Identified! NY - Mount Vernon, WhtFem 51UFNY, 18-25, Left Near Junkyard, Feb'88 - Veronica Wiederhold

[Al Ka]

To answer your question, LE has confirmed that MVJD was never pregnant.

I knew I should have reread the whole thread :truce:

Carl didn't have an actual photo or xray of MVJD's teeth; he did it on description alone

Yes, I am aware, bless, he did pretty good job. From his description and teeth reconstruction picture it is very clear how MVJD teeth might have looked like.

the key info:

(1) She had no dental work. All of her teeth (except wisdom teeth 1, 16, 17, and 32) were present and unrestored. The wisdom teeth were unerupted.
(2) Her upper canines tilted out, and slightly overlapped the adjacent lateral incisors. So they probably would have had sort of a fanged appearance (my own interpretation, not stated as such the report).

After Carl's reconstruction I had a bit closer look at Brenda Dunham's pictures again and I just thought that it did look that her canines tilted out slightly, but again, I really do not know enough about it, that is why I suggested for experts here just to have a look at her latest pics (even though she gave a birth). By the way, coincidentally it was her birthday yesterday - 13th February. For those who would like to just to have a look, her FB page and her WS thread again:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Brenda-Dunham-Missing-since-1985-from-Alton-MO/188687571232386
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...omasville-10-May-1985&p=11882722#post11882722

I believe George Primavera was a business related matter. Bedford is not that close to Mount Vernon (I don't know exactly but I estimate it's a 40 minute drive or so) and the two cities are worlds apart economically. Mount Vernon is the redheaded stepchild of Westchester County. Low income, majority minority, poor school systems, project housing etc. Like a smaller version of the Bronx. Bedford is a very upscale town with totally opposite demographics.

I had a bit further look into him, as I thought timing was too coincidental, but yes, I have not checked his location, only that it happened in the same county and that detective DiMase is in charge of Primavera's case too. He was business owner and rumours on the net suggests that it might have been his business partner and his family being threatened not to investigate. Anyway, yes, probably not related.

In anticipation of our girl's anniversary tomorrow, I have done the following:

Posted info and photos to News 12 FB page

Posted info and photos to LoHud FB page

Posted info and photos to our mayor's FB page as well as the FB page for Westchester County.

Emailed the head of LoHud and asked her to revisit the decision by a staff writer to not publish a new article about MVJD with updated info that Cathleen Martin has been ruled out.

Thank You!

 

[jessr927]

I had a bit further look into him, as I thought timing was too coincidental, but yes, I have not checked his location, only that it happened in the same county and that detective DiMase is in charge of Primavera's case too. He was business owner and rumours on the net suggests that it might have been his business partner and his family being threatened not to investigate. Anyway, yes, probably not related.

A Detective DiBiase is in charge of George Primavera's case. I misread it too and thought it said DiMase - I was wondering why he would be investigating cases so far out of his jurisdiction!

 

[mmecaut]

This might be way out there, but could she have been a gymnast? Something that struck me in one of the articles was the comment that her neck was noticeably thick for the size of her head, and that reminded me of gymnasts. Gymnasts might also be more likely to shave or wax their pubic area since they'd be in leotards, but a long-sleeved leotard wouldn't require shaving her underarms.

 

[jessr927]

This might be way out there, but could she have been a gymnast? Something that struck me in one of the articles was the comment that her neck was noticeably thick for the size of her head, and that reminded me of gymnasts. Gymnasts might also be more likely to shave or wax their pubic area since they'd be in leotards, but a long-sleeved leotard wouldn't require shaving her underarms.

That is really interesting, and something I would never have thought of. And that could explain the broccoli (keeping weight down) and cocaine possibly (to suppress appetite and keep active).

 

[Owutatangledweb]

timing and look may be right, not sure about the height.

http://doenetwork.org/cases/722dfon.html

 

[rats]

timing and look may be right, not sure about the height.

http://doenetwork.org/cases/722dfon.html

huh, kind of like the facial resemblance, the height, we've had worse.

Either way, today's her 28th anniversary. Here's hoping she's identified by the 29th!

 

[Springrain]

RIP beautiful girl. You were never forgotten. Hopefully you will have the name back you so deeply deserve by the 29th anniversary of your death. :rose:

 

[Jake479]

Today marks 28 years since her body was found. RIP Mount Vernon Jane Doe
We will never stop searching for your identity.

 

[jessr927]

Lots of new shares and likes of her Facebook page yesterday and today!

For anyone who wants to share, the url is www.facebook.com/MountVernonJaneDoe

Rest in peace, beautiful girl. We won't give up.

 

[rats]

hey guys! back with another possible. this one's a bit young (she would have turned 17 in 1988), but if she lost weight and grew her hair out a bit between 1986 and 1988, i can see her being MVJD.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/porrin_tamara.html
https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/7919/756
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2949dfpa.html
http://pennsylvaniamissing.com/porrintamaradawn.html

her missing date is somewhat unclear, but always in nov. 1986. (i've seen 11th, 13th (her bday), and 22nd (which is what most sites say).

thoughts?

 

[CarlK90245]

Something has always puzzled me about the description of how she was found carefully positioned on a set of used garage door springs.

We know she was positioned arms out to the sides and ankles crossed. That sounds to me like she was posed to look like Jesus on the cross.

I'm wondering how the springs were positioned. Were they positioned to form a cross?

If so, could her killer be a religious fanatic who was making a religious statement?

 

[zelda_s]

Something has always puzzled me about the description of how she was found carefully positioned on a set of used garage door springs.

We know she was positioned arms out to the sides and ankles crossed. That sounds to me like she was posed to look like Jesus on the cross.

I'm wondering how the springs were positioned. Were they positioned to form a cross?

If so, could her killer be a religious fanatic who was making a religious statement?

That would make sense. British serial killer Peter Sutcliffe thought god had sent him on a mission to kill sex workers.

 

[Springrain]

Something has always puzzled me about the description of how she was found carefully positioned on a set of used garage door springs.

We know she was positioned arms out to the sides and ankles crossed. That sounds to me like she was posed to look like Jesus on the cross.

I'm wondering how the springs were positioned. Were they positioned to form a cross?

If so, could her killer be a religious fanatic who was making a religious statement?

That's a good thought--would that be captured in the crime scene photo?

 

[CarlK90245]

That's a good thought--would that be captured in the crime scene photo?

The copy I have only shows her face. Her surroundings are blacked out.

 

[Al Ka]

Something has always puzzled me about the description of how she was found carefully positioned on a set of used garage door springs.

We know she was positioned arms out to the sides and ankles crossed. That sounds to me like she was posed to look like Jesus on the cross.

I'm wondering how the springs were positioned. Were they positioned to form a cross?

If so, could her killer be a religious fanatic who was making a religious statement?

In all articles they always described position of her body but actually never how the springs were positioned, only that it was set of springs (I have checked). Perhaps their position was not significant enough or if it was really cross, LE have not made it public. Discussion here about the cross from springs mainly came up as suggestion only due to her body being posed that way, not a fact.

Question why, why that body or spring position, came up before up thread but it was not discussed yet. It is clear what scene displayed, but again, why... Crime scene does seem to have religious connection, but my issue would be - if perp/s were really fanatics, and she was in some sex work would not they try to put her in some humiliating position rather than place her on the cross as their highly respected holy saint? Hmm on another thought though, are perp/s trying to display her as Virgin Mary???

 

[Al Ka]

Case I have promised to share previously, which I have looked at with regards to this case quite a few months back, so my memory is a bit fuzzy... It has everything we have suggested here before that is why I was struck by similarities... It has party, coke, attitude, revenge, strangulation, positioning of the body, significance of the dumping place and whole as the statement to others, in New York.

Robin Lynn Vitulli, mother of one, was working in night club and one night became involved in a drunken dispute with one of the Gotti (mob family), threatened him and slapped him in face in full view of everyone. She was found strangled, naked, in pile of garbage, with her legs sticking out, in the road known locally as “The Hole” in New York. That was in 1985.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...aks-justice-24-years-anguish-article-1.381033
http://nypost.com/2006/09/12/feds-eye-junior-in-85-hits-cold-cases-could-be-next-gotti-trial/

I have not posted it previously as I have no knowledge of the mob, and thought of idea being a bit stretched, but as they were mentioned up thread, I went to read up. I am sure there are some experts here who could enlighten us and if MVJD case could be possibly related. What I know of is that mob are known for "making statements" and that around 1986 after many years of relative peace they started violent killing spree and family wars.

In some million pages I read it did mention as well that they were two Westchester policeman working for the mob at that time frame and have done some killings on request for them too. I do not remember when it all came out anymore, but I think it was during one of the Gotti's trials in early 90ies.

 

[CarlK90245]

Question why, why that body or spring position, came up before up thread but it was not discussed yet. It is clear what scene displayed, but again, why... Crime scene does seem to have religious connection, but my issue would be - if perp/s were really fanatics, and she was in some sex work would not they try to put her in some humiliating position rather than place her on the cross as their highly respected holy saint? Hmm on another thought though, are perp/s trying to display her as Virgin Mary???

The biblical account of the crucifixion of Jesus states that Jesus "died for all of our sins".

So I am thinking that perhaps in the killer's mind, he is telling the world that she is a sinner and is dying for her own sins. Granted, dying for one's own sins is not perfectly analogous to Jesus dying for the sins of others, but that is what comes to my mind when thinking of a woman (maybe a prostitute) being posed like that.

 

[Springrain]

The biblical account of the crucifixion of Jesus states that Jesus "died for all of our sins".

So I am thinking that perhaps in the killer's mind, he is telling the world that she is a sinner and is dying for her own sins. Granted, dying for one's own sins is not perfectly analogous to Jesus dying for the sins of others, but that is what comes to my mind when thinking of a woman (maybe a prostitute) being posed like that.

Religious fanatic seems plausible; could he have been a religious fanatic trying to send a message or warning to other sex workers?

Obviously he could have just thrown her strangled body in a dumpster. He chose to take the time to pose her that way, meticulous planning.

I was thinking about the landlord Jess spoke of, maybe he (as she suggested) was spying on a tenant, they got into an altercation and he ended up strangling her with telephone cord. He felt some sort of remorse so he posed her as if she was dying for sin...but whose sin? His maybe? (Sorry if this makes no sense, I'm only half awake.)

 

[catherine.]

When crucifixion was used as a form of execution, it was done to be as public and humiliating as possible. The person was stripped naked and left on the crucifix long after they had died. Basically a warning to others to not commit the same crime.

She could have been left there as a warning to sex workers, but I would think her killer would have struck again. I wonder if she was left as a warning to her family or boyfriend/husband or friends. Maybe someone owed money? Someone had brought up the theory of the Mob/Mafia in the past, but I really don't know a lot about them.

 

[jessr927]

Great find, Al Ka. I don't remember Robin Vitulli's case, but yes, Amber St. in Brooklyn where she was dumped, is known as The Hole. It's a very spooky looking place. The Hole refers not just to Amber St. but is the name of the neighborhood.

http://ny.curbed.com/2014/6/24/10084028/tour-the-hole-nycs-rundown-brooklyn-queens-border-town

Mount Vernon has a mob history, I don't know the extent, but they do still operate some businesses here. I know one family who is involved and another guy who was rumored to be a big deal mob guy, but he died several years back (probably close to 10 years ago really). Huge turn out for his funeral. I would not be surprised that MVJD knew something she shouldn't know and that's how they got rid of her. IIRC the mob did have a lot of dealings in the part of town where she was found.

Case I have promised to share previously, which I have looked at with regards to this case quite a few months back, so my memory is a bit fuzzy... It has everything we have suggested here before that is why I was struck by similarities... It has party, coke, attitude, revenge, strangulation, positioning of the body, significance of the dumping place and whole as the statement to others, in New York.

Robin Lynn Vitulli, mother of one, was working in night club and one night became involved in a drunken dispute with one of the Gotti (mob family), threatened him and slapped him in face in full view of everyone. She was found strangled, naked, in pile of garbage, with her legs sticking out, in the road known locally as “The Hole” in New York. That was in 1985.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/cri...aks-justice-24-years-anguish-article-1.381033
http://nypost.com/2006/09/12/feds-eye-junior-in-85-hits-cold-cases-could-be-next-gotti-trial/

I have not posted it previously as I have no knowledge of the mob, and thought of idea being a bit stretched, but as they were mentioned up thread, I went to read up. I am sure there are some experts here who could enlighten us and if MVJD case could be possibly related. What I know of is that mob are known for "making statements" and that around 1986 after many years of relative peace they started violent killing spree and family wars.

In some million pages I read it did mention as well that they were two Westchester policeman working for the mob at that time frame and have done some killings on request for them too. I do not remember when it all came out anymore, but I think it was during one of the Gotti's trials in early 90ies.