NY - LISK Bodies found as of December 10, 2011 Thread #13

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I just came across a comment on another forum that has me going in a new direction. The poster pointed out that pigeon food comes in burlap sacks.

The problem is that there are more than one news source that identifies the victims as wrapped in burlap, which doesn't lend itself to interpretation meaning burlap bags, rather it would seem to indicate burlap rolls.

Please notice the comments by Andrew Strickler:

http://m.cbsnews.com/fullstory.rbml?catid=20078763&feed_id=0&videofeed=36&emvcc=-3

http://andrewstrickler.com/uploads/A.Strickler_Gilgo_10_Victims_4.12.11.pdf
 
Seems there are four...yes, FOUR cameras recording at the entrance to Oak Beach.

http://www.news12.com/Login/home_login?articleId=278764&position=1&news_type=news

Another thing re: cameras... when I drove through the OB community over the summer I noticed that in addition to the cameras at the gate, many of the houses have cameras on them. I assume those are privately owned and operated cameras, but couldn't LE have asked for the footage to try and retrace Shannan's steps that night? Anyone know what the legal ramifications of that would be? I mean, I know that it's a moot point now, just wondering.
 
Another thing re: cameras... when I drove through the OB community over the summer I noticed that in addition to the cameras at the gate, many of the houses have cameras on them. I assume those are privately owned and operated cameras, but couldn't LE have asked for the footage to try and retrace Shannan's steps that night? Anyone know what the legal ramifications of that would be? I mean, I know that it's a moot point now, just wondering.

It would seem that nearly all ordinary citizens/residents would step up and volunteer any video recording they had, and allow the SCPD to determine if there is anything of evidentiary value contained within the footage.

IMO, not securing the video recording that first day was the biggest blunder of the entire investigation into the serial killer/SG's case.

What kind of imbecile considers themselves a detective, yet doesn't have the presence of mind to notice the video surveillance cameras, nor thinks far enough ahead to secure the video recording when coming to the scene of a possible murder?

Before anyone makes a comment, when the SCPD rolled to the scene at Oak Beach, they were totally clueless as to what had transpired, and could therefore only take at face value what SG said in her 911 call: "They're trying to kill me."

Unless and until SG was found alive, Shannan's statement is THE ONLY THING the SCPD should have based their choices on. SG's 911 call was the entire premise for being dispatched to Oak Beach in the first place.

If I'm the detective being dispatched to Oak Beach under these circumstances, one of two things is going to happen:
1). SG (or any alleged victim) will be found alive
2). Someone (or many) will be detained for further questioning at HQ.

Based on SG's own words the responding officer had probable cause to suspect foul play, and that is all any officer in the field needs to establish in order to detain persons for questioning.
 
Great post jimmydo,

Of course we expect our LE to act as you have suggested.

I believe there were at least three different calls to the Police/LE/911.
SG's; GC; and an unidentified resident.

So different individuals made emergency phone calls regarding an incident involving a terrified and screaming woman fearing for her life and LE responded and reacted as you described.

Maybe somebody told LE at the time that SG wandered off into the swamp in a drunken and drug induced stupor and drowned, so no further investigation was required. JMO

It is just sad.
 
I know I haven't contributed much to the discussion in a few weeks and I'll I've done since then is basically repeat my self but...

WTF where is any news on her? Have they all forgotten about her? Nothing in the papers not even speculation, nothing from LE, no statements from her family. What the h is going on?
 
If it turns out that he has anything to do with her or any of the victims, that would be a good hunch. I'm sure the ME can somewhat date scars. New scars look very different from ten year old scars.

Or residents (or police) of suffolk county could circulate the email i slapped together and target employees of hospitals in suffolk and nassua county.
 
I believe there were at least three different calls to the Police/LE/911.
SG's; GC; and an unidentified resident.

The 'unidentified resident' is known Windsor.
Her initials are BB.
Like Barbara Eden, the 'I Dream Of Jeannie' girl.
Like the Cleveland Browns wide receiver Brain Brennan.

So, what's the low down on PA? Anything worth looking at in him?

You know:
Like Apostle Paul.
Like the singer Bryan Adams.

You're right Windsor: It IS sad, and tragic as well.
 
The 'unidentified resident' is known Windsor.
Her initials are BB.
Like Barbara Eden, the 'I Dream Of Jeannie' girl.
Like the Cleveland Browns wide receiver Brain Brennan.

So, what's the low down on PA? Anything worth looking at in him?

You know:
Like Apostle Paul.
Like the singer Bryan Adams.

You're right Windsor: It IS sad, and tragic as well.

OK I'm lost.

Who is PA?
 
Will the word “Sockpuppet” be a term we will hear a lot in relation to the Long Island perp?


Sockpuppet (Internet) definition from Wikipedia:

“A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception. The term—a reference to the manipulation of a simple hand puppet made from a sock—originally referred to a false identity assumed by a member of an internet community who spoke to, or about himself while pretending to be another person.[1] The term now includes other uses of misleading online identities, such as those created to praise, defend or support a third party or organization.[2] A significant difference between the use of a pseudonym[3] and the creation of a sockpuppet is that the sockpuppet poses as an independent third-party unaffiliated with the puppeteer.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet)


Sockpuppet definition from pauliewalnuts at Hubpages:

“......may use Sockpuppets to portray an average individual member to give the impression of more support for a peculiar view than actually is. Or to be just an “inside man” or spy for the company site. A group of individuals as separate free-lance Sockpuppets or one person with multiple personalities may sway the public in that community unethically. Double or multiple voting in polls and deceptive writing in community discussions where the alter ego Sockpuppet may also either instigate a situation or agree with the status quo. Arguments or debates, real or staged by multiple different Sockpuppets or a single puppet with multiple personalities arguing between “him selves” (another puppet he also portrays in that site) attracts attention, distraction, creates an illusion and sometime chaos. Or different Sockpuppets working as a team can also accomplish this unethical scam.”

http://pauliewalnuts.hubpages.com/hub/Internet-Sockpuppets--Trolls


Sockpuppet definition from Word Spy:

n. A fake persona used to discuss or comment on oneself or one's work, particularly in an online discussion group or the comments section of a blog. —adj.
—sock puppeteer n.
—sock puppetry n.


http://www.wordspy.com/words/sockpuppet.asp


All the above definitions can be obtained from Google by entering the following into the search bar:

define: sockpuppet+internet


**This post does Not relate to Websleuths**
 
Great post jimmydo,

Of course we expect our LE to act as you have suggested.

I believe there were at least three different calls to the Police/LE/911.
SG's; GC; and an unidentified resident.

So different individuals made emergency phone calls regarding an incident involving a terrified and screaming woman fearing for her life and LE responded and reacted as you described.

Maybe somebody told LE at the time that SG wandered off into the swamp in a drunken and drug induced stupor and drowned, so no further investigation was required. JMO

It is just sad.

The problem is that the police ALSO had the 911 call where she came across as rambling and incoherent. Given that, they would have been looking for just another someone running around town either drunk or high, not for a potential murder victim. When they did not find her the most reasonable explanation for them at the time would have been that she simply moved on. That happens ALL the time for police officers, babysitting drunk/stoned people accounts for a big chunk of their time. They simply dont have time or resources to launch major manhunts every time there is a report of someone acting wierd, if they did that is all they would ever do. It would not have seemed exceptionally unusual to them. There was no reason to think that she was dead somewhere or had been murdered, they did not know that she was missing until much much later.
 
cool thanks, just as a heads up, since the sketch came out and she was added to https://identifyus.org/cases/9098 I have backed off of the fasciotomy assumption because the description of the scars is a little different in this new case file. The term "suture" and "surgical scar" is in there so I don't know of any reason to debate whether or not she had some sort of operation/surgery.


https://identifyus.org/cases/9098

"Right lower leg has a 3-1/2" scar on the lateral mid leg area, a 1" linear scar on the lateral mid to lower leg and a 1/2" scar on the medial ankle. The left leg has a 2" surgical scar with adjacent suture scars on the medial left ankle. "

Does anyone know if there is a weight listed anywhere, for the weight of her legs when recovered? It would seem that if surgical scars and suture scars were evident, and they were recovered with soft tissue- that we could get an estimate of overall size/weight or at the very least circumference- which might help in ID? The ME must have this info? Just a thought.
 
Will the word “Sockpuppet” be a term we will hear a lot in relation to the Long Island perp?


Sockpuppet (Internet) definition from Wikipedia:

“A sockpuppet is an online identity used for purposes of deception. The term—a reference to the manipulation of a simple hand puppet made from a sock—originally referred to a false identity assumed by a member of an internet community who spoke to, or about himself while pretending to be another person.[1] The term now includes other uses of misleading online identities, such as those created to praise, defend or support a third party or organization.[2] A significant difference between the use of a pseudonym[3] and the creation of a sockpuppet is that the sockpuppet poses as an independent third-party unaffiliated with the puppeteer.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet)


Sockpuppet definition from pauliewalnuts at Hubpages:

“......may use Sockpuppets to portray an average individual member to give the impression of more support for a peculiar view than actually is. Or to be just an “inside man” or spy for the company site. A group of individuals as separate free-lance Sockpuppets or one person with multiple personalities may sway the public in that community unethically. Double or multiple voting in polls and deceptive writing in community discussions where the alter ego Sockpuppet may also either instigate a situation or agree with the status quo. Arguments or debates, real or staged by multiple different Sockpuppets or a single puppet with multiple personalities arguing between “him selves” (another puppet he also portrays in that site) attracts attention, distraction, creates an illusion and sometime chaos. Or different Sockpuppets working as a team can also accomplish this unethical scam.”

http://pauliewalnuts.hubpages.com/hub/Internet-Sockpuppets--Trolls


Sockpuppet definition from Word Spy:

n. A fake persona used to discuss or comment on oneself or one's work, particularly in an online discussion group or the comments section of a blog. —adj.
—sock puppeteer n.
—sock puppetry n.


http://www.wordspy.com/words/sockpuppet.asp


All the above definitions can be obtained from Google by entering the following into the search bar:

define: sockpuppet+internet


**This post does Not relate to Websleuths**

Great input Dwntwnslim!!!

You asked:

"Will the word “Sockpuppet” be a term we will hear a lot in relation to the Long Island perp?"


IMHO absolutely Yes!

I belive that the LISK is very active on the internet, and that he do participate on different LISK forums, also as a “Sockpuppet”.

If I was LE I would investigate posters (who post on different LISK forums), whos IP addresses come from public computers, like internet cafees, librarys etc. and/OR a Proxy server*, because almost all people who is very active on thise kinds of forums have their own computer, so if a poster use public computers there is IMHO a good chance that they post from public computers in order to avoid beeing detected. Also proxy Server users, use that in order to avoid beeing detected.
Of course posters who is NOT the LISK might use this services/tactics as well, BUT I belive the LISK is one of them.
Personaly I belive that the LISK post both as himself ("hide in plain sight") using his true IP address, but also as a “Sockpuppet” using either public computers and/or proxy Server.

LISK searche out his victims on the interenet, and he called victims family members, that tells me that he is active on the internet and the phonecalls tell me that he is a risk taker, that he get a thrill out of taking risks, like to be "close to the edge", and "hiding in plain sight" would IMHO fit this psychological makeup of his.


* Proxy Server
http://whatismyipaddress.com/hide-ip
 
Is there a reason why some of us are hanging on every word some stranger on the LISK site types?
 
Great input Dwntwnslim!!!

You asked:

"Will the word “Sockpuppet” be a term we will hear a lot in relation to the Long Island perp?"


IMHO absolutely Yes!

I belive that the LISK is very active on the internet, and that he do participate on different LISK forums, also as a “Sockpuppet”.

If I was LE I would investigate posters (who post on different LISK forums), whos IP addresses come from public computers, like internet cafees, librarys etc. and/OR a Proxy server*, because almost all people who is very active on thise kinds of forums have their own computer, so if a poster use public computers there is IMHO a good chance that they post from public computers in order to avoid beeing detected. Also proxy Server users, use that in order to avoid beeing detected.
Of course posters who is NOT the LISK might use this services/tactics as well, BUT I belive the LISK is one of them.
Personaly I belive that the LISK post both as himself ("hide in plain sight") using his true IP address, but also as a “Sockpuppet” using either public computers and/or proxy Server.

LISK searche out his victims on the interenet, and he called victims family members, that tells me that he is active on the internet and the phonecalls tell me that he is a risk taker, that he get a thrill out of taking risks, like to be "close to the edge", and "hiding in plain sight" would IMHO fit this psychological makeup of his.


* Proxy Server
http://whatismyipaddress.com/hide-ip

I do all of my sleuthing and posting behind multiple encrypted proxies, and I would highly recommend it to anyone that researches the LISK or posts here on this forum. This doesn't mean I should be considered suspect. It means that I'm cautious. I don't want to get sued for libel or slander if I accidentally say something about someone who takes offense. I also have no interest in having a serial killer knock on my door.

I highly doubt that the SK has a great deal of technical sophistication. In 2007, when the SK first struck, Craigslist was like the #1 most popular website on the net. Even if the perp had accessed Craigslist from a home computer and police were able to recover the server logs, just think about the number of IP addresses that would have viewed the advertisement of an individual NY escort. It's probably in the low thousands. Now try and trace down say 1,000-3,000 individual users through warrants with each individual ISP. OK, so let's say you've actually done that (unlikely). Now splash that list against criminal database records to see if you've got anyone with any priors. It's going to be a decent percentage, many with sexual related offenses.

Also note that these days, you can go to a CVS and get an Internet capable throwaway phone and access Craigslist all day long. I looked into this angle recently and found that in 2007, the Tracfone, which is a popular pre-pay phone, didn't really have a great Internet browser and you couldn't really get to non-Tracfone related websites like Craigslist until sometime in late 2008. All you could do really in 2007 was download ringtones and stuff, but that was about it.

I think in 2009 and 2010, when the SK killed at least 3/4 of the GB4, they were probably using a Tracfone or similar type of Internet capable pre-pay phone. If I'm right about this, then it would tell me that the SK is actually at the lower end of the socioeconomic ladder since they aren't overpaying Verizon and paying for a nice iPhone. It would also tell me that they aren't very tech savy, otherwise they'd probably have a decent job and the money to afford a regular phone. Furthermore, it might suggest that they don't even have Internet access and a computer at home.

So all the perp would need is a pre-pay phone. These phones have a huge market share, and they are very popular as an alternative to having some bloated contract with a carrier. From there, you could walk into any hotel or Internet cafe and hop on Craigslist. Jot down the number for an escort and that's all that's required.

The key here is that they are likely using a pre-pay phone, which may inform us about their socioeconomic status, and likely their IT capabilities and educational experience.

However, their general knowledge of police technical surveillance capabilities is pretty decent. He at least knows to call from crowded places. He at least knows to stay on the line for 3 minutes or less. Some have argued that this means that they have law enforcement experience. I've suggested that someone who's been arrested and charged with making anonymous, lewd and threatening phone calls from payphones throughout the city, including Manhattan, would have the necessary experience and knowledge of police tactics to get away with making these calls. We know that Carman Monaco Jr. made such calls. We know that he's got experience with law enforcement, including the electronics squad, having been arrested for stalking News 12 Long Island employees. Here's what they said about Monaco in 2004:

"We are particularly grateful to the Second Squad detectives as well as the electronics squad and the bureau of special operations," said company spokeswoman Deborah Koller-Feeney."

When you're being charged in criminal court, like Carman in 2004 and 2005, as part of the discovery process your lawyer will get access to all of the police records and attempt to build a defense based on errors in process, etc. You would also have an opportunity to depose police, ask questions, etc. Carman would have had direct access to electronics squad documents, communications, even technical manuals and training processes. He would have heard from the horses mouth the timing and process and procedures for tracing phone communications. If we can get the court transcripts and court files, I can prove it to you.

I'll also note that Carman worked as a delivery driver for dollar stores in 2004. During my research into pre-pay phones, I found that dollar stores are a huge distributor for Tracfones and other pre-pay cell phones.
 
inspectrgadget, I buy my prepaid phones and phone cards from dollar stores. The prices are good and I prefer small dollar stores better than WalleyWorld, lolz.

Good research on your part.

wm
 
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