-numbing...and people are always trying to suggest that if it is out there on the web, you can never get it back BUT we know that some things do go poof. I guess one needs a lawyer to make that happen. I first noticed it, very obviously, in the Lisa Irwin case. Unless one can get to a cached page before it is updated then original/unedited versions are becoming impossible to track down. I find it interesting that interviews with people like GC, JB, AD and MP are still available. But just try to find any video on the doc & his wife BH and you will find ZILCH!

Even a baby murdering, woman dismembering freak has a right to a trial by an impartial jury of his or her peers under the constitution, afterall we are trying to decide if we should end someone's life in a civil way. Limiting the prejudicial impact of the media will help find unbiased jury candidates.

 

[Redbird]

Every single MSM video interview with him, even the Youtube snippets, have gone poof. Someone saved copies but I tried to find those, too and have had no luck.

Just checked my notes and all I could find was the famous "guilty of being late for dinner" comment by Mrs. H. where they deny knowing Shannan:
Mark 114
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/video/long-island-serial-killer-manhunt-13372385

and found
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2011/04...ch-for-bodies-off-l-i-in-serial-killer-probe/

Report quotes CPH about Shannan walking on the beach.

"Gilbert, a prostitute from Jersey City, was last seen in May by Long Island doctor Peter Hackett, who said he saw Gilbert running at night near Oak Beach, looking both sick and distressed.

“These people need closure and we need to find this girl if she is alive,” he said.

Guess his lawyers have been busy, but since this comment still stands, CBS must be able to back up that he said he saw her on the beach. MOO

 

[truthspider]

When your suspect isn't a joe schmo, LE can't be one either. I bet when they questioned him, regardless of the number of hours the questioning lasted, CPH turned down every offer of coffee or water. He certainly doesn't want to hand LE his DNA. Maybe if he got real thirsty he drank the water then asked for a cigarette and set fire to the paper cup in the trash bin to destroy the DNA he would have left behind...lol

Does the doctor even smoke? If not, what inspired you to write this?

Simply to point out that an ER doctor with LE experience who is under investigation isn't goint to allow for his dna to be collected surreptitiously.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

Simply to point out that an ER doctor with LE experience who is under investigation isn't goint to allow for his dna to be collected surreptitiously.

Understood.

 

[Doop]

so yeah, when is the autopsy report going to come out? it has been over a month since her body was found.

 

[Seaslug44]

One thing I can most definitely take from this situation is how entirely unprofessional most of the reporting has been from MM.
So many w/o the story straight and or contradictions.

I totally agree.

One thing I learned from researching this case is how horrible the journalism has become. You can easily find 150+ news reports written around the globe within a day or two after one original article is written. What I don't understand is that if Newsday, NBC or the Star Ledger publishes an article, what right do the other 150+ news organizations have to write their own article with blocks of text literally copied & pasted from the original article (especially without giving credit to the original journalist or News organization that published the original article)?

What makes matters even worse is when that portion of the original article is retracted and the online version of the article is amended due to a typo or incorrect information. When this has happened, the other 150+ news organizations that copied the text have often failed to amend their articles accordingly. So what we are left with is a bad case of unsubstantiated rumors that are unintentionally circulating around the internet.

 

[snapdragon2]

"I'm a little confused. Are you seriously of the belief that CPH didn't write those letters to 48 Hours admitting that he made two phone calls?"

I have presented my theory as one of among many Possibilities to be considered. I don't perceive my theories to be any more or less valid than any of the other ideas offered here at Websleuths.


“Did CPH deny writing those letters?”

I don't know that he has confirmed or denied writing the letters in media. If you have some documentation that supports any confirmation or denial by the doctor, please post the link(s).


“Obviously, if they received two letters from him, talked about this on the program and still have copies of the letters available for perusal online, and CPH did not come forward and deny that he wrote them, then it is safe to say he wrote them.”

Why should I, or anyone else for that matter, assume that 48 Hours properly vetted the authenticity of the letters. 48 Hours never produced information on either program as to how they authenticated the letters or that they Did authenticate the letters. IMHO, that's sloppy and deceptive journalism.


“To come up with all these other possibilities as to how someone could make those phone calls posing as him might be an interesting exercise but is otherwise stretching plausibility big-time, IMO.”

You are entitled to your opinion. If anything I did show how it Might be possible, IMHO.

My point is that, to my knowledge - and I, like everyone else on here, have been following this case closely - CPH did not deny writing the letters. The blatant absence of any denial whatsoever, IMO, says that he wrote them. I can't imagine that he or anyone in such a situation would ignore such an outright mistruth if he did not in fact write them. To my mind, if he's not disputing them, why would the rest of us?

I do, however understand (I think) the essence of what you are saying. To be suspected and in fact even accused of something one did not do, to be the subject of endless speculation if one was in fact innocent - that would be terrible. We are all innocent until proven guilty, of course. However, unfortunately that's the nature of this sort of forum. For better or for worse, he is a part of this case, and he's going to be analyzed and discussed. I do feel we should be careful not to libel him or anyone else, but otherwise I don't see anything wrong with discussing his involvement. I don't know what happened that night. While I do personally lean towards certain theories, my mind is still open to all possibilities. And one of those is that he might indeed have some more sinister involvement, so I'm still interested in discussing that possibility.

I also see your point about how endless discussion of what happened in Oak Beach could be taking away from more valuable sleuthing about the other victims. But really, that's only if there is in fact no connection. The thing is - nothing has yet been resolved. It just hasn't. The premature pronouncements from Dormer and the subsequent silence do not amount to anything, let's be honest. So until we know something about how Shannan died for sure that would lead us away from Oak Beach in the quest for the serial killer, the most logical place to start is still there, IMO. It's still the best "clue" or break we have been given. I'm new to all this sleuthing, but it does seem to me there's a logical process of elimination to follow in dealing with potential suspects in any case, and until Oak Beach can be eliminated completely as a potential tie to the serial killings, it's not only still completely valid to discuss it, but it's necessary. It might in fact be more of a time waster to move on from it before it's been definitively eliminated - if there's any possibility there could be a connection, to move on prematurely would be sidetracking the investigation.

We may just have to agree to disagree on all this!

 

[Oriah]

Hi ya'll- a member asked me to pop in over here and see if there were any search dog questions that needed answering. Don't want to derail the current train, just wanted to see if there was any clarification needed.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Hi Oriah! SAR/tracking dogs were being discussed back on pgs. 15 & 16. IIRC.

The dog in this case is 'Blue'. He found the GB4 and other bodies on LI. My question is, can Blue find a body if it is partially emmersed in water or if the body was immersed in water periodically. (Shannan was found in wetlands which has standing water at times but not all the time.)

And can you just give us a short rundown of the types of dogs that are used in these cases. For instance, can a cadaver dog also be trained as a tracking dog?

Thanks much and good 'seeing' you!

wm

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Hi ya'll- a member asked me to pop in over here and see if there were any search dog questions that needed answering. Don't want to derail the current train, just wanted to see if there was any clarification needed.

Thanks for helping us out Oriah!

It's a VERY complicated case involving several victims, some of which may or may not be the victims of the same killer, so giving you a complete overview of the case would be alittle like hiking to the top of Everest in 20 minutes. But most of our current cadaver dog questions revolve around the discovery of Shannan Gilbert:

http://www.newsday.com/news/breakin...-oak-beach-may-be-shannan-gilbert-s-1.3370375

I know that other posters have specific questions they want to ask you, but what I would like is a general idea of how cadaver dogs locate bodies submerged in water. According to msm reports, LE had searched this area previously, with dogs, if I'm not mistaken, and found nothing. (My personal feeling is that the body was only recently put there in the water)

Anyway, I'd just like your general thoughts on this. Thanks.

ETA: If it would be easier for you to keep up with questions in a separate thread, let us know and we'll start one for you.

 

[Oriah]

Hi Oriah! SAR/tracking dogs were being discussed back on pgs. 15 & 16. IIRC.

The dog in this case is 'Blue'. He found the GB4 and other bodies on LI. My question is, can Blue find a body if it is partially emmersed in water or if the body was immersed in water periodically. (Shannan was found in wetlands which has standing water at times but not all the time.)

And can you just give us a short rundown of the types of dogs that are used in these cases. For instance, can a cadaver dog also be trained as a tracking dog?

Thanks much and good 'seeing' you!

wm

Hi waltzing!
I'm still reading back to try and get up to speed on these cases, but will try to answer as best I can. From the articles posted, it appears Blue is trained in human remains detection- is that correct? I also saw several references to Blue being 'in training'- as well as being a 'police K9.' So I'm not sure exactly what scent discrimination Blue has been trained in.

So...partial-answers? And warning- graphic.

The first BBM:
A dog trained in human remains detection should alert to remains that have been submerged/ then dry/then re-submerged. Did they locate these remains while submerged? If so, we are likely looking at a cross trained dog- unless remains were decomposed to the point of separating and due to the water levels, some remains remained above water level. If that makes any sense. :waitasec:
Second BBM:
Yes. Many dogs trained in HRD are initially trained in trailing, tracking, and area search. If a handler is utilizing more than one discipline, then that is considered a cross-trained dog. HTH's.

 

[Oriah]

Thanks for helping us out Oriah!

It's a VERY complicated case involving several victims, some of which may or may not be the victims of the same killer, so giving you a complete overview of the case would be alittle like hiking to the top of Everest in 20 minutes. But most of our current cadaver dog questions revolve around the discovery of Shannan Gilbert:

http://www.newsday.com/news/breakin...-oak-beach-may-be-shannan-gilbert-s-1.3370375

I know that other posters have specific questions they want to ask you, but what I would like is a general idea of how cadaver dogs locate bodies submerged in water. According to msm reports, LE had searched this area previously, with dogs, if I'm not mistaken, and found nothing. (My personal feeling is that the body was only recently put there in the water)

Anyway, I'd just like your general thoughts on this. Thanks.

ETA: If it would be easier for you to keep up with questions in a separate thread, let us know and we'll start one for you.

Hi MK!
That's a good question, and one that I suspect is a bit complicated in this case due to the environmental conditions surrounding the location of these particular remains.
Marshy terrain is a bit different than other types of bodies of water, such as ponds, lakes, rivers, swamp, ocean, etc. In fact- they're all different from one another. Is it possible the rise and fall of water levels in this case is due to tidal action? So remains may have been washed up, then washed down, then washed up, then down, etc- to possibly then becoming stuck in grasses or other vegetation after a high tide? Or possibly the water table rises and falls due to the tide, which would have remains initially on 'dry' land, but then with a rise in tide and/or water table, they would float until water levels dropped- placing remains back on dry ground. Not unlike a miniature version of a flood. Hope that makes some kind of sense?

If the area was searched when the water levels were high, they would have been searched by boat, with a water dog- who would have scented to decomp gases rising from underneath the water- unless the remains had come to surface which would indicate some time had passed. Otherwise the remains would likely be underwater. If the area was searched when water was low, on foot (which I understand is the case?) and remains were above the water level- then an HRD dog would not have to be cross-trained as a water dog.

Does that make any sense, or did I just thoroughly confuse?

ETA: does anyone know the gradient of the coastline?

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Oriah, I could be wrong but IIRC, the area where SG was found is wetlands but is cut off from the ebb and flo of the tides. The standing water there would be from rains and there are manmade mosquito ditches/trenches in the area. JMO.

wm

 

[Oriah]

Oriah, I could be wrong but IIRC, the area where SG was found is wetlands but is cut off from the ebb and flo of the tides. The standing water there would be from rains and there are manmade mosquito ditches/trenches in the area. JMO.

wm

Gotcha. Wetlands means the water table is high, though. So rain would saturate. Either way- the remains would be above water level- correct?

Your mention of mosquito ditches has me wondering if perhaps mosquito abatement factors more into scenting on the dogs part than anything else? Chemicals used for that purpose CAN confuse a dogs nose- especially if recently sprayed or the weather is humid.