NY - Search for escaped convicted killers, David Sweat & Richard Matt, Dannemora #5

[trigger]

"A group of correction officers — including a high-ranking guard at the Dannemora prison — own the upstate hunting camp where the two escaped killers hid out and left their DNA, sources said Monday."

http://nypost.com/2015/06/22/escaped-killers-dna-match-came-from-underwear/

Big thanks!! Off to read...

 

[bestill]

I read Pat Brown (retired FBI profiler) blog on tillie and her behavior. Not sure if i can post her site here. She discusses tillie's manipulation and psychopathic behaviors. Tillie was not a victim here

Found it, thanks for the tip!

 

[trigger]

I don't understand the idea of going to Canada. Is Canada some magic place? Do they have acquaintances in Canada who will help them?

I suppose one can live without money. Sleep in homeless shelters, food in soup kitchens. Eventually hook up with another Tillie type who will do anything for the love of these charmers.

But first they have to survive the wilderness. People are trying to imprint how the wilderness is, but I am not sure it is coming through. It is not like a city park.

There may be deer trails but they are not groomed. They would be filled with roots, fallen trees, low hanging branches to hit your head on and to scratch up your body.

Add insects and bone chilling rain. Nightmare! There is no relief.

How about snowmobile trails? I rode up there many years ago and there were a lot of these trails from what I remember.

 

[Hatfield]

There is still way more to this escape than Tillie getting a hacksaw blade to Matt 5 days before they busted out.

How were the cuts made in their cell walls which allowed them to get onto the catwalk where the power tools were allegedly were kept? This was more than a 5 day job IMO, especially since they could only go into the bowels of the prison to work for a few hours each night.

And who left those power tools unlocked and how did Matt and Sweat even know those tools were back there to begin with? That is, if Matt and Sweat were actually the ones who cut through the steam pipe...which I'm not entirely convinced it was them. It has been said it looks like a professional did it.

And how did they know the exact location of the steam pipe, where to saw from, what was on the other side of the brick wall they had to bust through, and the exact location to cut their exit from the steam pipe? Who gave them blueprints of the prison? Because it sure wasn't a lucky guess on their part.

There are more involved than Tillie and Palmer. MOO

You bring up some great points.

 

[human]

How about snowmobile trails? I rode up there many years ago and there were a lot of these trails from what I remember.

Hm. Those would be good. And do they have mountain biking trails or hiking trails?

I forgot about those options. There certainly are maps for those.

 

[Greater Than]

I read Pat Brown (retired FBI profiler) blog on tillie and her behavior. Not sure if i can post her site here. She discusses tillie's manipulation and psychopathic behaviors. Tillie was not a victim here

Absolutely. Palmer too. No victims, only volunteers.

 

[human]

Re cuts. I think most people that work have had cuts at their place of work. Do more with less. Produce Cadillac on a Yugo budget. Keep quiet because you are happy you have a job.

But you see how shortcuts have to be made in order to make things work.

Is it the head of Costco that goes and works every job in order to understand what needs to be done and what would help?

Too many arm chair quarterbacks that decide what needs to be done at the workplace without a clue as to how it shouod be done.

And there is friendship at a job. For some strange reason, people bought into Tillie's BS. On the surface, she looks harmless.

 

[pferrin]

Absolutely. Palmer too. No victims, only volunteers.

Absolutely.. Wondering if killers found trail maps or other useful items at the cabin

 

[Faithandhope]

Do you all think that they are still together or separate?

 

[pferrin]

Together

 

[Scio]

I knew I seen an article on the dannenore co somewhere. Anyway, the more this goes on the more and more involved it becomes. I believe there's a slight chance that these two are long gone right now that maybe the tip was set up even. I know I know that's an extreme stretch but, the DNA evidence only places them there within 48 hours of LE casing the cabin, right? With everything else going on here, including the unbelievable attention to detail and execution of this escape, the intimate knowledge of the prisons structures, the professional looking work on the cuts, and now a sighting at a cabin owned by co's who could have likely had contact with these men. It is far to many coincidences to be considered as such. And as far as Tillie goes, I'm on the fence about whether she stood them up or vice versa right now as both would make an equal amount of sense. Although if they intentionally stood her up then we would have very few choices then to assume this has almost all been apart of their plan in some respect.

 

[Dreamwanderer]

Do you all think that they are still together or separate?

If we are to believe reports that the DNA of both was found at the Cabin this past weekend (edit: I'm still not completely sure whether it was officially announced that one or both were there), then I believe they were together up until that point.

Both men were rats in prison (telling on other inmates), so I'm not sure they'd want to risk splitting apart and having the other guy caught.. cause then that guy may give away the rest of the plans for his own benefit (maybe 2 hours outside in the cage per day instead of 1 or whatever minor benefits the guy could get for himself now). So in part because of that and in part because of the cabin DNA it's JMO that I think they're still together.

 

[bestill]

By the DNA from the bloody sock LE knows who it belongs too, why not tell that?

 

[Momoffourboys]

Tillie... As a civilian employee had THIS much say?
She made this all possible? The meat. The adjoining cells. The tools.

Seriously?

 

[Faithandhope]

I think they are together still as well, but I thought it was weird that LE has been a little sketchy about the person possibly seen running away from the cabin. It seems like they are putting more stock in the DNA, but if there was a man actually seen, that's a pretty big deal, right? I was wondering if maybe they have actually caught one guy (whomever was at the cabin if they separated), and they are using him to get the other one, but saying things to media like "we think there was a guy maybe running away from the cabin" just to make it sound like they're nowhere near him.

 

[Faithandhope]

And my co-worker thinks it's mafia/gang/drug money behind this. I'm not sure he's basing that on too much, but does have some experience with peers in prison. He says he thinks that someone paid a bunch of CO to let these guys get away for whatever reason. I would say that might be far fetched that someone would pay so much money to get these two out, but I also didn't think there would be tools smuggled in frozen ground beef and talk of the escapees' endowments and of course Tillie.... so who knows!

 

[cady]

LE says that the DNA was "fresh" within 48 hours-but were they basing that on the sighting tip, or was the blood "fresh"? Just wondering, because that cabin could have been the FIRST place they had shelter 3 weeks ago. If Someone gave them a ride and dropped them off at the trail to the cabin, with a map or instructions, that person would be long gone from the area and may not have ever been gone long enough for anyone to wonder about it. The inmates could have been there with some provisions, for a few weeks, for all we know. When was the last time anyone checked into the camp or checked ON it? Does the maintenance guy check it every day? Just wondering. JMO

 

[Dreamwanderer]

I was wondering if maybe they have actually caught one guy (whomever was at the cabin if they separated), and they are using him to get the other one, but saying things to media like "we think there was a guy maybe running away from the cabin" just to make it sound like they're nowhere near him.

Or, like someone here joked as a possibility earlier, maybe one of the guys ate the other guy in the cabin. Probably not the case, but it would make an interesting story.

 

[jjenny]

And my co-worker thinks it's mafia/gang/drug money behind this. I'm not sure he's basing that on too much, but does have some experience with peers in prison. He says he thinks that someone paid a bunch of CO to let these guys get away for whatever reason. I would say that might be far fetched that someone would pay so much money to get these two out, but I also didn't think there would be tools smuggled in frozen ground beef and talk of the escapees' endowments and of course Tillie.... so who knows!

If someone paid a bunch of CO these two fugitives would have had a better option to get out of the area.

 

[Faithandhope]

Or, like someone here joked as a possibility earlier, maybe one of the guys ate the other guy in the cabin. Probably not the case, but it would make an interesting story.

hah! honestly with this whole debacle, who knows!