NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #3

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BBM: Not suggesting anyone in this case is involved in WP. Not sure where the "95%" comes from, but I would add "and their families." I was using it to suggest the range of emotions that can come up between those who leave and those they left behind. IOW, it's not just "longing" and "family feeling" and "lost friendship" that separate them, sometime it's more. I am not even imagining a precise scenario, just saying the feelings aren't always benign. I think it's natural to assume positive feelings motivate a party to want to reconnect with someone they lost, but there's also blame, vengeance, fear (e.g., "don't know where this person is and they know something about me that can hurt me"), and who knows what else. Depending on why the person left, even positive motivation to reconnect may not feel positive to them. I was just letting my imagination run to illustrate how little we know.

I have thought of this, too-we really don't know what is going on here. Let me do a little wild speculating (this isn't necessarily what I think is going on, though)-suppose there is an estate, left behind by the parents, for Sylvia and her brother. Sylvia has been gone for 38 years with no family contact that we know of-they share equally in the estate unless one is no longer alive. In that case, I assume the surviving sibling receives 100%, if inheritance goes like it typically does. Why, then, wouldn't he want to have her declared dead? She has been gone long enough, and this would be the most likely bad case scenario for finding someone who appears to be dead, but may be alive. There is no physical evidence, but to me, all signs point to Sylvia being dead, even though I realize that people have resurfaced years later.
 
Original post TBM:



This is WAY out there, but would SL show herself if the BF/F were on trial for her murder? Still just brainstorming ...

Interesting-I guess it depends on how she really felt about him at the time she bolted, and what kind of person she is now (of course, if she is actually dead, I would say she definitely would not!)
 
Original post TBM:

Did EL have BF/F followed? I thought she had just MMQC followed?

Both: Remember, we were told that's how "three versions" of the SL-BF/F fight came out. My take is one was family, one was LE, one was PI.
 
I have thought of this, too-we really don't know what is going on here. Let me do a little wild speculating (this isn't necessarily what I think is going on, though)-suppose there is an estate, left behind by the parents, for Sylvia and her brother. Sylvia has been gone for 38 years with no family contact that we know of-they share equally in the estate unless one is no longer alive. In that case, I assume the surviving sibling receives 100%, if inheritance goes like it typically does. Why, then, wouldn't he want to have her declared dead? She has been gone long enough, and this would be the most likely bad case scenario for finding someone who appears to be dead, but may be alive. There is no physical evidence, but to me, all signs point to Sylvia being dead, even though I realize that people have resurfaced years later.

Wow, what's that they always say about motive coming down to money and love/sex? I never thought of this but you raise a very interesting point. I imagine, if there is money in trust for SL, that he would be the manager of the trust. He would have to have had legal authority to dispose of the family home, for instance. But yes, the easy money (no pun intended) is on having SL declared legally dead. Unless LE blocked that because of what they know?

ETA: Of course, if the goal were to smoke SL out, the $$ motivation falls apart, though, doesn't it? I mean, if you knew that LE was blocking a legal death declaration, that might make you think she was alive, so smoking her out would make her able to claim it.

BBM: Yes, this is what all of this is.

And the more we come up with, the less I feel I know.
 
You always come up with something new! Did you call someone at the Cold Case Squad, or Det. Savage? Maybe her brother can request an age progression-if she is out there, it would help. I wonder how it works if you leave your family behind and just want to be left alone-is her brother entitled to have this age progression done, since she is missing? Would LE in NYC just stall him if they knew she didn't want any contact? Obviously, if LE knows she is alive and no contact is desired, they haven't told her brother, but I wonder if they tell her that he is looking. IMO, they don't-I am actually leaning far away from this possibility, but since there are a lot of counterintuitive gaps here, it's tough to tell.

The first number I called, 718-668-8000, referred me to the cold case squad, 718-667-2211, a female, last name Garris, gave me another number, 646-610-6910. I left a message the beginning of September and like I said I received no reply. That kind of thing seems to be the norm with police departments and most newspapers. My computer was having problems around the time that they ran the story on Sylvia, after I had things fixed I noticed I did get a return e-mail from the Staten Island Advance with a contact number. Wished I had seen this e-mail before the story was printed but I'm happy to say they did print the story on her, so it would seen not all newspaper's ignore your questions.
 
The first number I called, 718-668-8000, referred me to the cold case squad, 718-667-2211, a female, last name Garris, gave me another number, 646-610-6910. I left a message the beginning of September and like I said I received no reply. That kind of thing seems to be the norm with police departments and most newspapers. My computer was having problems around the time that they ran the story on Sylvia, after I had things fixed I noticed I did get a return e-mail from the Staten Island Advance with a contact number. Wished I had seen this e-mail before the story was printed but I'm happy to say they did print the story on her, so it would seen not all newspaper's ignore your questions.

BBM: Did everyone see the thank you note ASWDH posted on his profile page with regard to the article?
 
Quote Jmoose: "It wouldn't likely be relevant now because it's been 38 years, and hardly anyone is recognizable after that time-but if I was really hiding, I would be concerned."

I had wondered if an age progression photo was ever done on her, I even called and left a message but no one returned my call. I do think it's something the family has to request though. It would be interesting to see what she would look like now.

-Hope Sylvia's brother considers both an age progression photo and entering her dental charting in NamUs.

-Those tracking the unidentified on WS would have that much more to go on. I am in awe that people do this. There are so many unidentified mysteries.

Bbms: Yes, it would be interesting and potentially very helpful to see how she might look today, at 60.
 
For my clarification: Do we know whether or not Sylvia has been declared legally dead?
 
Her brother told me that the fight with the father wasn't the catalyst-I mean, it's his opinion, because nobody can see into someone else's head, but he lived in the house, and it's all we have. Maybe the father blamed himself and that is what tore the family apart? Could be, he was never the same after Sylvia disappeared? Maybe Eva also blamed him, but her brother knew things his parents didn't (we knew lots of stuff about our siblings and their associates that our parents didn't).

Did EL have BF/F followed? I thought she had just MMQC followed?

bbm: wonder why he feels that way - SL's best friend had never seen her flip her switch like that before. - Was Sylvia's fight with her Dad something that was inherent to their nature but had not been displayed publicly until the pool party? They were not speaking or apologizing - Were they still not speaking when she disappeared? I imagine that would be a heavy cross to bear for the rest of one's life.
 
bbm: wonder why he feels that way - SL's best friend had never seen her flip her switch like that before. - Was Sylvia's fight with her Dad something that was inherent to their nature but had not been displayed publicly until the pool party? They were not speaking or apologizing - Were they still not speaking when she disappeared? I imagine that would be a heavy cross to bear for the rest of one's life.

This is what he said to me, but he did not explain why this was so, or why he thought it was irrelevant, so this is sort of a "take it with a grain of salt" comment, I guess you'd say. I put it out there because it was all we had that came even close to evidence.
 
Original post TBM:



Both: Remember, we were told that's how "three versions" of the SL-BF/F fight came out. My take is one was family, one was LE, one was PI.

Yes you are right, we were told there were three different versions, so there is a strong possibility that LE did question him back then. It also would appear that he would have talked to the PI. Most people now, would say, "I don't have to tell you anything, you can talk to my lawyer".

If we could only find out who the PI was and where the ADA is now maybe that would help.

You know I would think that LE, if they actually did question him back then, would have checked out his story. You have, "we went to a movie", ok "do you have the ticket stub, can any employee, or even someone that either one of you know verify that you were there"? Then there is "she said she would take a bus." Easy to find if and what buses ran in that time frame. Then you have traffic jam. Back then, I'm sure that story would have been easy to check out. Why would there be a traffic jam? Car accident, maybe? Saturday night traffic? I think the mall had only been there two years. Not sure when the V. Bridge was finished, but would there have been traffic from New Jersey? Not sure but back then I'm sure it would have been something for LE to find out.

If I knew for sure that LE had questioned him then and he produced a ticket stub that would definitely help, because it seems like everything else that happened after that, fits into the time line.
 
Declared death in absentia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I would guess this is something a family member would have to request, depending on where you live, some states would consider you legally dead if you are missing after seven years.

This was really interesting, Skeet. Thanks.

Some of the subtler things they are saying can actually be quite significant. For example, the requirement that the disappearance be "without explanation" completely stymied my grandmother's quest to have my grandfather declared dead. Because a woman in my grandfather's firm disappeared at the same time he did, and someone asserted he had a relationship with her, the army said that "explained" his disappearance -- even though there was no concrete evidence to support that he ran off with her. Years later, when this woman returned with the actual guy she ran away with (i.e., not my grandfather), they still wouldn't declare my grandfather dead for their purposes, and to this day no one has been able to collect a special benefit he was due as a WWI veteran (worth roughly a few thousand dollars at the time).

In SL's case, could any reasonable justification anyone who knew her provided about possible reasons for why she might have fled keep her from being declared legally dead now? In her case, nothing about her circumstances (i.e., actual evidence) seems to justify death -- just time. Right?

And what would be the benefit of declaring SL dead? At her age, she would have had no assets her parents needed the legal right to dispose of. She may or may not have had a life insurance policy. If I were her mother, and had no compelling practical reason to declare her dead -- I don't think I could do it either! Just thinking about it makes me a little sick. I remember when Natalee Hollaway's mother resisted her ex-husband's efforts to do this, I completely understood why. I don't think I could ever close that door without knowing.

If SL's parents did indeed leave her property in 2007, after being missing for 32 years, this could have motivated the search in 2010. The efforts ASWDH listed way back when (see below) do seem to fulfill the U.S. requirement that a "d) diligent but unsuccessful search for that person and inquiry into his/her whereabouts" be conducted. I also wonder if her parents leaving SL part of their estate could also be used to justify NOT declaring her dead, as it showed they believed she was alive?

These things can be complicated ...

ASWDeerHunter, Thread 1, Post 806: "As far as the overall search has now proceeded, All mental hospitals in the U.S. were checked, passport office for a match, all airport, cruise ships, charters, any means of transport out of the U. S. were checked. All prisons, missing or unidentified bodies/coroner dept all states. To this present time all rocks have been turned."
 
Yes I agree, it would be something I would never be able to do unless I had evidence my love one had passed.
 
Nice to see three quests on this morning, it would be nice if you would join, you don't even have to post here if you don't feel comfortable, but you would be able to send any of us a private message.
 
Wow, what's that they always say about motive coming down to money and love/sex? I never thought of this but you raise a very interesting point. I imagine, if there is money in trust for SL, that he would be the manager of the trust. He would have to have had legal authority to dispose of the family home, for instance. But yes, the easy money (no pun intended) is on having SL declared legally dead. Unless LE blocked that because of what they know?

ETA: Of course, if the goal were to smoke SL out, the $$ motivation falls apart, though, doesn't it? I mean, if you knew that LE was blocking a legal death declaration, that might make you think she was alive, so smoking her out would make her able to claim it.

BBM: Yes, this is what all of this is.

And the more we come up with, the less I feel I know.

I just wanted to make sure there is no misunderstanding-I do not think there was any self serving reason on Sylvia's brother's part for searching for her-he wants her back because he loves her and she is the only one left from his family-thought I should clarify
 
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