NY-Long Island-4 bodies on Beach-Possible Serial Killer-Dec 2010 #2

[gngr~snap]

I have to clear up a few inaccuracies that I think will help get rid of some of the "extra" information everyone has- and may help us narrow down a list of events.

It is very important that we all know and remember that Fire Island is NOT accessible by car. It looks that way on a map, but it is not. Shannan could have been going to FIre Island. BUT
If she was, she'd be leaving Bay Shore or Sayville on a Ferry. She wasn't near the ferry, and none of this makes any sense. Once you arrive on Fire Island, the ONLY ways to get around are on foot or if you RENT a bicycle.

The only access to Fire Island by car is a private access road guarded by parks police. You have to drive over the Captree Island Bridge into the Robert Moses Beaches/Park. Then, you have to drive through parking field 5 toward the lighthouse. There is a one-lane access road by permit only. This area, called Kismet, has a handful of year-rounders who live there, and it is very closely guarded.


The pink arrow on this map is the approximate area in which the bodies were found. The purple arrow shows the area, Kismet and its approximate access point. Notice the secret road isn't even on the map? it's private

This is about 6-8 MILES from Oak Beach, where Shannan allegedly ran around banging on the doors.

We should really discount the Fire Island story. It seems to be a mistake. if not, they have to really get down to brass tacks and interview the people who live there. There aren't many.

I agree the cases are unrelated, UNLESS it is a "park or forest ranger" who would have access to the private roads, and the fact that they drive marked vehicles a woman in trouble or being chased would feel safe running toward the vehicle for help not expecting to become a victim...
I know it's a crazy theory, but being that it's their job to be watchful and protect beach camping areas and the environment in general, they would know the best places to commit such crimes.
MOO

 

[Reannan]

You know, this story is crazy on all sorts of levels, but Shannon's story is just off the charts. She takes an outcall from CL to a home in a gated community, yet runs screaming to a neighbor's home and then into the weeds on the beach - where LE latter starts - and possibly has not stopped - finding dead bodies wrapped in burlap from what appears to be a serial killer. None of these bodies are SG, however. LE immediately clears the John that SG visited that night. The John has moved to another location... (family apparently owns several), and is possibly "back on the radar per Nancy Grace". Good grief!! I don't think you could write this stuff.... but if you did - you would have had SG stumble into the chamber where the other victims were held at the home of the John. That would explain her running hysterically from the home. She allegedly called from the home of the John that hired her (JB), so why have we not heard those 911 calls??? What did she tell LE when she first called?

 

[ThoughtFox]

I thought the Asian man driving around looking for her was the driver who said he did just that. We don't even have the name of the driver, do we?

I think the "party" at the man's house was a party for two people. When it was over he wanted her out of his house but she wouldn't leave.

 

[katydid23]

Its never been said if they knew each other, but that is a good thought.

I feel Shannon while running away went into someones back yard and slipped and fell into the water. Maybe she fell off someones dock? Im hoping anyway better that then being killed by this monster.

I'm wondering how this SK feels if he had nothing to do with Shannon.

Prayers for all these girls tonight. Some at least are coming home to their families. raying:

I don't think they ever found her cell phone, but she was holding it when she an from GC's home.

If she fell off a dock wouldn't she float to the surface at some point?
IU would rather think she drowned peacefully as well, but I think she would have been found already.

Unfortunately, I think she may have been taken away by someone. They have been looking for her and her cell phone for 6 months already. I don't believe she is anywhere around there anymore.

And she might have been a victim of domestic violence or attacked by her pimp for freaking out at the John's house. She might not have anything to do with the bodies she helped to uncover. If so then her life was not in vain and she helped bring about a miracle. Bless Her Soul.

 

[katydid23]

You know, this story is crazy on all sorts of levels, but Shannon's story is just off the charts. She takes an outcall from CL to a home in a gated community, yet runs screaming to a neighbor's home and then into the weeds on the beach - where LE latter starts - and possibly has not stopped - finding dead bodies wrapped in burlap from what appears to be a serial killer. None of these bodies are SG, however. LE immediately clears the John that SG visited that night. The John has moved to another location... (family apparently owns several), and is possibly "back on the radar per Nancy Grace". Good grief!! I don't think you could write this stuff.... but if you did - you would have had SG stumble into the chamber where the other victims were held at the home of the John. That would explain her running hysterically from the home. She allegedly called from the home of the John that hired her (JB), so why have we not heard those 911 calls??? What did she tell LE when she first called?

Good point. Maybe it was those 911 calls that helped clear the john. She apparently did not want to leave that home. So the danger was not there in her opinion. The danger was somewhere outside, like maybe the Suv driver or her pimp or even her boyfriend. Maybe someone had called or texted and told her she ' was dead' and she knew they were serious. Poor thing.

 

[scandi]

Can we learn more about the gated community? Can we research this JT and find out where his mother lives, maybe learn something about the family? If he moved that doesn't mean his family owned the house IMO. It could be he was leasing the home. It would be intertesting to see if his mom lives in the gated community as well. How many families have homes there?

I think a SK who has got away with all these killings all this time could easily fool LE. Especially when we don't think LE started out on a solid foot in the case.

Remembering this as I write:

" . . . "It's unclear if police hunting for a possible serial killer consider the man Gilbert visited a suspect. A resident of the beachfront community described him as an oddball.
"That guy always gave me the creeps," the neighbor said. "One night about two months ago, he parked a U-Haul van on the side of the house. It was the strangest thing," the neighbor added.
"He and another man were packing the truck up in the dark. They moved real fast. It took about fifteen minutes. They didn't turn any lights on except one little light. That was the last time I saw him."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_c...#ixzz1IhilP3J8

 

[Lifted]

I think it was said that the house where the john lived is currently for sale.

I can't remember where I read that, but I think I'm remembering correctly.

 

[Tugela]

At least this article seems to contain some details, like JB's full name and age.

SBM -
"J. A. B., 46, of 8 The Fairway, Oak Island, N.Y. was the last man to see Shannon Gilbert alive on May 1, 2010. He contacted her through Craigslists to attend a party at his home that night.......

She first refused to leave his home and then left the home screaming. She knocked on several neighbor’s door and called police.....

The last time she was seen she was reportedly running into the weeds on the beach."

http://www.examiner.com/city-hall-i...f-long-island-man-serial-murder-investigation

That article makes it sound like she was having a bad trip or something. It could be that her running around where the bodies were was sheer coincidence. The guy looking for her was probably her driver.

In any case I think it is pretty unlikely that the guy she was visiting would be a serial killer killing these women in his own home while their "security" sat in the car outside.

It is more probable that the perp was targeting the girls who were operating without security, probably at the low end of the market where the girls are more willing to go on "car dates" (an extremely risky practice).

 

[Tugela]

I wonder if the party was over at that time?

Was she the last one in the house?

Or were there other people at this "party" that backed up what the john told police?

I haven't seen that talked about, and I think it is a pretty important detail.

Lol..I think the "party" was their little tryst.

 

[internetgirl101]

I apologize in advance for being graphic, or repeating something someone else has already said, but great minds think alike!


Ocean Parkway Bodies:
The idea of the women being skinned, burned or cut up into pieces before being put into the burlap, is a sick thought, but it makes a little bit of sense to me. I say this because of the way LE described the first 4 sets of remains, being "badly decomposed." How badly decomposed could Amber Lynn Costello's body have been, being her body was only there for snowy Sep-Dec? And I didnt see the NG show where they showed the burlap, but would the killer actually be able to easily fold these bodies into the bags? It would be easier to skin, burn or cut up. It sure would be messier, but that wouldnt matter since he obviously has his own private place to do what he does over and over.


Shannan Gilbert
I agree with some of you. I believe Shannan's disappearance is a totally different circumstance. Maybe she ran from the neighbor GC's house because he was calling the cops and she was already passed that step. She was calling and getting no help.
The driver is very shady, not wanting his name mentioned and then telling GC that he shouldnt have called the cops. Ring a Ding DING! Or maybe he was just scared of drug and promoting prostitution charges, but maybe not!
She was making a scene, and being he didn't want his name mentioned, he probably didn't appreciate her acting out. Maybe this was a re-occurring thing with her, being she was bipolar and into drugs and he just got fed up. And her screaming that someone was trying to kill her probably pis*ed him off and thought, if you're acting like that, let's make it the truth. OMGoodness! I feel horrible for even thinking like that.
Obviously, he had a car. He HAD to catch up to her. But I believe, he took a polygraph test, as well. I'm looking for something that states that.
There really is no bright side to look on with this case, but is it possible she OD'd or had a bad batch of something at the "party"? And the term "party" or "party girl," I believe, is a term used by escorts and johns meaning drugs and sex. Here's the link: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_does_you_are_a_party_girl_mean_on_escort_sites

Shannan saying "Jones Beach" on the phone, to me, isn't important. She is from Jersey. Maybe she said Jones Beach because that's the only place she was familiar with in that area. I am not from Long Island, and I have never heard of Gilgo, or Oak Beach, but I've heard of Jones Beach, and I know it's popular. Maybe she's been there and knew it was close by.
Also, if Shannan didn't know where she was, my guess would be that she didn't talk to Brewer to make the appointment, because then she would have atleast known the name of the town. I believe she was working with an escort agency who booked the call and that would describe having a driver, a shady one. She was working for a service the year before she went missing.
Now, we have found Waterman's, Barthelemy's, and Costello's escort advertisements...And I just found a site that says SG used the name "Sabrina," but I have not found an escort post for her at all..So that adds to my theory of her working for a service and not by herself.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704694004576020014107458084.html

Reannan, I also wish they would release the 911 call, atleast ONE of them since she used Brewer's phone and her own..

 

[scandi]

This is just a random thought, but Isn't it interesting that in Dec there were 3 bodies found in one day of the first 4 girls. Now a bit over 3 months later we have had 3 bodies discovered in one day again plus the 4th girl found first, as in December on another day.

Also, I have a friend who has brought up the point how hard it would be to place the bodies 500' {kilometers ?} apart and be so close in measurement. That couldn't be done by tossing a bag of bones as I don't think you'd get that close a measurement that way. IMO

In Dec LE thought the pimp could be a POI per an article I read. Are the pimp and the BF the same person?

ETA: Whoops !! I just read in Internetgirl's link above that the driver and the pimp were the same person. Do you guys think it was the Asian man who was the pimp and driver?

 

[Tugela]

Also, if Shannan didn't know where she was, my guess would be that she didn't talk to Brewer to make the appointment, because then she would have atleast known the name of the town. I believe she was working with an escort agency who booked the call and that would describe having a driver, a shady one. She was working for a service the year before she went missing.
Now, we have found Waterman's, Barthelemy's, and Costello's escort advertisements...And I just found a site that says SG used the name "Sabrina," but I have not found an escort post for her at all..So that adds to my theory of her working for a service and not by herself.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704694004576020014107458084.html

A lot of these girls don't do the arrangements themselves, rather someone else does the booking/advertising for a fee so that the girl doesn't have to do anything other than show up (most of them are not exactly organized individuals and are not capable of doing the managerial aspects of the job). The drivers are typically hired on a piece work basis and are more like independent contractors than employees. It wouldn't surprise me at all if she had little idea where she was or who she was seeing, and the people who were supposed to be providing security/screening mostly didnt give a damn about her, as long as they got their fee.

Of course, when something goes wrong all these people living off the girls backs suddenly vanish and know nothing.

 

[Tugela]

Also, I have a friend who has brought up the point how hard it would be to place the bodies 500' {kilometers ?} apart and be so close in measurement. That couldn't be done by tossing a bag of bones as I don't think you'd get that close a measurement that way. IMO

Not that hard if there are milestone markers. The city would do it for you.

 

[Verity]

For those who wanted to know more about the john, here's a quote, and I'll go back and get the link from earlier, with photo. He lives in Islip and has a daughter. No mention of wife or partner.

I’m waiting for someone to knock on my door and say ‘smile! You’re on Candid Camera. This has been a complete nightmare. I didn’t do this. I have a family. I have a young daughter. I’m not capable of something like this.

Here ya go! Originally posted by kikid:


a couple articles with Brewers pics.

http://animalnewyork.com/2010/12/wes...ging-a-hooker/

http://www.nydailynews.com/topics/Oak+Beach/photos

This sounds like he has a wife, not sure where the mother came from. Maybe wife threw john out after media truck parked outside house in Islip. Boohoo. I'm still waiting to hear him express some sympathy for Shannon and family.

By the way, the address of his house for sale is listed as Oak Beach, not Oak Island. The house has been on the market for sale for about 28 days according to Trulia. http://www.trulia.com/property/1030372619-8-The-Fairway-Oak-Beach-NY-11702 It's not a serious attempt at selling - no interior photos or water views, which must be stunning from there. Compare with the other two neighbors also for sale. There's more info here, http://www.mlsli.com/gmaps/newdisplaymap3.cfm

One thing to add to MrsG's very helpful explanation of Fire island, is that as a general rule, you need to be aware that part of the charm of LI is it's completely incomprehensible street addressing system. Tradesmens' nightmare, they can't find anywhere unless they're a 3rd generation local. It's very common for example for one road to have several different names, sometimes up to three, and equally, it's not unusual for two streets to be named the same in the same town, and across 3 of 4 neighboring towns, there could be 10 streets of that name. You're better navigating by popular landmarks, hence if anyone asked me where the John's house is, I would say "Jones Beach", because it's the closest landmark. I would never say Fire island because I know it's a completely different place only accessible by boat.

There are a lot of Indian names around that are mostly unpronounceable, and different people have their favorite ways of pronouncing, so the word could be spelled one way and pronounced two ways. And as MrsG explained earlier we have Towns and Townships of the same name, but nobody uses the word township, so it's up to you to know what someone means when they say "Babylon town" or "town of Hempstead". I think in 1640 when LI was settled by the Puritans escaping persecution, there must have been some unwritten understanding that because it's actually really easy to navigate and find your way around, they better try and mix things up a bit to make it look really complicated. I am making this last part up because I can't find any other explanation, but as a phenomena, it definitely exists.....


The boundaries are drawn more by water than by land. I've noticed a couple of people here not distinguishing between between Ocean and Bay. Very important to get your bearings with so much water around.

The bodies were all found on the west side of the parkway. That means the bay side. The east side of the parkway, where the 25 recruits were looking Tuesday is on the ocean, the Atlantic ocean, hence the big waves in the dunes. These bodies of water look very, very different. You can't always tell on which side of the road the camera is, but the water is a big clue. This is how someone who wasn't there knows the skull was facing east in that photo.

 

[internetgirl101]

If you are interested in JB, I looked him up when this is all started and this is part of my notes:

Joseph Brewer White Jeep Grand Cherokee
8 The Fairway
Oak Beach, NY 11702
(area code)321-1495

The name also brought up locations in New Hyde Park, Shelter Island Heights, Miller Place, East Meadow, Garden City Park, Oak Beach, West Islip, North Babylon, Ronkonkoma

369 W 2nd St
West Islip, NY 11795-2430
(area code) 321-1495

He is the president of :
Higbie Discount Liquors (631) 422-7523
226 Higbie Ln, Ste B
West Islip, NY
If you google map it, ?ironically? there is a U-Haul Company across the street.

 

[scandi]

If you are interested in JB, I looked him up when this is all started and this is part of my notes:

Joseph Brewer White Jeep Grand Cherokee
8 The Fairway
Oak Beach, NY 11702
(area code)321-1495

The name also brought up locations in New Hyde Park, Shelter Island Heights, Miller Place, East Meadow, Garden City Park, Oak Beach, West Islip, North Babylon, Ronkonkoma

369 W 2nd St
West Islip, NY 11795-2430
(area code) 321-1495

He is the president of :
Higbie Discount Liquors (631) 422-7523
226 Higbie Ln, Ste B
West Islip, NY
If you google map it, ?ironically? there is a U-Haul Company across the street.

Good Job Internetgirl.

I also found a link that says all of the first four girls advertised on Craig's List:

http://www.thejournal.ie/eight-bodies-found-on-new-york-beach-raising-fears-of-a-craiglist-serial-killer-115383-May2011/

Snip

" . . . . No connection has yet been established between the most recent discoveries and the first four, who were all working as prostitutes and had advertised on Craiglist.

 

[internetgirl101]

Yes, I read that the first 4, Brainard-Barnes, Waterman, Costello and Barthelemy posted on craigslist. They posted on a lot of sites:
http://www.myproviderguide.com/escorts/new-york/free-posts/w4m/2546222.html
http://www.escortpost.com/escorts/2...blonde_that_would_love_to_come_over_and_play/

But to me, it seemed like those 4 posted themselves, and answered the calls themselves.

In SG's case, I thought she may not have been independent since I didn't find any of her ads, + she didn't know where she was + she had a "driver" - which let me say, I dont know if the driver and the boyfriend and the pimp are the same person or 2 different people, or 3 people, for that matter. I've read different things which didn't make it clear.

 

[internetgirl101]

This is a quote from the officer that found the first body on Gilgo beach.

"This is a once in a lifetime thing," he said. "Hopefully, I will never have to go through this again."

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704694004576020014107458084.html


Then he found Nicole Tessa's body...it's almost as if he knew he would.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Good morning!

Here is a link to last nights transcript of NG, FWIW. (Lot's of incorrect/misleading information, IMO)

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1104/05/ng.01.html

wm

 

[RIGHTEOUS1]

What is needed is a Fact sheet that is updated if new facts come out. Not a NG rumor mill. That's the only way proper leads can be thought out. If someone wants to bring in a Physic based on the Facts, great more power to ya. It would be nice if we new what was said on the 911 call from Shannon.
I can understand LE wanting to keep all pertinent information to themselves, is this normal when there are no Suspects?
Good morning.