NY-Long Island-Four bodies found on Beach-Possible Serial Killer-Dec 2010 #1

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Hi All :seeya:

New to Websleuths and Im so glad to see so many concerned people and positive opinions, especially since the women were prostitutes. Thank you for keeping everyone updated, and most of all, for your insight! If everyone posting here could magically meet together, this case would be cracked!

I have been following this story since Shannan Gilbert went missing. And became kind of obsessed with the case, even after finding out she wasn't one of the bodies found.

The 4 bodies found were women who advertised on websites such as craigslist - something I know a little TOO much about. Is it possible that the women were working for an escort service? Escort services advertise on these websites as well..they will advertise the escorts as IF they were independent and when you call, an operator answers. IMO, if an escort goes missing after being sent to a client, an escort service isn't going to call police to report an escort missing. The service will assume the girl ran off with the money, or was picked up by her pimp, stayed with the client, went home, whatever! And years later, after never hearing from that girl again, an operator will nonchalantly say "hey, remember that girl, whatever happened to her?"

About the women being petite, I don't think he had a fetish really. Maybe he likes small women ( Good things DO come in small packages ) or maybe he chose them so he can over power them, and maybe he is small himself, but maybe he chose petite women, simply because they FIT in the burlap. Does anyone know if it was 2 bodies or all of the bodies in burlap? If he used the burlap with his first two victims, and got away with it for months and months, maybe he got the confidence to not need the burlap anymore and that is why his third victim, Waterman didn't have to be so small. Then again, craigslist was full of competitive escorts sugar coating their stats and Waterman might have.

As I was gooooogling for how to get access to burlap in that area, I notice there are lots of options - internet, there's burlap on fencing in the area, Long Island Poly Bag Co not far from Massapequa sells it, which if you google map it, it's a residence, not a business (odd), some say it washes up on shore, agricultural working people use it, but being a city girl, I noticed the area is woodsy and there are camps all over, google images shows children racing in big burlap sacks. The sacks arent huge, but you can fit a petite body in one. No matter where they got it from, they had access to it, and used it. That material though, hopefully holds some important evidence.

Did anyone hear about the perv they arrested this week? They broke down his door to arrest him because he raped an escort after finding her on craigslist. The pig cop said something along the lines of he didnt consider it a rape, it was more of 'theft of service'! WTF ?!!

Frustrating...We can go on and on and branch out into different happenings and reasonings until we have more facts. Hopefully this investigation is being kept quiet because they are on to something! And not because they have no leads. Usually there is 1 body, 1 story. But there are 4 bodies. I would think there is 4x the chance of catching this fu*k! I just hope this isn't forgotten about as was the Atlantic City killings. It's scary but it's sad.

And they aren't looking for Shannan, WHY? Because it's winter and they are waiting for the spring?? I never heard of these people taking a winter break, especially with a case like this. They aren't looking for Shannan for the same reason they weren't looking for her since MAY! - because she's a prostitute. You know they really can't be looking for much if Shannan's sister visited the area, and found her earring!

OK im done...I just have one more question and if anyone can help, that would be great! If you are familiar with google maps, and the location of the bodies found, which I think is right before the boardwalk, I am wondering why the square shaped piece of land in that area looks cut into even sections. It looks too measured out to be natural. Anyone know what I'm talking about?

Thanks for reading, and sorry for being a scatterbrain!

:seeya:
 
I was thinking the killer might be on the younger side because of all the immature prank calls to Barthelemy's family. It wasn't just 1 sick HA I got your daughter/sister! It seems more of a childish game...he called 6 times.
But who says older men don't play childish games...Anyone who can do this, has lost their marbles!

Crazy thought, I just saw something in the news about finding Charles Manson with a phone in prison...this is straight out of a movie, but maybe a serial killer, from prison, ordered 4 different people to kill 4 different prostitutes and leave them in the same area..:waitasec: maybe not.

Anyone know if the bodies were strategically placed exactly 500 ft from eachother?

Is a boat totally out of the question? Many boats, lots of ocean, no one can hear a scream, and one couldn't escape in the middle of the ocean..
 
InternetGirl101

:welcome4:

I am so glad you joined us and appreciate your input!

wm

ETA....BTW everyone. This is my 3000 th post. My how time flies here on WS. woohoo!
 
I only guessed at a foot fetish because of the height issue and that made sence and works for me. It could be any fetish. I wish we know more about the girls likes and dislikes and limits as I think it would help.

I don't think their limits would factor into this, he is going to kill them so respecting their limits isn't an issue (unless he wants some sort of consensual foreplay but even then it likely isn't that specialized).

Also regarding the foot fetish vs. height thing, why not just ask them their height and weight? No need to be subtle about it, I am sure many clients ask about that.
 
sadistic killers graduate to murder.

my guess is he plays out the same scenario over and over...this situation doesn't sound like the typical...pick up a street girl, rape and strangle...

I beleive this guy likes to have privacy and time, so that he can enjoy his rituals.

He has a place.

He might be filming or recording

He uses the bags because he can carry or drag the victim from the car more easily, and move the body unseen. I agree that he wants a girl that he can fit in the bags.
 
Hi, I wonder if he has a spoofcard ,,,this card can change your caller Id to anything you want? it seems like he would be that type, Prank callers seem to have all kinds of gagets now,(application to change ID and Voice )
also, I think he takes them to his house via the car garage at night summertime(everyone has A/C on in the neighborhood and sleeping and His family goes on vacation without him because he has to work)
also, that area with the bodies was and still has been a place where people race fast cars mustangs vettes, etc
He is Like a Punisher like the comic book series, Ok Thats all I got for Know ,,
 
Hi, I wonder if he has a spoofcard ,,,this card can change your caller Id to anything you want? it seems like he would be that type, Prank callers seem to have all kinds of gagets now,(application to change ID and Voice )

Disposable cell phone, or these days you can get free temporary phone numbers online (it forwards the call to whatever phone you want and I believe some offer voicemail too). You can post a new number everyday if you want, they offer it specifically for running ads on places like craigslist.

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/create-free-temporary-phone-numbers-easily-with-inumbr/
 
maybe he owns a couple of buildings, or has a place with a basement... for some reason I don't see this as the neighbor guy...I could be wrong...while it's super coincidental that a guy that called a tute up was right next door...it seems unlikely that he would dump the bodies so close by...although look at the killer that was living with a house full of bodies awhile back...

I feel like this guy is slick, real slick. But he's gonna get caught.
 
maybe he owns a couple of buildings, or has a place with a basement... for some reason I don't see this as the neighbor guy...I could be wrong...while it's super coincidental that a guy that called a tute up was right next door...it seems unlikely that he would dump the bodies so close by...although look at the killer that was living with a house full of bodies awhile back...

I feel like this guy is slick, real slick. But he's gonna get caught.

I've thought about that too... it would be a really bad idea for JB to dump bodies so close to his house, especially since he already had a known connection to a missing girl (SG).

Having said that, I'm going to be shocked if JB ends up having nothing to do with this. Playing devil's advocate for a moment, I guess it's possible that someone very crafty was trying to frame him by moving the bodies from another location after hearing about SG going missing from his house; maybe he really did have nothing to do with it and SG ended up someplace else (running away, abducted by driver, drowning?) but I find that very hard to believe. Sorry for that run-on sentence, I've got a million and one thoughts on this case...
 
Hope my last post doesn't get me kicked from here! ^ LOL

Agreed that he was planning to kill these women anyway, so he wouldn't have cared about what their limits were, whether they are D4W (down for whatever) or not. Infact, maybe he would even act as if he wasn't looking for anything extra/extraordinary, in a way, gaining the escorts' trust, so that they think he is just a normal guy and safe to meet with.

The spoofcard and the temp numbers are perfect for prank calling, and disguising your number/voice, but what about when the escort needs to call back to confirm their address, or to say they arrived, or whatever. I hope they would at least confirm the client's phone number. And if he was using the spoofcard, the girls would call back and get the wrong number. I've heard of people going into MetroPCS, using a made up name, address, everything and walking out with a working phone, no contract, no ID needed, and no intention of keeping the phone for more than a month, using it for the day or until they get shut off for not paying the bill. Hopefully he wasn't THAT up on the tricks of the trade so they can track him the hell down! and I think the spoof and temporary numbers can be traced back to the initial phone somehow.

Brewer...He was a suspect up UNTIL they found out Shannan wasn't among the bodies. Why should that rule him out?? Everyone knows Shannan was running from that man's house screaming that someone was trying to kill her! Granted, she might have been and witnesses say she was high, delirious, whatever, but this PROSTITUTE was on the phone with the POLICE for 23 MINUTES asking for help for a reason. A part of me wishes it was Brewer to prove Shannan wasn't just a crazy high hooker. But, putting my trust in LE, I just hope they ran-sacked his place and have reasons to believe he is not a suspect. And I agree leaving the bodies so close to home would've been dumb. And killing Waterman, a month after Shannan made a big scene in his neighborhood, would've been dumber.

The hardest thing for me to decide on is whether or not I think it is a coincidence that an escort went missing around the same area as a graveyard of 4 more escorts...I don't know what to think.
All I do know is when I heard they found the first body ( I did think it was Shannan ) but the story confused me. First a man walking his dog stumbled upon the body. Then, a police and police dog discovered the body during K9 training camp. OK. THEN, they were there because they were looking for Shannan. If they were there looking for her, I know it's the same vicinity, but why weren't they looking a little closer to Brewer's or Coletti's house, where she was last seen? And why 8 months later??? I think once they surprisingly found the first body, they searched the system for a missing person who was last seen closest to the area, and Shannan's name was chosen to be the missing person who they "were searching for."

One more thing I'd like to bring up is the positioning of the 4 bodies. They say the first body found was that of Melissa Barthelemy. There was another body to the east of that one, and 2 more to the west. It seems that it is possible the bodies were placed in the order in which they went missing/were killed. Brainard Barnes, Barthelemy, Waterman, then Costello. This can add to his compulsive and systematic strive for perfection in his acts of murdering these women.
 
Interesting list!

I think this guy has a roll of burlap in his shed and the one girl who didn't fit the petite and slim characteristic deliberately misled him. I don't believe these girls were picked because they were small enough to fit inside a burlap bag, and I also don't recall LE saying that the burlap was a bag.

I think he's attracted to the petite type, that's why he picked them, or advertised for them more likely. And quite possibly he's married to someone of similar physique and has kids. Look at 19 yr old Brooke who was featured on dateline tonight - her killer was married with 3 kids.

I think this is a middle aged married man with kids living on the Island with a day job in the city and I think he's still in the area.

If anyone knows any NYC/ LI services/ programs to help these young girls get out of the game, it might be useful to post links here, as we may have some extra guest readers for this thread from time to time, who are scared out of their minds, but can't seem to get out. The following message is for them - you could be the next victim. Don't chance your luck - don't be a "semi-pro". Nobody has a clue who this is yet, it could be anyone, but one thing is certain - he's going to strike again unless he's caught. There's only one way to ensure you won't become the next victim. Get help to get out of the game.

ETA: make the links to help services a sticky?
 
The spoofcard and the temp numbers are perfect for prank calling, and disguising your number/voice, but what about when the escort needs to call back to confirm their address, or to say they arrived, or whatever. I hope they would at least confirm the client's phone number. And if he was using the spoofcard, the girls would call back and get the wrong number. I've heard of people going into MetroPCS, using a made up name, address, everything and walking out with a working phone, no contract, no ID needed, and no intention of keeping the phone for more than a month, using it for the day or until they get shut off for not paying the bill.

The temp phone numbers work as long as you want them too (a day, a month, etc...). I beleive some services offer local area codes too.

As far as a temp cell phone that is super easy. Walmart sells them off the shelf with air time, course one would have to be careful about store video surveillance tracing the buyer (a guy was buying long distance cards that way and he FBI tracked it to the store and saw the video footage) but that is easy to avoid. Go to a walmart in a bad area and bribe some kid to buy the phone for you.
 
WHAT A GREAT IDEA! I found 3 places!


--------------------------------------------------------

Sex Industry Survivors' Anonymous
888-702-7273 (toll-free)
http://www.sexindustrysurvivors.com

Mission: Support groups for women and men who are currently in the sex industry and are trying to get out or who have already gotten out but are trying to find recovery. Membership requirement is a desire to leave the sex industry.
Services: Peer support meetings of survivors talking to one another. Meeting formats may be downloaded at no cost to all who want to set up local meetings.

----------------------------------------------------------

Women In Need, Inc.
Hotline: (800) HELPWIN (435-7946)
Phone: (212) 695-4758
Web: http://www.women-in-need.org

----------------------------------------------------------

Safe Horizon
2 Lafayette Street
New York, NY 10007
Hotline: 24-hour Domestic Violence Hotline: (800) 621-HOPE (4673); Rape, Sexual Assault & Incest Hotline: (212) 227-3000
Phone: 24-hour Crime Victims Hotline: (866) 689-HELP (4357)
Phone: Office: (212) 577-7700
Web: http://www.safehorizon.org
Email: help@safehorizon.org
 
I don't think their limits would factor into this, he is going to kill them so respecting their limits isn't an issue (unless he wants some sort of consensual foreplay but even then it likely isn't that specialized).

Also regarding the foot fetish vs. height thing, why not just ask them their height and weight? No need to be subtle about it, I am sure many clients ask about that.

Knowing their limits could help narrow down the type of ads they responded to. I guess I should have put that in the post. So that would be how they facter in.

I guess if he was selective enough to ask their height and weight there may be hundreds of girls he talked to until he found the correct victim. Plus if they did lie he would be looking for his ideal if they didnt fit it So I was thinking he may use more selective means in addition to asking. So I think it to be more selective than counting on them being truthful.
 
Psychics weigh in: Who is the Gilgo Beach killer?

Police are still investigating the multiple murders.


Mary Rose, a Babylon-based psychic with 25 years of police profiling experience, believes that the Gilgo Beach serial killer is living among us, hiding in plain sight.

“He commutes on the Long Island Rail Road. He has hazel or light-colored eyes. He’s very charming but hates his mother with a passion. It’s possible that his mother is a petite woman,” Rose told Metro.

“He has anger management issues and a cocaine problem. Not a good combination,” she continued. “It’s very possible that he was high on cocaine when the killings occurred. He could be a strangler. I see women’s necks. He goes for the jugular.”

On Jan. 24, the three remaining women’s bodies found on Gilgo Beach last December were positively identified by Long Island authorities, bringing the total number of corpses found and named to four. Suffolk County Police Commissioner Richard Dormer determined that the case has all the marks of a serial killer.

“This guy is very clever. It’s like a game to him,” said Dawn Joly, a psychic from Smithtown. “He’s outgoing, but I get a chemical imbalance.

“First, he connects with his victims sexually,” Joly added. “I feel a white car and a wooded area. I see a Jones Beach connection. He travels around but he is from New York. I believe he is on Long Island.”

“He’s hostile and does not respect women. He has serious mommy issues,” said J. Pelligrino, a seer from Huntington. “I believe he’s gone. This case has gotten too much attention. He’s hiding out in a place with a heavy population.”
 
Psychics weigh in: Who is the Gilgo Beach killer?

Police are still investigating the multiple murders.


Mary Rose, a Babylon-based psychic with 25 years of police profiling experience, believes that the Gilgo Beach serial killer is living among us, hiding in plain sight.

“He commutes on the Long Island Rail Road. He has hazel or light-colored eyes. He’s very charming but hates his mother with a passion. It’s possible that his mother is a petite woman,” Rose told Metro.

“He has anger management issues and a cocaine problem. Not a good combination,” she continued. “It’s very possible that he was high on cocaine when the killings occurred. He could be a strangler. I see women’s necks. He goes for the jugular.”

On Jan. 24, the three remaining women’s bodies found on Gilgo Beach last December were positively identified by Long Island authorities, bringing the total number of corpses found and named to four. Suffolk County Police Commissioner Richard Dormer determined that the case has all the marks of a serial killer.

“This guy is very clever. It’s like a game to him,” said Dawn Joly, a psychic from Smithtown. “He’s outgoing, but I get a chemical imbalance.

“First, he connects with his victims sexually,” Joly added. “I feel a white car and a wooded area. I see a Jones Beach connection. He travels around but he is from New York. I believe he is on Long Island.”

“He’s hostile and does not respect women. He has serious mommy issues,” said J. Pelligrino, a seer from Huntington. “I believe he’s gone. This case has gotten too much attention. He’s hiding out in a place with a heavy population.”

Interesting... of course most hooker killers are stranglers, or combo killers...strangle and stab or strangle and laccerate, ususally the head.

sorry to be graphic.
 
And maybe another body found~

http://www.news12.com/articleDetail...on=1&news_type=news&region_name=LI&regionId=1

(02/07/11) GILGO BEACH - Officials say bones have been found on the shore near Gilgo Beach.

The images were snapped by Lorraine Kinsley who noticed the bones yesterday afternoon. Kinsley says she couldn\'t believe what she saw.

Police have not yet confirmed whether the bones belong to a human or an animal.

As News 12 first reported, the remains of four women were found at Gilgo Beach in December.

Investigators believe a serial killer was behind the murders.



I drove Ocean Parkway yesterday and wondered why back in December K9s were searching that one area where the first body was discovered. There is miles and miles of beaches and shoreline here so why that spot? I know Shannon was last seen "near" there but not all that close really.
 
maybe he has first wife issues or ex girlfriend issues....
 
And maybe another body found~

http://www.news12.com/articleDetail...on=1&news_type=news&region_name=LI&regionId=1

(02/07/11) GILGO BEACH - Officials say bones have been found on the shore near Gilgo Beach.

The images were snapped by Lorraine Kinsley who noticed the bones yesterday afternoon. Kinsley says she couldn\'t believe what she saw.

Police have not yet confirmed whether the bones belong to a human or an animal.

As News 12 first reported, the remains of four women were found at Gilgo Beach in December.

Investigators believe a serial killer was behind the murders.



I drove Ocean Parkway yesterday and wondered why back in December K9s were searching that one area where the first body was discovered. There is miles and miles of beaches and shoreline here so why that spot? I know Shannon was last seen "near" there but not all that close really.

Interesting, thanks for posting this. I just had my boss look at the pictures in the News 12 video (he's a chiropractor and I figured the human spine is his area of expertise) and he said he's not 100% sure but it does appear to be human to him, especially in the second picture. I suppose we just have to wait and see but I'm thinking this case is about to get even weirder.
 
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