NY - LISK Bodies found as of December 10, 2011 Thread #13

[MrsPC]

and again, posting for posterity - the photo of where Gilbert's remains were located with evidence markers....you can see the sloping of the land...and no water in that area.

 

[MrsPC]

I'm not going to say what I believe yet because I don't want them to find a way to explain it all away. But, if it comes out that the wig was found and the location of the recovery is announced, then I will state my theories.

from my view of the NY Post photo of her remains, it doesn't appear that the blonde wig is on her skull...there does appear to be some partial hair but it appears to be reddish brown.

 

[WhiteLilly]

from my view of the NY Post photo of her remains, it doesn't appear that the blonde wig is on her skull...there does appear to be some partial hair but it appears to be reddish brown.

Do you have a link for the photo? I did a quick google search and can't find it. I am curious to see it. Thanks in advance.

 

[Mimimak]

I realize we are dealing with a different climate and different vegetation, but from what other posters have said about the apparent condition of Shannan's remains, I find it hard to believe they were exposed to the elements since May 2010. In the CA case her body was inside a laundry bag inside a trash bag for about 5 months and still the remains were scattered and entwined with vegetation. For those who have been able to view photos of Shannan's remains, does it appear to be an intact skull?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I am a constant lurker on this. I feel funny to put my 2 cents in. I just don't understand how her belongings could be grouped together in one spot. If she was running the belongings wouldn't have been dumped together/pants "lost" off her body...all in one concentrated place!! From what I see...how could she make it as far as her remains were found with bare feet!! I don't see the logic of thinking she went there to that community to do a risky thing...ends up dead...LE and others just want to say...oh...it must be an accidental drowning. I just don't get it. Seems like total disregard for her as a person. This girl had to be murdered by someone...IMO accidental death under the circumstances defies all logic..whether she was murdered by the serial killer or not, I can't believe her death was accidental. JMO.....sorry to interject.

BBM

Never feel funny about jumping in with your thoughts and opinions here, Hayden. For those of us who have been working this case from the begining, a fresh set of eyes can often see things our tired eyes are now longer able to see.

WELCOME ABOARD, HAYDEN AND MIMIMAK !!

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Just a gentle reminder: whenever there is a msm update on the LISK case, please take a moment to post it in the media thread in the stickies. It is much easier to go there for links (since it's not bogged down with discussion), than to try to find links buried in page after page of comments in other threads.

Thanks.

 

[the quiet girl]

I realize we are dealing with a different climate and different vegetation, but from what other posters have said about the apparent condition of Shannan's remains, I find it hard to believe they were exposed to the elements since May 2010. In the CA case her body was inside a laundry bag inside a trash bag for about 5 months and still the remains were scattered and entwined with vegetation. For those who have been able to view photos of Shannan's remains, does it appear to be an intact skull?

hmm
IMO, it is probably so due to the woods poor baby girl Caley was in had more animals? Even so that is a long time for bones to still be intact if this is the case.

 

[inspctrgadget]

your 1st photo linked does not show water where her remains were found...it just shows some very sporadic/patchy areas where there may have been water near where her pants, phone were found.

I respectfully disagree that this is not clearly water. It is concentrated in the canals. Use Bing Maps and pan across the area. Those lines are not pathways. These are canals. You can see more water in the canals behind Circle Drive. I can assure you that the entire general light brown area in which these canals are concentrated is subsumed in at least a foot or two of water.

I've attached an image that might give a better idea of how this area might have looked on May 1st after (1) record rainfall that scientists said had nowhere to go (2) record high water tables (3) high tides for the year in the week preceding (4) a Nor'easter on April 17 bringing wind, rain and high tides. This image is from just north of Oak Beach behind Captree Island.

I also believe that in extremely high tides, saltwater will flow into and flood this area through the eastern side, between the bridge and the houses. There are runoff marks in the sand and a main canal travels all the way east and then makes a sharp turn to the south. I attached an image of where I think these canals are running.

 

[Salem]

Please remember to add your MSM, LE Links and timelines here, so they are all in one place: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6322925#post6322925"]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6322925#post6322925[/ame]


Thanks!

Salem

 

[inspctrgadget]

according to weatherunderground,

there was --

6.25 in rain in Feb 2010
9.41 in rain in March 2010
2.78 in rain April 2010

Gilbert vanished May 1, 2010...one would think that much of the moisture would have receded/evaporated/soaked into the ground.....whatever

The National Weather Service provides the annual national evaporation rate. For this area, we would use 39 inches, but we'll need to downrate the estimate because of the surface area is not 100% exposed due to vegetation. Let's say 50% of the water surface area is exposed.

39 inches divided by 365 days is 0.1068, or a tenth of an inch per day.
Downrate to a fifth of an inch per day given surface area exposure.
Water loss due to evaporation is 1.5 inches per month.

There was plenty of water on the ground. Look again at the area south of Ocean Parkway on March 31, 2010. All those ponds at Jones Beach... They shouldn't be there. Since the area behind Oak Beach is a drainage basin, your water level will be deeper than the rainfall since water pools up until it starts draining. That's why the police needed to pump 2-3 feet of water out.

As far as soaking into the ground...

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/s...o-go-1.1842849

Scientists: Flood water has nowhere to go
"A season of heavy rain has lifted Long Island's water table to new heights, soaking basements and preventing floodwaters from receding as quickly as some might like.

Scientists with the U.S. Geological Survey said Thursday they had seen record-high or near-record-high groundwater levels in many parts of the region - part of an upward trend first noticed in 2005.

 

[To Kill a Mockingbird]

Am posting something I found on the internet while looking for "Sore Thumb"

I hope I have the right to post it - the copyright belongs to those who ...filmed it - but they posted it - so ...I'm guessing it's ok to post it here.

It is footage of some people at Oak Beach filming Hurricane Irene - smashing into some homes at Oak Beach
and by any chance - is this the parking lot that all the vigil's have been at?
they are saying that the parking lot is a lake.

Does anyone know how close - (or far) shannnan's remains are...from the beach?
Hurricane Irene was August 2011.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQLD1EBmY-k&feature=related"]Hurricane Irene at Oak Beach, Long Island, NY - YouTube[/ame]

 

[the quiet girl]

Am posting something I found on the internet while looking for "Sore Thumb"

I hope I have the right to post it - the copyright belongs to those who ...filmed it - but they posted it - so ...I'm guessing it's ok to post it here.

It is footage of some people at Oak Beach filming Hurricane Irene - smashing into some homes at Oak Beach
and by any chance - is this the parking lot that all the vigil's have been at?
they are saying that the parking lot is a lake.

Does anyone know how close - (or far) shannnan's remains are...from the beach?
Hurricane Irene was August 2011.

Hurricane Irene at Oak Beach, Long Island, NY - YouTube

Her remains were closer to the beach then where I am to mine. That said I have had plenty of things uprooted and thrown around even with mild hurricanes and I have been through at least 5. I do not see how the remains would have not been disrupted and not together. That is based off the assumption they are found that way.

 

[truthspider]

Do you think that they are trying to get the public to believe that Shannan floated uphill to her final resting place. If there was all that motion of the pooled water, then wouldn't she have ended washing downhill and wind up in someone's backyard? And, wouldn't the water be the highest in the lowest part of the open space?

I believe somebody is trying to get the public to believe all sorts of unbelievable things about SG, our inside informer is letting us know that the doc has a very strong interest in convincing people she died by accident.

@ MADD is correct… The body was “aged” in another location and place there… Quote from the doc ” thank god they found her, maybe things will go back to normal because people around here were starting to believe I was a suspect.” those are not the words of an honest or innocent man.
Flukeyou on January 30th, 2012 at 6:46 pm

http://longislandserialkiller.com/2012/01/cr-3/

 

[MrsPC]

I respectfully disagree that this is not clearly water. It is concentrated in the canals. Use Bing Maps and pan across the area. Those lines are not pathways. These are canals. You can see more water in the canals behind Circle Drive. I can assure you that the entire general light brown area in which these canals are concentrated is subsumed in at least a foot or two of water.

I've attached an image that might give a better idea of how this area might have looked on May 1st after (1) record rainfall that scientists said had nowhere to go (2) record high water tables (3) high tides for the year in the week preceding (4) a Nor'easter on April 17 bringing wind, rain and high tides. This image is from just north of Oak Beach behind Captree Island.

I also believe that in extremely high tides, saltwater will flow into and flood this area through the eastern side, between the bridge and the houses. There are runoff marks in the sand and a main canal travels all the way east and then makes a sharp turn to the south. I attached an image of where I think these canals are running.

I still do not see water where her body was found. Yes, I understand the water around the drainage ditches, etc and in the areas you've noted....but not where her body was found.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

How do we know that the pictures of the skeletonized remains are in fact Shannan Gilbert's?

I thought I read somewhere (so Don't take this as gospel) that sometimes forensic personnel will use a skeleton from a lab to serve as a substitute for the actual remains, which have been removed, when analyzing a crime scene.

Let me see if I can find anything that talks about this practice.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

"Collection of carrion insects from human skeletal remains. Close examination of the cavities of a skeleton (before it is removed from the crime scene) usually produces numerous insect remains."

http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/0072564938/student_view0/chapter9/chapter_outline.html


It also looks like it's Possible to determine submersion intervals at death scenes based on aquatic insects.

"Use of Aquatic Insects in Determining Submersion Interval

Although potentially valuable, the use of aquatic insects in determining submersion intervals at death scene investigations has not been exploited."

http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/0072564938/student_view0/chapter9/chapter_outline.html

 

[Dwntwnslim]

I think the "real" LISK is internet savvy... and probably an internet addict - much like most of us here!!! He found the GB4 victims online, so we know he is "here", i.e. 'on the internet'. Does he read here? Of course. Does he post here? I am not sure - he is bold (the phone calls to family members), but he is also smart enough to have gotten away with his little secret for years. Can he be traced by his actions here, or over at LISK? Not until he is arrested for a traffic stop and they find a pair of severed legs in a black garbage bag in the trunk of his car. Then, they will have access to his computer and find his path on the internet.

Unfortunately, when LE gets their hands on the perp's computer, they May Not be able to determine what sites the perp has been to and/or what the perp has been doing with his computer(s).

If he has been using proxy servers and the like it could make determining where on the net he's been Almost impossible.

If he has some sort of self destruct counter measure placed on his computer(s), the hard drive(s) could be destroyed entirely. This is why LE uses Faraday equipment. LE would have to really surprise him.

Also, If LE knows who the perp is, it is my opinion that he works in a Faraday cage otherwise they would have caught him doing something already if LE has attempted to remotely surveil the perp's computer activities. This is the type of guy who downloads pirated software, movies, music etc., IMO. They could've nabbed him for that stuff alone and they haven't. The perp probably has firewalls in place to counter any unauthorized comings and goings through his computer If LE knows who the perp's ISP is. Firewalls can be 2 things:

1. Software running on a computer.
2. A dedicated computer on a network that runs firewall software.

There is good free and commercially available firewall software that can be used for both purposes.

If what I have posted is true, it would mean the perp is more than just computer literate.

 

[Dwntwnslim]

This is OT but, does anyone know of an official WS list of what is considered MSM?

 

[Dwntwnslim]

Great input Dwntwnslim!!!

You asked:

"Will the word “Sockpuppet” be a term we will hear a lot in relation to the Long Island perp?"


IMHO absolutely Yes!

I belive that the LISK is very active on the internet, and that he do participate on different LISK forums, also as a “Sockpuppet”.

If I was LE I would investigate posters (who post on different LISK forums), whos IP addresses come from public computers, like internet cafees, librarys etc. and/OR a Proxy server*, because almost all people who is very active on thise kinds of forums have their own computer, so if a poster use public computers there is IMHO a good chance that they post from public computers in order to avoid beeing detected. Also proxy Server users, use that in order to avoid beeing detected.
Of course posters who is NOT the LISK might use this services/tactics as well, BUT I belive the LISK is one of them.
Personaly I belive that the LISK post both as himself ("hide in plain sight") using his true IP address, but also as a “Sockpuppet” using either public computers and/or proxy Server.

LISK searche out his victims on the interenet, and he called victims family members, that tells me that he is active on the internet and the phonecalls tell me that he is a risk taker, that he get a thrill out of taking risks, like to be "close to the edge", and "hiding in plain sight" would IMHO fit this psychological makeup of his.


* Proxy Server
http://whatismyipaddress.com/hide-ip

Yes, the owner of the LISK site is attempting to remain anonymous. He/She/They uses a "domain by proxy".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domains_by_Proxy

*To get to the web page linked above, input the following in the Google search bar. It is the first result on the first page: define: "domains by proxy"


"Please note: the registrant of the domain name is specified
in the "registrant" field. In most cases, GoDaddy.com, LLC
is not the registrant of domain names listed in this database."


"Registrant:
Domains By Proxy, LLC"

"Registered through: Go Daddy
Domain Name: LONGISLANDSERIALKILLER.COM"

"Domain servers in listed order:
NS01.DOMAINCONTROL.COM
NS02.DOMAINCONTROL.COM"


"For complete domain details go to:
http://who.godaddy.com/whoischeck.aspx?Domain=LONGISLANDSERIALKILLER.COM"

"The previous information has been obtained either directly from the registrant or a registrar of the domain name other than Network Solutions. Network Solutions, therefore, does not guarantee its accuracy or completeness."

http://www.networksolutions.com/whois-search/longislandserialkiller.com


*To get to the web site quoted and linked above, enter the following into the address bar of your search engine: networksolutions.com

Then enter the following into the networksolutions.com search bar: longislandserialkiller.com


**@ Mods- If what I have posted here is against the TOS, please delete this post.

 

[KateNY]

I must admit that it is coincidental that Shannan perished near a serial killer's graveyard and that she was telling 911 that "they" were trying to kill her.

RS&BM

Just jumping off this post Inspector..


What would Ockham say...?