NY - Twenty Fatality Traffic Crash, Schoharie County, 6 Oct 2018

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I have to wonder if the limos were kept in that condition on purpose?

Did the driver scream anything (to the passengers) right when the accident occurred?
 
Driver in fatal limo crash was ticketed in August for having improper license.

Driver in fatal limo crash was ticketed in August for having improper license

This is two reports of the same driver in the same vehicle within the past year. "Lisinicchia had a CDL-A license that allowed him to drive trucks but he lacked the additional permit needed to legally drive a vehicle capable of holding more than 15 passengers. The police record indicates that a supervising motor carrier investigator with DOT, Martin Duffy, went to the scene to assist and was made aware of the problems with the vehicle and the driver's credentials."

More info on the inspections, that the vehicle was driven more than 1,300 miles after failed inspection in March.
 
borndem said:
Where's the proof that the limo was road ready? Where's the proof that the driver was qualified and able to drive such a vehicle?
Something still creeps at me -- there were people at the front, middle and rear seating of the limo. Not one person survived. I am more and more thinking a carbon monoxide or other toxic leak -- but, apparently CO victims usually have a red pallor on the skin -- how long does it take for it to fade, and did LE say that such a pallor had been noted? I guess they wouldn't say if they had seen it.
Black box and autopsies are next.
Click to expand...

Or some other chemical release inside the limo?

I find it incredibly hard to believe that all 18 people inside died, no survivors at all. It just sounds suspicious.

MOO
 
So here is my experience with this intersection. In 2011, after Hurricane Irene came through and blew huge pine trees down onto our camp, we decided to buy an RV. It was an old RV but it was in excellent condition. We decided to go to a Music Festival out that way somewhere, I forget exactly where, but we took that route. Made the left off of Route 7 onto Route 30. Speed limit was posted at 50 mph and that is about what I was doing. Down that hill we started to go. Had to feather the brakes a little cause that old RV just wanted to keep picking up speed. Now we were pretty heavy with a full tank of water and a full gas tank. Did I mention that we didn't have power brakes? We got towards the bottom and I remember seeing another sign saying Speed Limit 50. Maybe another 100 yards or so was a sign saying stop ahead. By the time we saw this sign, you can first see the intersection, and doing right about the speed limit it was too late. Jamming on the brakes of this monster without power brakes, and all that weight, it just was not gonna stop in time for the intersection. Now I got it slowed way down, when we got to the Stop Sign we were doing maybe 10 mph or a little less but lucky no one was coming as I just drove through the stop sign and cranked a left and we continued, shaking, to our destination. Point being is maybe this is fine for a car, but for a heavy vehicle, this intersection and the signage and the visibility, just everything about it is super dangerous if you're not familiar with it. Now just a few years ago, they finally banned trucks from this route. Also about 10 years ago they changed the configuration of this intersection. It used to come out at a 45 degree angle, which seems better to me. On google maps satellite view, you can make out the old roadway curving left along the tree line. That seemed a much better setup than what you have now. I do believe this hill and this intersection played a major role in this crash.
 
alibrarian said:
Driver in fatal limo crash was ticketed in August for having improper license.

Driver in fatal limo crash was ticketed in August for having improper license

This is two reports of the same driver in the same vehicle within the past year. "Lisinicchia had a CDL-A license that allowed him to drive trucks but he lacked the additional permit needed to legally drive a vehicle capable of holding more than 15 passengers. The police record indicates that a supervising motor carrier investigator with DOT, Martin Duffy, went to the scene to assist and was made aware of the problems with the vehicle and the driver's credentials."

More info on the inspections, that the vehicle was driven more than 1,300 miles after failed inspection in March.
Click to expand...

Thank you for posting this very informative article!


OMG! Prestige Limo has violated just about every regulation associated with compliance and the law. Unbelievable! All responsible parties need to be locked up for life! The driver was no better, IMO. He knew the situation and was a willing part of it.
 
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Limo crash: Driver was a reliable employee, company says - CNN

According to the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration, the vehicle had the following three violations in a September 4 inspection that earned it an "out of service" designation, meaning it could not be on the road because it poses an imminent hazard:

• Operating a vehicle with seating in excess of the manufacturer's designed seating capacity
• No or defective bus emergency exits
• Inspection, repair and maintenance of parts and accessories
The vehicle had an additional seven violations that did not earn an "out of service" designation, including failure to correct defects previously noted.
 
jjenny said:
I never heard of carbon monoxide poisoning inside a normally driven car. It usually happens if car is left running in enclosed space, such as a garage, or when the car is stuck in something such as snow. It also seems not likely everybody would have died from carbon monoxide poisoning at the same time.
Click to expand...

It can happen -- I was just pondering this sheer horror of this horrible accident, and remembered reading about someone who lost her husband that way -- their old car had CO emission problems and it killed him. Several years ago, but it can happen.
----------------------------------------------
Avoid driving a car with holes in the floor or trunk, or with the trunk or liftgate open. Any holes in the underside of your vehicle may allow exhaust fumes to enter your vehicle. This is especially dangerous if the exhaust system has leaked, or you sit in traffic a lot
[...]
Never run your engine if the vehicle is partially covered in snow. If the tailpipe is partially obstructed, exhaust may be redirected underneath the vehicle and enter the passenger compartment.
[...]
This is also why some exhaust leaks can pose such a huge problem. If an exhaust system has a leak ahead of the catalytic converter, exhaust gases with much higher levels of carbon monoxide may seep into the passenger compartment.
Here's How to Avoid Carbon Monoxide Poisoning in Your Car


 
MaryG12 said:
Or some other chemical release inside the limo?

I find it incredibly hard to believe that all 18 people inside died, no survivors at all. It just sounds suspicious.

MOO
Click to expand...

In a high speed collision and possibly without seat belts, these people were projectiles. They hit the first car and barreled through into the woods. I would think the only person who knew what was coming was the driver. The occupants probably did not have time to brace themselves or do anything that might have cushioned the blow.

Years ago, I came upon a 1 car accident where the car hit a tree. I was the second person to reach the car. Both occupants were deceased on impact--- no blood, no gore, no outward sign of trauma. The driver had been belted but must have had his chest hit the steering wheel. The passenger was also belted but the engine had come inside the compartment and rested near his chest. The crash had to have been violent.

It is not hard for me to believe all 17 passengers died. There is no accident reports that say where the bodies were found.
 
cass523 said:
A video of the route taken by the ill fated limousine that crashed at Route 30A at Route 30.

Police explore whether negligence a factor in fatal Schoharie crash
Click to expand...
In the above link, Image 11 is notable, due what appears to be a crumpled parked car in the back of the lot (arrow added by me for clarity).
image-11-times-union.jpg

bbm
20 people killed in deadliest US transportation accident since 2009 - CNN
The 2001 Ford Excursion limo was traveling southwest on State Route 30 when it didn't stop at the intersection with State Route 30 A and collided with an SUV in a parking lot shortly before 2 p.m. Saturday in Schoharie, New York State Police First Deputy Superintendent Chris Fiore said.

All 18 people in the limo, including the driver, were killed, Fiore said Sunday. Two pedestrians near the unoccupied, parked 2015 Toyota Highlander also were killed, he said.
 
I had an Eddie Bauer Expedition, 1999, with the third seat. With it in place, three adults would have to be very short to sit back there. The second row could sit three adults, then bucket seats for driver and passenger. So a maximum of eight (8) passengers was the max for an Expedition.

Does NY have inspection stickers? My state use to and if your car failed inspection, they pulled the sticker off. In its place you got a noticeable red sticker good for ten days.

If this car had already failed in March and the corrections had not been made, what manner does the state have to keep this car off the road and especially since it is a commercial car?

It was an accident waiting to happen! What a coincidence that <modsnipped name calling> went back to Dubai right before it happened.
 
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alibrarian said:
Hello all,

I have an alert on this thread and have tried to keep up - sorry if this was already posted. A couple from *last* October provide their experience with this limo company:

Couple: 2017 wedding with limo company from Schoharie crash was 'nightmare'
Click to expand...
Excellent investigative work, alibrarian!! And disturbing. That, or those, company/companies apparently were splattered all over online limo advertisements, and this poor couple had a horrible beginning to part of their happy wedding events. But they survived.
This business venture should have been put out of business then, but they must have been pretty clever to change names, address, etc., etc. We see this with home pool builders, electricians, home repair work, etc. etc. I feel sure the good ones far outnumber the bad ones, but sometimes folks get one of the bad ones.
And those poor people who were in that limo and in the parking lot paid dearly for the greed of a bunch of thieves and incompetent people. And the memory and loss of the survivors of this horror will never go away. Let's hope that the investigators and LE will get to the bottom of this and shut it down and charge and convict those who caused it once and for all time.

And one more thing,

Welcome to Websleuths, alibrarian!! ​
 
The Expedition is a big SUV! Stopping it when towing a boat or car takes prethought as you can’t just make a sudden stop.

I would imagine stopping a stretched limo with 18 occupants in it is the same principle. When the driver realized the road ended and he had to turn left or right, it was too late. Even if he had good brakes, he would have been out in the traffic on the cross road, with his brakes slammed on, causing the passengers in the back to be slip sliding around.

I don’t see how with the failed inspections, the limo company is not going to be found at fault. The driver didn’t have the correct license, so this was an additional hazard. How was the company operating without liability insurance? All in all, this was a scum company, out to make money any way they could. They had no regard for people’s lives, following laws, doing things the correct way.JMO
 
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