NY - LISK Bodies found as of December 10, 2011 Thread #13

[Mountain_Kat]

To say SG "came across as rambling and incoherent' is pure speculation, based on the stories of the very same persons of interest on the scene. Those stories seem to have taken on a life of their own, and superseded what SG herself told 911. The first responders should have taken any and all such statements with a grain of salt, at least until SG was found. Those statements should have been looked at for what they were: a cover story to explain why SG called 911. Therefore, any statements about SG being 'rambling and incoherent' should be taken VERY skeptically, in light of the victim's own words "They're trying to kill me".

BTW: I DO NOT buy the 'drug induced panic theory'. Most people who are chronic drug/alcohol users can still function quite well under the influence. I guess it doesn't need to be pointed out that SG had the presence of mind to determine she faced a grave threat to her life, and it turns out that she was 100% correct about that threat.

Who said anything about launching a major manhunt?
You are misconstruing what I actually said: unless and until SG was found alive, I would have been more dismissive of the alleged 'rambling and incoherent' condition than I would about SG's own statement of "they're trying to kill me", and if I were the first responding detective/officer I would have detained the key people and intensively questioned them at HQ, recording the entire process. I would have considered what everyone had said, but I certainly would be far more concerned about the possibility of someone being killed as opposed to being intoxicated. Death is PERMANENT, being intoxicated and lost is temporary. Therefore, one carries more weight than the other.

Obviously, the SCPD were both quick and oh so willing to dismiss SG's words in favor of the words of those who were personally involved with the events that fateful night.

I actually DO believe she was in a drug induced panic. The reason I believe that is because according to MP, SG and Brewer took a brief ride in his car, and we know for a fact that someone called CVS from SG's phone that night. So that statement about the car ride from MP rings true to me.

I think someone slipped Shannan something other than what she thought she was getting, and that's why she was out of control and in fear for her life. I think she KNEW they slipped her something, tried to call a pharmacist for help (maybe chickened out, or couldn't reach someone), couldn't express her thoughts coherently to Coletti or 911 because, by then, she was just flat out whacked.

I'm as sure of that as I'm sure I'm sitting here at this computer right now. But, it's still just my opinion. Take it or leave it.

 

[dcgrumpy]

I actually DO believe she was in a drug induced panic. The reason I believe that is because according to MP, SG and Brewer took a brief ride in his car, and we know for a fact that someone called CVS from SG's phone that night. So that statement about the car ride from MP rings true to me.

I think someone slipped Shannan something other than what she thought she was getting, and that's why she was out of control and in fear for her life. I think she KNEW they slipped her something, tried to call a pharmacist for help (maybe chickened out, or couldn't reach someone), couldn't express her thoughts coherently to Coletti or 911 because, by then, she was just flat out whacked.

I'm as sure of that as I'm sure I'm sitting here at this computer right now. But, it's still just my opinion. Take it or leave it.

Didn't Pak say she wanted him to go to CVS to buy a deck of cards and lubricant?

 

[the quiet girl]

I actually DO believe she was in a drug induced panic. The reason I believe that is because according to MP, SG and Brewer took a brief ride in his car, and we know for a fact that someone called CVS from SG's phone that night. So that statement about the car ride from MP rings true to me.

I think someone slipped Shannan something other than what she thought she was getting, and that's why she was out of control and in fear for her life. I think she KNEW they slipped her something, tried to call a pharmacist for help (maybe chickened out, or couldn't reach someone), couldn't express her thoughts coherently to Coletti or 911 because, by then, she was just flat out whacked.

I'm as sure of that as I'm sure I'm sitting here at this computer right now. But, it's still just my opinion. Take it or leave it.

That to me is where it is plausible that CPH comes into play, during the 15 minute ride that is undocumented as to where they went. He is just down the next road.

 

[jimmydo]

The 911 transcripts would clear a lot of this up. The family hasn't heard the call or read, correct?

If memory serves me well, the only information relating to SG's 911 call was a 'briefing' of MG by SCPD. To my knowledge, no one has heard the 911 call/s or read the transcript of the conversations.



This is another of the odd events surrounding this case.
To my knowledge, even MG has not heard the 911 call. The SCPD evidently told MG what they wanted her to know, which lends itself to, as defense attorneys know, 'leading the witness'.

In other words, it's a good way for the SCPD to have MG draw the conclusions they want her to draw. IMO.

 

[inspctrgadget]

And we know she was into ecstasy. The drug has been known to be sold in pill form mixed with ecstasy or amphetamine and sold as ecstasy.

She most definitely could have picked up a bunk pill and had a bad trip.

But Pak apparently told police that she freaked out and left clients' houses like this frequently. So she was apparently quite volatile and unpredictable. I guess I somewhat disagree that it stretches believability. Why she took her pants off? Here's some believable explanations:

1) they were covered in muck/ruined
2) she was tripping on acid
3) she had hypothermia from wandering around for an hour in the wet marsh and began feeling warm, which is common for hypothermia victims.
4) she was struggling in the muck and having a difficult time trying to make forward progress, like the police were. She felt she would have an easier time ditching the pants, purse, phone, etc.
5) she had to take a poop and used the pants as toilet paper
6) she was suffering from a manic cycle as part of her bipolar disorder and stripped naked, which seems not abnormal for people with bpd to do.[/QU

I never heard that Pak said she was frequently like this...where did you hear it.? was it in an interview? just curious.

OK, I just spent 15 minutes trying to find the link. It's getting more difficult now that there are like 10 different threads going on. Let me describe it and someone should remember where to find the source....

It just came out recently (within the last few days). Someone on this board said something like: "At least someone is keeping this case in the MSM". They provided a link to a recent (maybe Monday or Tuesday?) article that cited a letter to the editor of Newsday. It was written by a Suffolk County detective that was defending the Suffolk police and slamming the idea that they're not doing their jobs. This guy stated that he was involved in the early investigation (first 3 months) and had directly interviewed Pak, and that Pak had said that SG left clients' houses like that quite frequently. I'd never hear that before either, but I'm not surprised.

In my opinion, its just more evidence that supports the theory that we're wasting time trying to sort out what happened in Oak Beach. If you don't believe me, do a little test for yourself. Go out in the pitch dark and walk into some dense woods. See how long it takes you to lose your orientation and get hopelessly lost, and panicked. Don't forget to bring your phone/GPS when you get lost within 30 seconds or less so you can find your way out.

Now imagine the woods were mucky up to your hips with close to freezing wet mud.

 

[dcgrumpy]

OK, I just spent 15 minutes trying to find the link. It's getting more difficult now that there are like 10 different threads going on. Let me describe it and someone should remember where to find the source....

It just came out recently (within the last few days). Someone on this board said something like: "At least someone is keeping this case in the MSM". They provided a link to a recent (maybe Monday or Tuesday?) article that cited a letter to the editor of Newsday. It was written by a Suffolk County detective that was defending the Suffolk police and slamming the idea that they're not doing their jobs. This guy stated that he was involved in the early investigation (first 3 months) and had directly interviewed Pak, and that Pak had said that SG left clients' houses like that quite frequently. I'd never hear that before either, but I'm not surprised.

In my opinion, its just more evidence that supports the theory that we're wasting time trying to sort out what happened in Oak Beach. If you don't believe me, do a little test for yourself. Go out in the pitch dark and walk into some dense woods. See how long it takes you to lose your orientation and get hopelessly lost, and panicked. Don't forget to bring your phone/GPS when you get lost within 30 seconds or less so you can find your way out.

Now imagine the woods were mucky up to your hips with close to freezing wet mud.

http://www.newsday.com/opinion/letters/letter-all-out-effort-for-shannan-1.3473520

He said she would leave houses and apartments in the same fashion as she did in Oak Beach. He described her as being a paranoid person and at times acting irrationally.

 

[Just K]

Not to be a stickler, but nothing was "close to freezing" in that brush and bramble filled marsh on May 1, 2010. And, especially since within a half hour, at the most, that Shannan supposedly entered that open field the sun had risen!

Record highs for April 2010 and temps in the 80s for the weekend of May 1st 2010:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...38+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

 

[WINDSOR]

But Pak apparently told police that she freaked out and left clients' houses like this frequently. So she was apparently quite volatile and unpredictable. I guess I somewhat disagree that it stretches believability. Why she took her pants off? Here's some believable explanations:

Why is it when a POI such as MP makes a statement we accept it as the truth?

It seems all the POI (and some posters) are implying or saying:

" It was SG's own fault that she died."
" We (and Nobody) did anything wrong"
" What do you expect when she ran off like that"
" People always are drowning in the wetlands an hour before sunlight in 50 degree weather, happens here all the time in Oak Beach"

As long as we keep repeating the statements and description of MP and other POI as accurate, we will never move forward.

A cop on a TV show stated. 'If the witness describes the 'perp' as a tall, short, fat skinny guy, start investigating the witness.

 

[SmoothOperator]

A lot of the people on the LISK website seem to resemble the first definition, except I don't think they're straw puppets. I actually think they believe the nonsense that they spew.

I think everyone here has, at some point, wondered if the killer posts here or on the LISK site masquerading as someone or something different than what he is. It'll be interesting to find out once they nab this guy.

I agree with all of this.. And honestly sometimes I do really wonder about many of those on the LISK site..
Whereas most times I roll my eyes with disgust at the childish, ridiculousness that is spewed over there.. But there are times that I believe atleast a few of those to be severely mentally/emotionally challenged individuals rather than just ridiculously immature ppl with a whole heckuva alot of time on their hands.. But IMO even those unbalanced folks still appear to be in no way actually involved in this case in the very least.. They wish and dream like hell that they were somehow/somewhere involved and/or privy to some "inside info" into the case..BUT THEY'RE NOT!

Now, here at WS I have a completely different opinion of the possibilities.. Here, I actually do believe there is a very good chance that tho, they may not post here at WS(then again maybe they do).. But IMO without a doubt they at the very least read here at WS.. *chilling* IMO ..

All jmo, tho!

 

[Reannan]

I think the "real" LISK is internet savvy... and probably an internet addict - much like most of us here!!! He found the GB4 victims online, so we know he is "here", i.e. 'on the internet'. Does he read here? Of course. Does he post here? I am not sure - he is bold (the phone calls to family members), but he is also smart enough to have gotten away with his little secret for years. Can he be traced by his actions here, or over at LISK? Not until he is arrested for a traffic stop and they find a pair of severed legs in a black garbage bag in the trunk of his car. Then, they will have access to his computer and find his path on the internet.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

But Pak apparently told police that she freaked out and left clients' houses like this frequently. So she was apparently quite volatile and unpredictable. I guess I somewhat disagree that it stretches believability. Why she took her pants off? Here's some believable explanations:

Why is it when a POI such as MP makes a statement we accept it as the truth?

It seems all the POI (and some posters) are implying or saying:

" It was SG's own fault that she died."
" We (and Nobody) did anything wrong"
" What do you expect when she ran off like that"
" People always are drowning in the wetlands an hour before sunlight in 50 degree weather, happens here all the time in Oak Beach"

As long as we keep repeating the statements and description of MP and other POI as accurate, we will never move forward.

A cop on a TV show stated. 'If the witness describes the 'perp' as a tall, short, fat skinny guy, start investigating the witness.

Ain't THAT the truth!

 

[the quiet girl]

Not to be a stickler, but nothing was "close to freezing" in that brush and bramble filled marsh on May 1, 2010. And, especially since within a half hour, at the most, that Shannan supposedly entered that open field the sun had risen!

Record highs for April 2010 and temps in the 80s for the weekend of May 1st 2010:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...38+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

The recorded high would have been mid day not at the break of dawn. The reason why I say this when we have change of seasons here at the beach (I live in FL) we can have a high of 80 and a low of 30. Any beach person can tell you it can get freezing cold at night and early morning then heat up very fast. So I wonder what the low was for that day?

 

[dcgrumpy]

The recorded high would have been mid day not at the break of dawn. The reason why I say this when we have change of seasons here at the beach (I live in FL) we can have a high of 80 and a low of 30. Any beach person can tell you it can get freezing cold at night and early morning then heat up very fast. So I wonder what the low was for that day?

According to Wunderground the low for Babylon on 4/30 was 48 and 55 on 5/1. But like you said it would be colder and windier near the water.

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

I have no reason to mistrust Mr or Mrs Coletti's version of events.

Here's a screen shot - I've marked Brennan's home in red

Mrs PC
may i ask you if you could post a pic
and mark brewers home....in a color
dr. hackett's home ...... in a diffferent color
gus colettis home.....in yet a different color

and have brennans home in the red.
any chance of marking on the marsh behind there
an X where her clothes were found and a YZ - where her body was found?
that would be a great map.
thank you - i appreciate - it very much.:seeya:

 

[inspctrgadget]

I will take pictures of the roadway at night, and upload them, then everyone on this forum can decide for themselves if they think you are intentionally misleading them by claiming someone with eyeballs could get disoriented and lost in there.

That won't work. Why don't you take a videocamera and walk into the exact area where Shannan was found at 5AM? Then upload the video. That will be much more realistic than you standing under some random streetlight and taking a shot of the bushes with your flash on.

 

[dcgrumpy]

That won't work. Why don't you take a videocamera and walk into the exact area where Shannan was found at 5AM? Then upload the video. That will be much more realistic than you standing under some random streetlight and taking a shot of the bushes with your flash on.

Actually that wouldn't work either since much of the area was cleared during the search.

 

[the quiet girl]

Actually that wouldn't work either since much of the area was cleared during the search.

Would sure be interesting to see, I must admit. However a bit dangerous.

 

[Just K]

Shannan did not freeze to death...She did not peel off her clothes, as she entered the marsh, due to hypothermia...that is utter fabrication. If anything ...at 55*... she was sweating from all that running. This argument is getting old. The sun rose within 30 minutes of her reaching the then dry marsh. Just look at aerials of the area from Spring 2010. It was not a wetland.

 

[inspctrgadget]

Shannan did not freeze to death...She did not peel off her clothes, as she entered the marsh, due to hypothermia...that is utter fabrication. If anything ...at 55*... she was sweating from all that running. This argument is getting old. The sun rose within 30 minutes of her reaching the then dry marsh. Just look at aerials of the area from Spring 2010. It was not a wetland.

OK, first off, 55 degrees was the air temperature. Look at the water temperature that was recorded from local buoys. It's like 45-50 degrees. Then consider that when you're wet, heat escapes far quicker, and hypothermia sets in far quicker.

From Wikipedia:
Heat is lost more quickly in water[18] than on land. Water temperatures that would be quite reasonable as outdoor air temperatures can lead to hypothermia. A water temperature of 10 °C (50 °F) often leads to death in one hour, and water temperatures hovering at freezing can lead to death in as little as 15 minutes.[32] Water at a temperature of 26 °C (79 °F) will, after prolonged exposure, lead to hypothermia.[33]

Now consider that the arial view is useless for determining how "wet" this marsh is. Tidal marshes are impacted by... the tide.

Consider how this marsh would have looked from a cross section on a given day. This may help:

 

[truthspider]

Which is why they needed heavy equipment to search the area. And it took them almost a week to find her remains in the "small reeded area".

come on dc, that was theatrics my friend. they knew she was in there, but hadn't found her, and for some reason wanted to announce to all of the media, that they knew she was in there, and they were going to find, her...starting next week....It's called fishing ... they wanted him to come out and remove the remains so they could catch him on surveillance. I'm certain the area around the remains was bugged, and I bet the cross etc they put their now is bugged as well. They are trying to get documentation of the sk coming back to the site, which happens more than you would think.

look back at LE's posturing and press conference statements around the search in December:

Friday - "We know she is in there and we are going to look and find her...we will start on Monday"

Monday - "She is in here somewhere and we aren't going to stop searching until we find her"

Wednesday- "We are finding posessions, just not remains yet, but we know she's in there"

You get my point.... they were trying to ensnare the suspect... I think they had already bugged the remains months before the December announcement of the new search. They probably knew where the remains were once the fbi reviewed their photos. This is a standard practice in a SK investigation.