NY-Long Island-Four bodies found on Beach-Possible Serial Killer-Dec 2010 #1

[minazoe]

What type of ideology does this seem to convey? There has got to be something.

Found this while exploring.

http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/sjf/sjf06.htm

ok, are you linking these bodies with religious ideology? was this text attributed to a suspect or the crime scene? are you referring to the bodies in PA where the feet of the victims face eastward?

It's very interesting, could you maybe clarify a little bit?

 

[chemcopout]

Do the pre paid cell phone have interenet ? He could be making new accounts each time using a throw away phone? If they dont have the phone can they attach a listing or ad responce to a serial number from a prepaid phone?

it's likely he was using a burner, it's possible to get internet access from a burner (prepaid throwaway phone) however it's very expensive

 

[chemcopout]

From the link below (SBM):
"It appears the seaside sicko may be hunting a certain type of prostitute - all three were tiny women under 5 feet and about 100 pounds.".... "Similarities in how the women were killed and dumped, their body types and ages, and use of craigslist to advertise has fueled the theory that a lone maniac is the culprit." ...... "Authorities have not said how the women were killed, but a source said, "There are substantial similarities in terms of the causes of death."

"Megan Waterman, 22, a Maine sex worker missing since the summer. She was 5-feet-5 and 150 pounds."

"Arrest records in Florida said Amber Lynn Costello stood just 4-feet-10 and weighed 100 pounds."

"Lynn Barthelemy, was just 4-feet-11 and weighed 95 pounds."

"Maureen Brainard-Barnes, missing since July 2007; A missing persons bulletin at the time of her disappearance listed her as 4-feet-11 and 105 pounds."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local...utes_found_dumped_along_lo.html#ixzz1CL8zz7x4
​

reannan thank you
is there anyway we can find out the height and weight stats for the 4 girls who were murdered in atlantic city?

 

[chemcopout]

Based on that, Waterman doesn't really fit the pattern.

waterman would be the tallest and heaviest out of the 4 girls' bodies found. she also is the last victim that we know of by the killer

i think maybe just maybe its possible he's found a way to perfect his m.o.
say maybe he is a small man and picked smaller girls that were easier for him to over power.
maybe he used a taser or something on waterman (if she is his victim and it looks like she is) so that he could "get control" of her quicker. it may be possible that his victim type changed, or he has other victims we just aren't aware of yet (likely)

 

[chemcopout]

Waterman's size might be proof that the perceived pattern of "tiny women only" is coincidental -- but she was still on the small side. She could have advertised herself as "petite" without misleading anyone.

Maybe this perp looked for small women because he is small himself, and wanted to minimize his own risk of being overpowered. Or perhaps throwing the bodies out of the vehicle is part of the thrill. Can't rule out bizarreness like that with serial killers.

These victims all must have charged relatively high prices for their services. Along with "access to burlap," perhaps this guy's profile should include some socioeconomic status (maybe a successful contractor?). Or perhaps no wife or family, so therefore extra money to spend on escorts.

ita on the small guy part, and smaller women being easier for him to overpower. however if he is killing them, then i doubt he pays them. he may take money they have on them.

its possible the dumping of bodies thrills him, yet more likely the kill, the whole ordeal is a thrill to him. likely he won't stop until finally caught. these killers use killing as their "drug" and are addicted to it

as for wife family it's possible he has one yet they have no idea; look at btk, his family and friends were all clueless

 

[chemcopout]

ok, are you linking these bodies with religious ideology? was this text attributed to a suspect or the crime scene? are you referring to the bodies in PA where the feet of the victims face eastward?

It's very interesting, could you maybe clarify a little bit?

in the atlantic city murders of 4 prostitutes, their bodies were all found with their heads facing east; i believe that's what soul is referring to.

i think there are a lot of religions that have context of facing east, not sure of the whole list...

 

[tfrohning]

Atlantic City police identified the victims as Molly Jean Dilts, 20; Kim Raffo, 35; Tracy Ann Roberts, 23; and Barbara V. Breidor, 42.

Found in a drainage ditch in Egg Harbor Township on Monday was identified. The woman is 23-year-old Tracy Ann Roberts. Roberts was a 5'8" tall, white female, about 120 pounds with a butterfly tattoo on the small of her back.

Kim Raffo, 35.

Breidor, 5'7" white female, weighing between 140 and 150 pounds who was dressed in Capri blue pants and a long-sleeved brown zippered jacket when her body was found.

Ms. Dilts — a 5-foot, 160-pound blue-eyed woman with a bulldog tattooed on her back, a Playboy bunny tattooed on her right shoulder, and “Molly” tattooed near her navel.

Thats all I can find. HTH

I changing my theory on the AC and LI being the same!

Big age different, taller... MS Dilts 160 lbs for 5 ft hmmm

Really scary that there two serial killers not very far from each other.

Thanks goodness that Kensington strangler was caught!

 

[tfrohning]

For prostitutes, add 'serial killers' to list of dangers, as shown by 4 bodies in New York
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ca...qM5gIrVOtdVpUmgL7p-g8rV9koYmvLA?docId=5801062

A lot of info on the victims

 

[Soulmagent]

ok, are you linking these bodies with religious ideology? was this text attributed to a suspect or the crime scene? are you referring to the bodies in PA where the feet of the victims face eastward?

It's very interesting, could you maybe clarify a little bit?

I was exploring an avenue. Ideology doesnt have to be religous but the text I quoted was a religious text.

I should have bolded the part of interest to me , which was " when his dead is laid out before him'' .I googled the term " the bodies before him" because the the victims being together so each time he placed a body there after the first ,the others where layed out before him. No matter what else that had to be true. I couldnt bring myself to snip the text.

The bodies where wrapped in burlap and there where five. Those are the only facts I have and I cannot link anything with that. I was just wondering outloud after becoming inspired to do so from your post ,mainly this

if they have any idea or focus...this has got to be pretty freaky for the killer...

The burlap is interesting. I do think the AC murders are connected.

 

[Aleph]

ita on the small guy part, and smaller women being easier for him to overpower. however if he is killing them, then i doubt he pays them. he may take money they have on them.

Good point.

as for wife family it's possible he has one yet they have no idea; look at btk, his family and friends were all clueless

What these particular crimes do require is privacy, and during the summer months in a vacation-type area, this is something that a family man would be unlikely to have. For example, BTK mostly broke into other people's homes, so he didn't have to use his own, but presumably that would be more difficult for this killer during the crowded summer vacation season, when it appears these crimes were committed.

A hotel would also be unlikely, due to the privacy issue and the need to remove the body without attracting attention. He could have put the bodies in a suitcase, since the victims were small, but that seems overly elaborate. This killer is probably not that desperate to "do his thing."

Most likely, this guy has his own home to himself, at least during the summer months, though he could be using a relative's house. Perhaps that's where the burlap comes from. Picking a woman off the Internet and having her come to him suggests a certain amount of privilege, a familiarity with choosing what he wants and having it delivered. That suggests money to me.

It may also indicate shyness or an unusual personal appearance. As others have pointed out, trolling for Craigslist prostitutes with the confidence that he is not leaving a digital trail takes some technological sophistication, so he could be a techie or something like that, perhaps someone who learned his skills in the military.

If he is revisiting this crime scene, as I am told so many serial killers do, he may also have an interest in nature and hiking, and may own a dog.

 

[Aleph]

These bodies tell the story of a killer in the midst of a comfortable routine. Not a beginner, not someone desperate and sloppy. Since most of the murders probably took place during the summer months, he is probably a summer vacationer.

He probably has another dump site in his home town that hasn't been discovered yet. Does anyone know of another city where a bunch of Craigslist prostitutes have gone missing?

 

[chemcopout]

These bodies tell the story of a killer in the midst of a comfortable routine. Not a beginner, not someone desperate and sloppy. Since most of the murders probably took place during the summer months, he is probably a summer vacationer.

He probably has another dump site in his home town that hasn't been discovered yet. Does anyone know of another city where a bunch of Craigslist prostitutes have gone missing?

this is a very good point, all the murders take place during summer months, and that the killer may be a vacationer.
if he is a vacationer, does he vacation with his family? is he in his early to late 20's and would stay in a summer home with family? is he a family man? or does he stay by himself?

hadden clark vacationed with his family in cape cod and supposedly may have killed some women while there.

are there jobs there that are available during summers only to help with the tourists?

as for a hometown with missing craigslist prostitutes, i will try to look and see if i can find anything. wish me luck with the search =p
it may be possible if he is killing in other comfort zones, the girls haven't been listed as missing, yet we can hope

 

[carbuff]

It's possible also that earlier murders might have happened through something other than Craigslist, which is a relatively recent phenomenon.

 

[chemcopout]

It's possible also that earlier murders might have happened through something other than Craigslist, which is a relatively recent phenomenon.

true that! depending on how old the killer is, we really have no idea if these are his first victims. imo, i feel he has others somewhere yet to be found.

i tried looking at nypd's website and for the 5 burroughs they hardly have any missing people listed. it's unbelievable that a city that big has a handful listed.

i wonder how many missing people are actually reported to them?
for prostitutes, its going to be hard to see if some are missing anywhere, as they are hard to track down. they take off on their own, people might not necessarily report them missing. unfortunately this is why serial killers choose them.


the one thing that stands out to me is the calls to barthelemy's family via her cell phone. out of all the victims, she is the only who whose family got harassing calls that we know of. it's almost personal.
why would she be singled out for the killer to call her family to harass them about their missing/deceased daughter?

obviously the killer doesn't like hookers at all. it seems the girls he has targeted didn't have pimps. he may not have known waterman's boyfriend was her pimp and waterman likely didn't tell him.

these working girls seem to take comfort in that he likes his victims small and petite according to this article:
http://gothamist.com/2011/01/30/prostitutes_take_precautions_agains.php

"they're being more careful meeting new johns and taking comfort in the fact that this latest Long Island serial killer seems to have a thing for girls of a Snooki-sized stature (all of the victims but one were under 5" feet)."

this is really a false comfort for the working girls, the killer may perfect his m.o. and start targeting other sizes. if he uses a taser and stuns them he could gain control as well. this is assuming the killer may be small in stature and wants girls easy to overpower. he could just have a preference for smaller girls, although waterman didn't seem as small as the others.

 

[Aleph]

It would be interesting to hear from someone who was familiar with the Craigslist prostitution scene, especially since that section of the site is now closed. It would tell us more about the culture in which the killer and his victims interacted.

How much would he have probably learned about them before meeting, and vice-versa? Would it have been unusual to ask ahead of time if the prostitute had a pimp or another form of protection?

 

[Aleph]

It's possible also that earlier murders might have happened through something other than Craigslist, which is a relatively recent phenomenon.

True. But while a traditional escort service would likely ask for ID, and a prostitute who works the streets probably has a pimp or friends watching out for her, the Internet offers a peculiar anonymity on both sides of the transaction. This killer took advantage of that. The Craigslist system "works" for him.

If this killer is experienced, as I suspect he is, how might he have found victims before Craigslist became popular about six or seven years ago? This might give us a clue as to what the earlier killings may have looked like. Right now, we probably don't know enough about him to be able to conclude much, but it's a good question to be aware of.

 

[Verity]

He could have searched Craigslist for ads using an internet cafe, not his own computer or phone? There's one near Penn Station for example, Rick's Cyber Cafe - 147 W. 43 St, New York. Then he would phone using coin pay phones at the station. I don't know they still have them for a fact, but imagine with all the NYC tourists, they would somewhere, same as airports. Or he could call from a hotel lobby phone. Massapequa is fairly high end middle-class neighborhood within commuting distance of NYC. He could be a professional, a Wall Street broker or a doctor even, who use the LIRR to commute from home and zip cars to take side trips from the city. Pings from NYC & Massapequa, added to about the remotest part of the island there is for an undisturbed grave site, does seem to point to someone who has local knowledge and is comfortable in both NYC and Long island - including suburbia, rural country and city, all very distinctive areas within easy commuting distance. As someone else said, the very act of calling up a prostitute to have them delivered to you personally kind if implies a certain amount of affluence. He could be another btk hidden in plain sight although I hope I'm wrong, just the thought makes me :sick:

 

[Missizzy]

Another WSer alerted me to the fact that some have posed some questions concerning the Craigslist prostitution world as I haven't been following this thread closely. I followed Craigslist's Erotic Services, daily, from May 2008 until they were shut down (to a degree). My daughter was trafficked and remains missing. She is a beautiful 22 year old but has a 63 IQ and functions more like an 8 year old. Her female procurer is being held in a CA jail for attempted murder currently. It's a very very dangerous lifestyle and one which many enter not knowing at all what to expect.

I've worked with LE, the FBI, and the Polaris Project. My focus has been on the I-5 corridor from CA to WA but I know my daughter has been as far as Chicago and Las Vegas (because of hospital bills). I would think that there's some regional differences but also many similarities with the "business plan". There are certain "code" words and things shown in the photos that can tell a bit of a story.

I'm certainly no expert but if I can answer a question, I'd be glad to help. I studied those ads and photos very very closely and did learn a few things. The Special Agent assigned to our case also showed me how to check myredbook and a few other sites. I'm closing off for tonight but will be back on tomorrow morning and will check this thread.

 

[Tugela]

Craigslist closed down their adult section, but the adds just migrated to different parts of Craigslist or other similar sites such as Duttslist and Backpage. You can probably find similar adds in local newspapers and social web sites as well.

The craigslist escorts generally rank somewhere inbetween streetwalkers and the regular agency/independent escorts. Their clients would be lower to middle class, so not particularly wealthy but with enough money to afford such services. The craigslist girls are generally less organized and frequently are part time/amateurs, so they are more vulnerable than traditional escorts. Traditional escorts do sometimes use advertising such as craigslist, but those sorts of girls generally operate from incalls or, if they do outcalls as well, to hotels only.

I doubt that these victims were taken from incalls, that would be far too risky for the perp, these ladies would have been doing outcalls. I don't think hotels would have been where they were killed, again, too risky. Motels perhaps, but more likely they went to the perps home or apartment.

 

[Aleph]

Another WSer alerted me to the fact that some have posed some questions concerning the Craigslist prostitution world as I haven't been following this thread closely. I followed Craigslist's Erotic Services, daily, from May 2008 until they were shut down (to a degree). My daughter was trafficked and remains missing. She is a beautiful 22 year old but has a 63 IQ and functions more like an 8 year old. Her female procurer is being held in a CA jail for attempted murder currently. It's a very very dangerous lifestyle and one which many enter not knowing at all what to expect.

I've worked with LE, the FBI, and the Polaris Project. My focus has been on the I-5 corridor from CA to WA but I know my daughter has been as far as Chicago and Las Vegas (because of hospital bills). I would think that there's some regional differences but also many similarities with the "business plan". There are certain "code" words and things shown in the photos that can tell a bit of a story.

I'm certainly no expert but if I can answer a question, I'd be glad to help. I studied those ads and photos very very closely and did learn a few things. The Special Agent assigned to our case also showed me how to check myredbook and a few other sites. I'm closing off for tonight but will be back on tomorrow morning and will check this thread.

Thanks Missizzy, and I'm sorry to hear what you're going through with your daughter. I can't imagine how painful that must be. I hope you find a happy resolution, and soon.

Do sex workers on Craigslist generally post measurements such as their height and weight? Do you know if there were safety precautions that such women might routinely follow?