NY - Search for escaped convicted killers, David Sweat & Richard Matt, Dannemora #5

[GGE]

I'm not entirely sure of what value this may be. But here's a registry pertaining to the DNA-laced cabin. Possibly, someone here with knowlegde of this listing can expand(?)...

http://www.conservationregistry.org/projects/121768

Well it is privately leased to a hunting club and does not have public access, for one, so that SHOULD limit the number of people who would be in the general area, because people out on a leisurely hike at their vacation cottage would presumably be familiar with the fact that there's a hunting area nearby where they'd risk getting a stray bullet whizzing by if they wander in that direction... I would think that most people there would be armed, perhaps some cottages/cabins would be as well, and people who don't belong there would be somewhat limited. JMO. I also think it's pretty normal for LE type people to enjoy a hunting club since their work has them around guns and target practice is always good to stay up to date with.

These are JMOs.

 

[Hatfield]

SBM someone on CNN said yesterday that with 1000 LE combing the woods trackers would be useless at this point, 1000 people are breaking twigs and leaving footprints etc. plus they said the police don't have very many people who track. If there's a transcript on CNN.com for yesterday between maybe 11am and 8pm then it would be somewhere in those hours but I'm afraid I can't narrow it down much more except to say I think it was afternoon/evening. Otherwise not sure I can provide a source better than CNN.

Thats what I mean about possible administrative issues with this search effort.

The obvious thing that should have immediately been done is to not let anyone near that cabin except for some very well trained dogs and its handler. If that fails, then some well trained human foot trackers come in next.

But if they allowed others to begin trampling around, then administratively they failed.

Also, if it was wet, it should have made footprints all the more easier to track you would think.

My guess is the administrative part of this search effort is failing us.
When you have an exact location of last known whereabouts and only 1 day old, they should have been able to know where they went.
At least on TV "mantracker" they do. LOL

 

[GGE]

@four4rock - you happened across that site so obviously google is your friend and you have a knack for finding stuff - I wonder if you came across any info about that hunting club like who is eligible to be a member, how many members there are, etc?

 

[osu]

How do you take out meat, baked goods, all types of food etc and not have your husband notice? My husband would be pizzed if I took a whole pie to work and none of it came home LOL! (Cause he loves pie) But seriously how does that work? And to make it even more crazy they work at the same place..so he'd definitely notice if he was not getting MEAT, PIE etc at work. So lets say I take 10 raw or frozen hamburgers to work and 2 pies. By Friday if my hubby had only gotten one hamburger and one piece of pie...he'd have some questions.
Apparently Lyle was either not noticing or something..I mean wasnt his grocery bill getting out of control? Is he stupid?
Another thing is.. I believe Tilly chickened out when it came time to do the get a way car. She knew she would lose her job, get caught and seriously, how could she think that two prison inmates really wanted a loving life time relationship with her? It was all a very unwell thought of plan that had no good outcome for her at all. I also don't think the inmates really wanted her, or even really expected that she would show up. They used her IMO and her hubby is either in denial or just totally Blind, and stupid.
.

I think Tillie probably would have went ahead with the getaway plan, had she not had the Panic Attack w/ chest pains and ended up in the ER. I've had Panic Attacks before and they are very scary and you do feel as though you are having a heart attack. Due to her age, they probably gave her an EKG and kept her overnight for observation.

According to Lyle's interview, it sounds like she doesn't drive much or leave the house without him, so I'm not sure how she would have pulled off the get-away car. Maybe that's what induced the panic attack to begin with? The thought that she would have to drive somewhere alone at night?

 

[Greater Than]

CNN:

CO's Attorney: Tillie manipulated the COs with baked goods


^^Not believable IMO

I agree.

It's also interesting that COs plural is now being reported. I know Palmer's attorney said last night to AC that Tillie manipulated several other COs in addition to Palmer (as if that's some sort of acceptable defense for his client), but has the DA or investigation "sources" said the same? Why is Palmer the only CO we've heard has been questioned and/or suspended?

I think it's pretty clear Tillie alone did not enable this escape to happen. There has to be way more people, with way more authority. And I'm beginning to wonder if she was the planned fall-guy...the middle aged woman, the civilian employee, the one who would be "fully cooperative" and reveal relatively petty details (in the grand scheme of things) which would in all likelihood result in a plea deal for her information and cooperation....maybe? I don't know. Maybe we'll never know.

 

[epiphany]

Erik, the Closet Watcher, on CNN Live now

 

[epiphany]

Erik on CNN:

David Sweat was respected by inmates; they judged him by his crime: cop killer

He played chess w/Sweat and also was an artist, like David Sweat

 

[GGE]

I think Tillie probably would have went ahead with the getaway plan, had she not had the Panic Attack w/ chest pains and ended up in the ER. I've had Panic Attacks before and they are very scary and you do feel as though you are having a heart attack. Due to her age, they probably gave her an EKG and keep her overnight for observation.

According to Lyles interview though it sounds like she doesn't drive much or leave the house without him, so I'm not sure how she would have pulled off the get-away car. Maybe that's what induced the panic attack to begin with? The thought that she would have to drive somewhere alone?

I think it was just as simple as we've been led to believe.

Here's the JMO scenario from Tilly's point of view:

Tilly and Lyle are known to themselves and to S&M to drive to and from work together. Tilly knows she will be with Lyle at the time she's supposed to be driving the getaway car. So do S&M. This is why they were originally going to go back to Tilly's house (this is JMO remember) and kill Lyle there, then leave with Tilly and ride off into the sunset (it was night, whatever. )

Then Tilly got to feeling bad about this "kill Lyle" stuff she got all caught up, before it seemed so real. So she expressed this to S&M (JMO) and they said "don't worry Tilly, we have these pills we'll bring along with us. We can give them to him and he'll just fall asleep really soundly and sleep for hours and we can head out to begin our new lives together".

JMO she thought about her future life with her two male paramours who would be forever in her debt for their very freedom, and thought about her raging libido, and decided this was fair enough.

JMO Tilly was all set to carry through with this plan when she mistook her nervous excitement for a heart attack which caused a full-fledged panic attack which caused her to REALLY think it was a heart attack, and scared the bejezus out of Lyle and sent them to the hospital, where she turned off her cellphone intentionally and didn't touch it all night because every time she began to feel a little bit less like she was having a heart attack, she would think about them escaping without her being there and she'd panic again, so spent all night freaking out in the hospital (maybe even seeing or hearing about news of the escape on the hospital tv or from people talking in the halls, etc), only to have Lyle come check on her in the morning and hand her her phone upon discharge.

With him sitting there by her, she had to turn it on like she "normally" surely would, and that's when all the texts and things came flooding in saying that everyone wanted to get ahold of her because the men had escaped.

So she came up with the best lie for Lyle that she had - I didn't sleep with them - what's the most extreme way to swear to it so he'll definitely believe her in this all-important time in her life? swear on her son's life. Next important lie - I did whatever I did because I love you and didn't want to hurt you.

I really think this is that simple. JMO

All JMO.

 

[epiphany]

Erik says he was not in Honor Block, was in Upper H

Tillie was head of Tailor Shop, and David Sweat was the supervisor, a position right below her in Tailor Shop


David never admitted to Erik that he was having sex w/Tillie in the closet; he just laughed when the inmates ribbed him about it

 

[GGE]

And I'm beginning to wonder if she was the planned fall-guy...the middle aged woman, the civilian employee, the one who would be "fully cooperative" and reveal relatively petty details (in the grand scheme of things) which would in all likelihood result in a plea deal for her information and cooperation....maybe? I don't know. Maybe we'll never know.

SBM - I think they fully targeted her and Lyle as a couple because they were seen as the weakest link for a number of reasons, all of which come down to character and education JMO.

 

[Hatfield]

After reading this, I definitely think they administratively ruined the cabin area. Instead of sealing it off and brining in a single handler with well trained dogs, it seems they just let loose tons of people with no real human tracking skills.
Its no wonder they havent found the 2 convicts. Take a look at what they did.

Again, administrative issues only. Not the hard working officers doing what they were told.

"The person who went to the cabin found a jug of water and a jar of peanut butter on a table — and may have spotted a man running out the back, the Plattsburgh Press Republican reported.

Dozens of troopers headed out in a heavy rainstorm carrying maps and bottled water. Helicopters were flying over the area and new checkpoints were set up on the roads there."


http://nypost.com/2015/06/21/escaped-killers-tracked-across-ny-as-sightings-spread/

 

[trigger]

For the life of me, I cannot understand why dogs were not able to track them from that cabin to whereever they are now. Even footprint tracking by a good human tracker should have been able to accomplish tracking them.

They had an exact spot where they were known to have been and at most a day or so had passed. So why could they have not been tracked from that cabin?

Is somone on the tracking team demanding they use his own personally trained dogs and his dogs are more of a house dog that occasionally sniffs out an old shoe? LOL

What about a good man tracker for foot tracks and broken twigs?
We have all seen those shows where they track humans on horseback. So why are they not able to find them from that cabin?

Im beginning to think they are not utlizing good resources in this effort.
It seems the latest news we got was everyone was heading back to the command center.

I am not knocking the people doing the hard work on the ground as they are just taking orders and doing a fine hard job. I am questioning the administrative part of this serch effort at this point.

If the 911 call came in on Friday Franklin County police should have seen this evidence (prison underwear) inside that cabin and got the tracking dogs out there right away. Why they didn't is beyond me.

These two probably hid out there after they escaped and one slept while the other stood guard, imo. They aren't stupid to hang out there for several weeks. I think They found clothing and footwear etc and left. When I had a cabin in PA it was broken into several times, breaking the door and another time cut 4 screens. My neighbors said - you should just leave it open, so we did. We would go there in April and stock it with can food, soda and beer, my neighbor had a freezer in his shed and he let us use it to put frozen meats in it so the only thing we would really need is rolls and milk. We left clothes there and our boots etc so I bet that people in near by cabins did this as well.

 

[Greater Than]

@KClukey_TU: State Police have busted out a map for this presser. Shows how vast this search area is, mountainous #PrisonBreakNY http://t.co/dyEYbUe5Bs
[video=twitter;613735260589789184]https://twitter.com/kclukey_tu/status/613735260589789184[/video]

 

[Dr. Watson]

David Sweat killed a policeman, what was his penalty?
A television, a cooking stove, a refrigerator, Meat and baked goods from supermarkets, Work tools, drugs, a cell phone, a job as a shop foreman, Sex four times a week, his best friend in the cell next to him. Are we still all wondering about the prison system?

The guards were getting hours cut, prisons were closing, what better way to make a point than to help 2 murderers out of a max security prison. This looks like payback to me to the state.
No one had ever broken out before, they knew the problems this would bring to upper management, and the repercussions financially and otherwise this would bring to their community. To me, this looks like they didn't really help them, they just left the door open enough by "accident". Whoops!
Tilly was largely responsible, but CO'S working at Clinton had to be complaining about conditions every day and wondering why no one cared about their lives or their families. The government has just lost $25 million dollars in two weeks, what better way to make a point?

They might not be able to prove much with statements from guards and workers, but every sign here leads to someone turning a blind eye in that little village.

 

[GGE]

"District Attorney Andrew Wylie said Mitchell, who is charged with aiding the escape, would ask Palmer to bring frozen meat and baked goods to Matt and Sweat, who could receive items like that on the Honor Block where they lived.

But Palmer said he knew nothing about the small tools she had hidden in the food, Wylie said.

The items that Mitchell carried in were not checked through a metal detector."

http://www.pressrepublican.com/news...cle_2758483e-1a85-11e5-90eb-0f67165d3ecb.html

 

[GGE]

CNN is getting ready to show the press conference for today. I'll try to transcribe.

 

[cady]

Erik on CNN:

David Sweat was respected by inmates; they judged him by his crime: cop killer

He played chess w/Sweat and also was an artist, like David Sweat

IMO The paintings were done by MATT....is Sweat an artist, as well? JMO

 

[Hatfield]

I think it was just as simple as we've been led to believe.

Here's the JMO scenario from Tilly's point of view:

Tilly and Lyle are known to themselves and to S&M to drive to and from work together. Tilly knows she will be with Lyle at the time she's supposed to be driving the getaway car. So do S&M. This is why they were originally going to go back to Tilly's house (this is JMO remember) and kill Lyle there, then leave with Tilly and ride off into the sunset (it was night, whatever. )

Then Tilly got to feeling bad about this "kill Lyle" stuff she got all caught up, before it seemed so real. So she expressed this to S&M (JMO) and they said "don't worry Tilly, we have these pills we'll bring along with us. We can give them to him and he'll just fall asleep really soundly and sleep for hours and we can head out to begin our new lives together".

JMO she thought about her future life with her two male paramours who would be forever in her debt for their very freedom, and thought about her raging libido, and decided this was fair enough.

JMO Tilly was all set to carry through with this plan when she mistook her nervous excitement for a heart attack which caused a full-fledged panic attack which caused her to REALLY think it was a heart attack, and scared the bejezus out of Lyle and sent them to the hospital, where she turned off her cellphone intentionally and didn't touch it all night because every time she began to feel a little bit less like she was having a heart attack, she would think about them escaping without her being there and she'd panic again, so spent all night freaking out in the hospital (maybe even seeing or hearing about news of the escape on the hospital tv or from people talking in the halls, etc), only to have Lyle come check on her in the morning and hand her her phone upon discharge.

With him sitting there by her, she had to turn it on like she "normally" surely would, and that's when all the texts and things came flooding in saying that everyone wanted to get ahold of her because the men had escaped.

So she came up with the best lie for Lyle that she had - I didn't sleep with them - what's the most extreme way to swear to it so he'll definitely believe her in this all-important time in her life? swear on her son's life. Next important lie - I did whatever I did because I love you and didn't want to hurt you.

I really think this is that simple. JMO

All JMO.

I agree with most all of that. I also think Tilly was their escape plan for her to arrive with the car.

The thing to me that shows Tilly had no real concern except for herself was there is no indication she told Lyle about the plot to kill him until much later. That news came out much later and it shows she did not volunteer that information to Lyle initially.

Which means while she was laying comfortable in hospital bed, she knew those 2 inmates could be going to her house to kill her husband and get the car.
What a great loving caring wife.

Lyle needs to wake up and smell the rotten roses.

 

[Greater Than]

@wcax: LIVE @Noon. @nyspolice update public on escaped killers from #nyprisonbreak. STREAMING: http://t.co/0kRwHTca93 http://t.co/o5oGV91L4a
[video=twitter;613737117655662594]https://twitter.com/wcax/status/613737117655662594[/video]

 

[epiphany]

No confirmatory evidence that a shotgun is missing

Operating on belief that they are armed

Don't have definitive # of weapons [that were in cabin], bc a # of people cycle through cabin/s


Wow...not answering directly