NY-Long Island-4 bodies on Beach-Possible Serial Killer-Dec 2010 #2

[ElizaAvalon]

Browsing through utopiaguide...One person wrote:

"It's funny that you mention about being stopped. Everyone speeds on Ocean pkwy, and many, many people get stopped. I would assume that this "guy" (yes absolutely), is from the area, knows ocean parkway, has been stopped there before, and the cops already have their eye on him."

Locals, do you all believe this as well? The killer had to make plenty of trips there...so, it's possible he may have been stopped before.

No way. Everyone speeds on the highways. 80 is normal and getting a speeding ticket is a rarity.

If the cops have their eye on him I don't think it is because he has been accumulated speeding tickets.

However, I do agree that whoever did this is very familiar with the area that he placed the bodies.

 

[Chanler]

Hi Chandler, Great to see you too. I just think it is the professional way to do business with high end prostitutes/escorts.

Gotta run to get my toes done, see ya tonight xox

Perhaps because I live in the East Village, I associate pimps with streetwalkers. In most cases, these guys (many of whom were also boyfriends or borderline boyfriends) shared the prostitute's money and drug habit, but didn't much else. There was one guy who did write down license plate numbers, which might have given the young woman some theoretical protection. On the dark, I saw several pimps strike their "girl".

I understand that escort services also serve as middle men (or women), providing a sort of legal and protective buffer, but I thought that one of the reasons Craigslist escorts were so endangered was that they were operating without the involvement of others.

 

[James Vic]

Has anyone compiled a list of missing woman in the New York area? Most articles I have read over the last couple of days give me the impression that LE is expecting to find more bodies?

 

[chemcopout]

So none of Shannon's 911 calls have been released?

If not, then how do we know she was flipping out on drugs as has been mentioned by some?

Couldn't she have seen or heard or been told something that absolutely frightened her to death leaving her hysterical and in a panic to get away?

She seemed frantic to me.

Imo, Shannon was terrified so much so she thought she had to keep running trying to save herself.

Shannon knew she was in grave danger and it is obvious to me that whomever she was fearful of caught up with her.

IMO

this is very true, she did try to call 911 a couple times, and for her to literally run for her life, when a neighbor had offered her refuge to call 911 (gc) she ran into the weeds.

at that point she was so scared, it's possible she didn't know who to trust and thought if she kept running she could save herself somehow.

now the only 2 in that area were the driver and brewer that we know of.

i wonder if le has looked at the driver's records to see how many times he's driven girls to that part of long island.

 

[mahmoo]

So not talking about specific individuals here, but in theory:

Shannon is calling for help on her cell phone.

LE sends people out to find her.

The officers answering the call say they can't find her. But what if one of them did find her? And that's the killer? Kills her, disposes of her quickly, and says, "She's not here"?

It's not hard for me to believe 911 was not able to locate her....that area is fairly remotish (<----new word). I don't think LE had a clue where she was calling from until the older man called from his house and it gave the 911 center a better idea where the call was coming from. No doubt....he was able to give them an exact address.

It's being mentioned that she also called from JB's house but I'm not clear "whose" phone she was using. I got the impression she was calling from her cell phone.....not a land line at JB's house. If that's the case.....understandable again that 911 operator was having difficulty determining Shannan's location due to her using a cell phone.

As far as an LE officer (sk) just happening to "intercept" a call girl (victim of choice) in that very small, compact, residential area in kind of the middle-of-nowhere.......the odds have to be astronomical in my opinion. I keep thinking to myself.....HOW MANY call girls are paying visits to clients in that Ocean Parkway area? Surely, it's not that many?

 

[chemcopout]

Shannan G, with drug use and bipolar disorder, would be an interesting challenge for a psychopathic serial killer. He could have stalked her via technology (escort boards, communication w/other Johns, etc), and found it challenging to "get her" even though he had not actually hired her (she refused) as he likely did his prior victims.

as for your other post, le already seized jb's house and cars to search in the past. he's also taken a lie detector test with unconclusive results.
anyone with money can keep le off them with a lawyer as long as le has nothing to hold them on.

as for sg, the only people we heard from that sg was acting delusional and irrational, on drugs is from a 20 year old resident there and his mother and also the driver.

just because she is diagnosed bi-polar doesn't mean she was having a bipolar episode. just because she may have done drugs in the past doesn't mean she was on drugs that night at jb's.

shannon was in fear for her life. it's logical, as in fight or flight response to danger. imminent danger. shannon was so scared, obviously she didn't think she could fight off whoever was after her, and so she ran for her life, literally. the police weren't helping her, they didn't get there in time,from any of her 911 calls. for whatever reasons. now they could have pinged those phones. shannon's life was in danger and she knew it. her actions were that of a person who is very panicked and scared to death, not someone on drugs or having a bipolar episode.

imo, the john has hired these girls and it's resulted in death. what i'm curious as to is who was shannon's pimp and the other girls' pimps if they had them. as we know megan waterman, melissa barthelemy did in the past. well did the pimps deal with the clients, or was it completely up to the girls?

pimps are control freaks. so it's my guess that they may have had a housegirl (fav girl of the pimp) who would act as a secretary in organizing some of the clients and dates. other cases such as waterman and cruz, either or could have arranged it. cruz didn't seem interested in waterman's client or her well being.

if someone was stalking sg through technology fbi would sure know by now.

 

[carbuff]

It's not hard for me to believe 911 was not able to locate her....that area is fairly remotish (<----new word). I don't think LE had a clue where she was calling from until the older man called from his house and it gave the 911 center a better idea where the call was coming from. No doubt....he was able to give them an exact address.

It's being mentioned that she also called from JB's house but I'm not clear "whose" phone she was using. I got the impression she was calling from her cell phone.....not a land line at JB's house. If that's the case.....understandable again that 911 operator was having difficulty determining Shannan's location due to her using a cell phone.

As far as an LE officer (sk) just happening to "intercept" a call girl (victim of choice) in that very small, compact, residential area in kind of the middle-of-nowhere.......the odds have to be astronomical in my opinion. I keep thinking to myself.....HOW MANY call girls are paying visits to clients in that Ocean Parkway area? Surely, it's not that many?

Oh, I think it's very possible they just couldn't find her. I was thinking of the speculation that somebody from LE is involved, and how that person could if they were an accomplice tell the killer about it, or mislead people about what really happened.

 

[mahmoo]

I just don't know if someone with the "pimp mentality" is killing and disposing of these young women in such a methodical way :waitasec:. The disposal pattern is not haphazard. It seems to have been meticulously planned. Whoever is responsible strikes me as being a perfectionist. I'm EXTREMELY curious to learn the locations of 3 of the most recent 4 victims found and if those 3 were found spaced at equal distances. I've got a feeling LE may not release that info.

 

[UdbCrzy2]

Ms. Gilbert had been visiting a seaside home in the Oak Beach area in the early morning hours of May 1. Gus Coletti, 76, was one of the last people to see her alive. He was at home, shaving, shortly before 5 a.m.

&#8220;I hear somebody screaming and bang-bang on the door,&#8221; he said. &#8220;I opened the door, and she stood right there. I said, &#8216;What&#8217;s the matter?&#8217; And she kept saying &#8216;Help me.&#8217; &#8221;

When he dialed 911, she ran. &#8220;She took off, and that was the last I saw her,&#8221; he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/06/nyregion/06bodies.html?_r=2&scp=1&sq=shannan gilbert&st=cse

 

[chemcopout]

Hi, I just wanted to clarify that the pimp/driver {same man} was also her BF. I read that in the December articles.

in megan waterman's case that was true, yet shannons i read that her boyfriend and also the driver went back to look for shannon. implying that the bf and driver are 2 different people.

"The man who drove the missing 24-year-old Jersey City prostitute to her client in Oak Beach, Long Island on May 1 -- the day she went missing -- said today she was "delirious" and "irrational" when she made a 23-minute 911 call from the john's house.

Another man, the boyfriend of Shannon Maria Gilbert, told The Jersey Journal today that he initially thought Gilbert, of Christopher Columbus Drive in Jersey City, had left him when she didn't return home."

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2010/12/boyfriend_and_the_driver_of_sh.html

shannon's bf is actually named, his name is stated as alex diaz. the driver asked not to be named, these are 2 different people.

 

[Sistah Sleuth]

I think the sk has an obsessive compulsive disorder who lives in the area and is responsible for the bodies found in AC. He is a fisherman or possibly a truck driver who does things in fours. He probably scratches his butt 4 times, brushes his teeth 4 times, washes his hands 4 times and probably has his clothes hung in his closet in groups of...you guessed it! FOUR! He probably wrapped the bodies in burlap 4 times (wrapping and unwrapping) before discarding them. He is very meticulous in everything that he does. This monster should stand out if he is somebody's co-worker who has been tolerating his idiosyncracies. Perhaps he is or has been a patient of a therapist and/or a psychiatrist. Once he is apprehended, there will be many who will say, "I should have known!"

 

[mahmoo]

Sistah....I'm on board with your way of thinking. To me.....this person is what is commonly referred to as "anal" now days. The epitome of "anal" to me. I think the burlap is "key" in the investigation and, the "perfect spacing". The victim profiles are major important as well. My fingers are crossed that DNA can be obtained from the burlap.

I'm kind of honed in on JB's business (the liquor store) being right across the street from a U-Haul place.....that's sticking out like a sore thumb to me.

 

[evelyn24]

The number four is a number of separation, and represents dispersal in all four directions. We see scripture describing division and separation as:



Zechariah 2:10 ...for I have scattered you like the four directions of the heavens.


It's probably nothing but interesting.

 

[mahmoo]

The number four is a number of separation, and represents dispersal in all four directions. We see scripture describing division and separation as:



Zechariah 2:10 ...for I have scattered you like the four directions of the heavens.


It's probably nothing but interesting.

To me....with crime.....NOTHING can be ruled out anymore. I could write a dissertation on that. I have no doubt at this point.....the murders and body disposal sites hold some important significance to whoever is responsible. It "seems" like there is some "strong tie" to that particular area even at the detriment of being caught.

 

[Soulmagent]

Ok I tried signing up for the LI site. I got my password and name and it wont let me sign in. My cookies are enabled and my IP address is not hidden. Nothing. I feel rejected.

BTW my husband thinks I am completely crazy and he wont help me see why I cant log on. Any body have any solutions?

 

[MrsG728]

No way. Everyone speeds on the highways. 80 is normal and getting a speeding ticket is a rarity.

If the cops have their eye on him I don't think it is because he has been accumulated speeding tickets.

However, I do agree that whoever did this is very familiar with the area that he placed the bodies.

Seriously- we ride our motorcycle down there every blessed day in the summer, have picnics, go to cedar beach, even at night onto Robert Moses to see the deer.... I have never ever ever seen a cop pull anyone over down there. Everyone knows, that's a cruising spot when all other roads are congested and frankly, unsafe for motorcycles. In fact, by car, it's a beautiful scenic drive, straight as an arrow and fast as all get-out!

As a matter-of-fact, I had to ask "who patrols that area? troopers or local precinct 1?" because I never see cops down there.

 

[mahmoo]

Sorry for hogging the thread lol. Right now.....I THINK these murders could possibly be related to the Atlantic City murders. What's making me think that is the "precision" in disposing of the victims. To me.....it seems to be a key trait this killer has. I again.....go back to odds. What are the "odds" there are two separate serial killers at work here that are so "conscious" about the SPACING of their victims?

 

[chemcopout]

does anyone know when jb's marriage went bad? was he having stress the past few years?

for some reason i think it would be really weird for shannon to be let off at the supposed gate where jb lives and her to walk up to his house.
a lot of gated communities may have a little booth and gate, yet no one mans the booth, you can drive your car through the gate. even though they have a gate and booth, doesn't mean anyone is manning that gate.

there's a very rich area around here where i had a friend at and that booth was never manned. we're talking townhomes that cost in the millions.

imo, the driver of shannon would likely drive a lincoln or other type chauffered car and would drive her to jb's door. she wouldn't be walking. if jb's marriage is on the rocks then it wouldn't be as if he had to hide sg from his wife.

i would think the job of the driver would be to make sure shannon gets to her client, finishes her job and gets back to her house. if the pimp isn't present then he may rely on the driver to make sure the girls follow through with the deals.
whether or not the driver is contracted out by other pimps to drive their girls i don't know, however it may be likely.

for some reason we have shannon scared to death. she knows someone is after her, since the driver drove her there and she didn't try to dive out of the moving car or while it was stopped (we know she made it to jb's). she thinks they are going to kill her and is panic.

what i find odd is that she calls 911 from brewer's house. well did she use jb's phone or her cell phone?

also the mention that "they are". shannon is often qouted as having say "they are trying to kill me" "they are after me". who are they? they usually refers to more than one person. however if shannon wasn't sure who that person was exactly it might be why she stated it as such.

we haven't heard how shannon was acting in the car on the ride to long island.

"The driver said he drove back to the client's house and found Gilbert, who was clothed, in the living room on the phone with a 911 operator, saying that a man was after her.

"I said 'Shannon, Get a grip. Let's go,' and she said, 'You guys are trying to kill me.' So I said, 'OK, I am leaving.' But then she said, 'Don't go.'"

Gilbert eventually ran from the house, the driver said. The driver said he ran after Gilbert, who is bipolar and has a history of cocaine abuse, but then lost track."

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2010/12/boyfriend_and_the_driver_of_sh.html

we hear "you guys" as in shannon is accusing both jb and the driver, as if she doesn't know who to trust.

then when the driver states he's leaving, shannon dodges the door and darts outside and runs. as far as we know, she could have just left with her driver, yet she didn't do so.

the driver claims to have ran after her, however he obviously stuck around for a minute talking to jb.

the next time we have the asian driver sighted, it's by gc, the neighbor who said that the driver claimed shannon left upset from a party.
instead shannon runs to the neighbor's house. this is logical behavior if you aren't feeling you are at a safe place, you are going to run to the nearest place that you would percieve safe. in shannon's case, she did what was normal, she ran to the neighbors house.

here is the video from newsday with gc about that night:

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if anyone can find this video, please link, as i can't find it and it's possible it's been removed.

<br>

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during this video gc mentions shannon screaming "they're after me". when the newsday reporter asks him if he said this, he denies saying that shannon said "they're after me".
and that shannon just said "help me".
shannon ran off into the weeds
he mentions the suburban coming down the road, stopping, a cardoor opening, looking around, and gc comes down the steps and stops him. GC is the one who actually stopped the asian suv driver.
and gc asks the driver what is he doing, that is when the driver says that there was a party and a girl got upset and took off.

then gc mentions a half hour later the police show up.

i'm believing gc the neighbor. with his count, it may have took le over an hour to get there.
also what is important is we have the driver claiming to have "ran after" shannon, then we hear from gc who actually stopped the driver (driver who was obviously looking for shannon) and gc asks can he help him. that's when the driver mentions shannon having ran from a party upset.

i apologize for the rant here, however imo, it seems the driver is doing a lot to make shannon look like she was completely irrational and drugged out. now we have no evidence of this. from what i've researched i really believe that shannon was in fear for her life. this is clear by her actions. she is pannicking, she doesn't know who to trust, she's likely also not sure if she were to have entered gc's house, would her attacker follow her in there? for whatever reason she kept running. if someone is chasing you, it may appear to one that going inside someone's house (gc in this case) would have still been threatening to shannon and likely gc as well.
so she chose to run, rather than be closed in. maybe she thought she could run and hide in the brush.

i honestly do not believe she stumbled upon the killer dumping a body, as any of those bodies at that time would have been bones. at night it would have been hard to see.
it's not like she would have stumbed upon a fresh corpse (i don't like to be graphic, yet i want to stress it). the last girl to have went missing at that point was megan waterman and she went missing after the incident with sg. waterman went missing june 6, 2010. shannon has been missing since june 1, 2010.

now if the killer were to have gotten shannon, maybe the circus of that night had angered him and he killed again on the 6th of june (which would be waterman).
maybe the night of shannon had stressed him out. waterman doesn't quite fit his profile exactly; she is the only one who is 150lbs and 5'5. now if we were to profile the sk in the case he did get shannon, and the ado of the evening caused by shannon stressed him out, he felt he had to kill again in a short period of time. (about a month later). this would be waterman, who was next in line, being june 6th 2010. now she doesn't fit the exact profile, yet being a stressed out serial killer he could have went with what was more opportunistic at the time.

 

[svpernin]

Ok I tried signing up for the LI site. I got my password and name and it wont let me sign in. My cookies are enabled and my IP address is not hidden. Nothing. I feel rejected.

BTW my husband thinks I am completely crazy and he wont help me see why I cant log on. Any body have any solutions?

That happened to me the other day when I tried to log onto that site from my laptop. If your husband knows anything about computers, just beg him to help you with it, the stuff in there is really worth seeing. Or if you have another computer at your house, try logging in from that one. I'll try mine again tonight and let you know if I figure anything out.

ETA: I just tried to login and it actually worked for me tonight. I haven't changed any setting on my laptop since the last time I tried to login so who knows what's going on. I hope you can get on!!

 

[scandi]

I just don't know if someone with the "pimp mentality" is killing and disposing of these young women in such a methodical way :waitasec:. The disposal pattern is not haphazard. It seems to have been meticulously planned. Whoever is responsible strikes me as being a perfectionist. I'm EXTREMELY curious to learn the locations of 3 of the most recent 4 victims found and if those 3 were found spaced at equal distances. I've got a feeling LE may not release that info.

Hi Mahmoo, I'm sure I read that LE believes all 8 set of remains are the work of a SK. That would tell us there must be enough reasons for LE to think that way, and the 500' {kilometers ?} would be a main one IMO. It must fit with everything that points to a very organized killer, right?