OH - Annabelle Richardson, newborn, found in shallow grave, Carlisle, 7 May 2017 #2

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Not sure if others had seen this already, but
Skylar and her parents have had to deal with numerous protestors saying “abortions are legal, murder is not”. I guess these people had nothing better to do than wait around allll day to try and catch them for just the few quick moments they walk to their car.
 

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Not even confiding in a friend is sad. Hiding things from your parents makes sense but not having a single friend you trust to say "what if I'm pregnant" must be isolating. It might also make it seem less real. If you look pregnant and have a best friend they should ask you if you could be.
I agree: if that's truly how BSR was living her life during the past year or more that is super sad. Eating disorders can be extremely isolating so that may have contributed to her being so guarded. In her particular situation, it sounds like there was both food restricting and purging going on and that while some people were worried, some were also encouraging her to lose weight at certain times (her mother, mostly, otherwise why would BSR send her a text about weight loss?). In the majority of cases where both behaviors are going on, even if the restricting is not particularly hidden, the vomiting almost always is. It's pretty easy to convince yourself that cutting calories or skipping meals or whatever is fine and normal because probably lots of other people around you are doing it too (especially if your own mother is). But the minute you bend over the toilet and stick your finger down your throat, something is definitely wrong and you have a shameful secret to keep. Honestly, if BSR has had a few years of practice of keeping THAT secret, I bet that made her more likely to keep the shameful pregnancy a secret too, all the way up through whatever decisions she made about the baby itself. Like, how many times did she flush her own shame away and experience relief? Putting the baby in that shallow grave and covering her with dirt and walking away probably felt the same in certain ways, as horrible and sad (not to mention criminal) as that is.
 
Until I joined here, I never knew the 3 things to ask if confronted by police in such a situation. I guess her mother and father either didn't know, or they just weren't thinking, or they purposely did not tell her that prior to her going in.

#1- am I being detained?

#2- am I free to leave?

And if the first two are not no and yes, the next thing that should come out of my mouth would be

#3- I would like a lawyer.

ETA- I also would not be surprised if there would not be some jury nullification going on in the end for the higher charges with some of the jurors due to a juror considering the penalty of the higher charges, and morally not thinking they are Justified.

By way of example, I see so much here as to mitigation of the charges, which some of the jurors may bring into their verdict of guilty versus waiting for sentencing and mitigation later.


But we shall see what the evidence continues to be.
 
Didn't the prosecution offer her a plea deal last week and she/defense refused? Or am I mistaken?

Further testimony and evidence from electronic devices may show a different picture than the one I've developed in my brain.
 
And I noticed in both interviews, not once did she cry for her supposedly stillborn baby.

Not even after LE left the room.
Somewhere in all the videos she did have an outburst of inconsolable sobbing. I could barely understand what she was saying and she had to quickly gather herself. I dont believe it was acting. I'm working now but I'll hunt the exact point I noticed. It may not be with LE.
I recognize that outburst as deep grief and pain. I've seen that before and been through it myself. I took it at face value. I am not saying she isn't guilty of every charge but believed her outburst was genuine at the time I saw it. My opinion may be different once I watch it again, hope not.
 
I agree and she is an adult according to the law. Mommy and daddy can't sign the paper for her. That is why they are outside of the room.

If Skylar was underage then a parent would have been with her.

I don't see any manipulation in the police interview. She said she would talk to them without a Lawyer.

@iluvmua I am just expanding on your post.

moo moo jmo

I don't see any manipulation either.

They just wanted to get her side of what happened.
 
Somewhere in all the videos she did have an outburst of inconsolable sobbing. I could barely understand what she was saying and she had to quickly gather herself. I dont believe it was acting. I'm working now but I'll hunt the exact point I noticed. It may not be with LE.
I recognize that outburst as deep grief and pain. I've seen that before and been through it myself. I took it at face value. I am not saying she isn't guilty of every charge but believed her outburst was genuine at the time I saw it. My opinion may be different once I watch it again, hope not.

IMO, she is crying for herself only because she knows she is in big trouble.

The Court TV correspondent mentioned that she would not even look at the photos of her child.
 
Not even confiding in a friend is sad. Hiding things from your parents makes sense but not having a single friend you trust to say "what if I'm pregnant" must be isolating. It might also make it seem less real. If you look pregnant and have a best friend they should ask you if you could be.

If she would have told someone she would have had a support system.

Both her parents even said they would have supported her, so the I had a stillborn baby and I was so scared about what my parents might think is BS.

Jmo
 
I see a young lady who was more afraid of her mother than murder investigators. I empathize with that bc I was in foster care bc of an evil patronizing mum. I also fell pregnant at 19 with no support and I didn’t hide it or whatever else happened to Annabelle.
I can say I hate her mother and I feel like her father is beat down by her too. The “bag of popcorn” quote makes no sense to me, nor does her reaction. Why was everyone so troubled by a half eaten bag of popped corn?

I think her mother meant that Skylar was eating popcorn when LE wanted her to come down to the police station and now she can't finish it because she will not be coming home with them. Jmo
 
Do we know if a photo of Skylar's Diary has been shown?
 
If she would have told someone she would have had a support system.

Both her parents even said they would have supported her, so the I had a stillborn baby and I was so scared about what my parents might think is BS.

Jmo
These explanations might sound like BS excuses to many people, but BSR's mental illness, underdeveloped prefrontal cortex due to her age (and possibly malnutrition), and arguably neglectful parenting are still part of the equation. What she did is still wrong (whether she killed the baby, neglected it, or just hid its truly stillborn body), but I believe her state of mind is still something the jury must consider.
 
The questions were kind of leading. He needed to ask questions but sometimes it seemed like he didn't let her talk. Or he pushed and got answers like "I guess". It seemed like the female officer was there to make sure she wasn't ganged up on by two men. When asked about the baby moving she seemed unsure but he pressed her on it. She should have been feeling kicks and movements for a while maybe seen the movement under her skin. She sounded like a person who thinks they felt their baby's first movement but isn't sure it wasn't a gas bubble. He didn't let her give details in her own words many times.

Well that's because it was a criminal investigation. They upheld her fifth amendment rights. But this wasn't a counseling session where they're supposed to let her vent and give her the support she needs.

If she was a young man I have a feeling people wouldn't be as worried about the investigative techniques used to find out the truth.

They were also "manipulative" in getting Chris Watts to admit to killing at least his wife and telling where he put all the bodies. They rubbed his back, told him he was "doing great", and told him he was a good father.

If that's not allowed because someone is considered vulnerable than we need to do away with the criminal system all together. She was read her Miranda warning. She was not 15.

My attitude would be vastly different if threats were made, yelling, and clear refusal to let her leave.
 
Agree. But she’s immature and most people don’t know that. Even her father questioned if he needed to call an attorney and then didn’t?

Many people finding themselves in a situation like that, being questioned by the police in an interrogation room, frightened and alone try to do the right thing by answering questions and don’t even think to ask for an attorney.


JMO

But that doesn't matter. That's our system. The cops simply need to give the Miranda warning and heed it when Miranda rights are asserted. Beyond that they're allowed to question scared people, young people without parents present, immature people, etc. If they weren't no crimes would ever be solved.

That wasn't a therapy session. It was a homicide investigation.

Just sort of jumping off your post but the conversation generally is pretty much what I'm talking about really with cultural attitudes about young women who murder their newborns.

We see a scared young "girl" and many of us have the maternal instinct to want to hug her or protect her from the evil authorities trying to ensure there's justice.

IMO it's clear bias. I admit to having that bias myself but I feel like it should be examined and considered in relation to our opinions about what might have happened, who this young person is, whether she's lying, whether the authorities were on a "witch hunt", whether this young woman was denied her rights, and whether there should be consequences and what those should be.

I mean a baby was involved here. A real baby. And I believe a live one. I'm afraid that without significant consequences these things won't be deterred. I'm not personally talking about life in prison. But as a society I think we should at least be able to honestly examine our biases and also consider the complexity, her age and upbringing and circumstances, and emotional health in order to decide what consequences there should be.
 
Not sure if others had seen this already, but
Skylar and her parents have had to deal with numerous protestors saying “abortions are legal, murder is not”. I guess these people had nothing better to do than wait around allll day to try and catch them for just the few quick moments they walk to their car.

Those people are crazy IMO. This isn't a situation in which the justice system needs to be reminded to do its job. It's just harassment.

I mean I get protesting a rapist who does three months for dragging an unconscious woman behind a dumpster and raping her. Or the judge who sentenced him. But this young woman has been arrested, and is on trial for murder and there's no suggestion that the system is trying to let her get away with somehing because she's a blonde, upper-middle class kid.
 
Well that's because it was a criminal investigation. They upheld her fifth amendment rights. But this wasn't a counseling session where they're supposed to let her vent and give her the support she needs.

If she was a young man I have a feeling people wouldn't be as worried about the investigative techniques used to find out the truth.

They were also "manipulative" in getting Chris Watts to admit to killing at least his wife and telling where he put all the bodies. They rubbed his back, told him he was "doing great", and told him he was a good father.

If that's not allowed because someone is considered vulnerable than we need to do away with the criminal system all together. She was read her Miranda warning. She was not 15.

My attitude would be vastly different if threats were made, yelling, and clear refusal to let her leave.

She is a child, Chris Watts is a grown man. I don't think that is even a close comparison. I am more sympathetic to cases like this. It's not just feeling for what she went through, it's what cases like hers mean to other women that miscarry or have stillbirths. She gave birth alone in a bathroom with no medical care. No prenatal care. I'm surprised she didn't die. There are birth complications in even the most perfect pregnancies. You could do everything right and one day the fetal heartbeat vanishes or the umbilical cord strangles your child as it leaves the womb.
Chris Watts didn't ask for his parents. He was a husband and father and killed his family. Nothing died on the way out of his body.
 
I agree: if that's truly how BSR was living her life during the past year or more that is super sad. Eating disorders can be extremely isolating so that may have contributed to her being so guarded. In her particular situation, it sounds like there was both food restricting and purging going on and that while some people were worried, some were also encouraging her to lose weight at certain times (her mother, mostly, otherwise why would BSR send her a text about weight loss?). In the majority of cases where both behaviors are going on, even if the restricting is not particularly hidden, the vomiting almost always is. It's pretty easy to convince yourself that cutting calories or skipping meals or whatever is fine and normal because probably lots of other people around you are doing it too (especially if your own mother is). But the minute you bend over the toilet and stick your finger down your throat, something is definitely wrong and you have a shameful secret to keep. Honestly, if BSR has had a few years of practice of keeping THAT secret, I bet that made her more likely to keep the shameful pregnancy a secret too, all the way up through whatever decisions she made about the baby itself. Like, how many times did she flush her own shame away and experience relief? Putting the baby in that shallow grave and covering her with dirt and walking away probably felt the same in certain ways, as horrible and sad (not to mention criminal) as that is.

I agree. A lot was at play here to cause her to do what she did. Secrecy. Shame.

But it' seems very odd because it seems like she didn't work that hard to hide things. Like her "secrets" were actually family secrets and it was understood that you just don't talk about such things.

Her aunt described how she would clearly go to the bathroom and vomit up her food and come out smiling and talking normally. And no one confronted her. "Honey! Are you okay? What are you doing to yourself?"

Nope. Just accept it silently and don't address it. So dysfunctional. I mean I believe she knew that her family knew what she was doing and either she understood that it just wasn't something to TALK about but was accepted, or she was subtly asking for help by making it obvious and not getting any help. And what message that sends, I don't know.

Then comes the pregnancy. She was concealing it but also not. She apparently swam all summer in a bikini. She went to prom in a form fitting dress.

She instantly texted her mom a selfie of her post-pregnant body, hours after getting rid of her baby. I mean that's almost delusionally unaware. Unless it's not.

It gives me the impression that in that family appearance and weight were vastly more important than health, stability and even life. This gal either killed her infant and disposed of it like animal bones in a fire pit or allowed her baby to die for lack of care as she stared at it, or at the least, (which I don't believe), gave birth to a seeming stillborn, stared at the body for an hour while doing nothing and then tossed its naked body into a shallow pit.

Yet a mere hours later her main concern was showing her mom how overnight she shed pounds of stomach weight and would never allow that to happen again.

It seems to be all about the weight and her body and nothing about the baby or even the trauma she herself should have gone through if she gave birth to a still born and had to bury the body.

It's really quite disturbing and unreal.
 
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