OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 April 2006 - #2

[Brainy]

Satch, the research organization was Battelle.


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[neesaki]

I hear what all of you have to say, I totally do. That said, I do have some respect for this detective who, coupled with his experience, gut instincts and knowledge of this case, must know more than anyone of us. I'm not saying he's all knowing by any means, but I will try to defer to him until we learn more. Not to mention that there's no evidence of any foul play or suicide. That said, I'm still open to any theories as there appears to be no evidence of anything that we know of. As has been pointed out more than once, I also believe that Clint holds the key, he's the one who very possibly knows something that hasn't been reported.

 

[Brainy]

I hear what all of you have to say, I totally do. That said, I do have some respect for this detective who, coupled with his experience, gut instincts and knowledge of this case, must know more than anyone of us. I'm not saying he's all knowing by any means, but I will try to defer to him until we learn more. Not to mention that there's no evidence of any foul play or suicide. That said, I'm still open to any theories as there appears to be no evidence of anything that we know of. As has been pointed out more than once, I also believe that Clint holds the key, he's the one who very possibly knows something that hasn't been reported.

Neesaki, I also respect what the detectives have to say, although the idea (Brian willing leaving) is not held by all of them (I think one of them mentioned this a while back), and yes, as a detective they should consider all the possibilities given the lack of evidence and information. However, just because there is no evidence doesn't mean there wasn't any foul play and vice versa. Like I said, I respect what they have got to say but I wouldn't go as far as to just arbitrarily trusting their instinct. People in this field are like all people and make mistakes all the time as it is evidenced by many cases that go cold for years, evidence getting mishandled, things not properly looked at, etc, etc. From my perspective, it is naive to just believe what the LE has to say without knowing what they base their information on. Until then, unless we know more, Brian is still a missing person whether the detective has the right feeling about it or not.

There are just too many unanswered questions, major gaps that we have talked about (here) many times. We don't know to what extent the surveillance was investigated. We don't know if Brian's apartment/car was ever searched or thoroughly looked at. We also don't know why Clint was just let go of. And numerous other things that the LE isn't just aware, or isn't sharing with the public.


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[Brainy]

The only problem with that theory is that I don't think it explains Clint's "Off-putting" behavior. A question I have.Is that 1:55am time with Brian on the video and than Clint supposedly calling him at 2:10am. Is that Clint establishing this time-frame, or has this time-frame been established by other sources whom in my view are more trustworthy? How do we go from a 15-minute time interval to never, ever being seen again?

And if Clint is innocent, hiding nothing, and knows nothing about what happened to Brian. why does he need a layer for this case?

Satch

Satch, I also thought that... What if Clint was drunk and didn't remember much details from that night and that's why he refused to participate or take a polygraph? If his answer was vague or "I don't know", that could potentially jeopardize him and he would be looked at even more. Perhaps he realized that being drunk that night would make the cops believe he did something he didn't remember, thus making him an unreliable witness. Another point.... What if he was drunk and truly didn't know and was afraid of learning what he could have done or said to Brian?

This is an interesting line of thought that hasn't been mentioned before. Curious to consider.


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[Brainy]

Satch, I also thought that... What if Clint was drunk and didn't remember much details from that night and that's why he refused to participate or take a polygraph? If his answer was vague or "I don't know", that could potentially jeopardize him and he would be looked at even more. Perhaps he realized that being drunk that night would make the cops believe he did something he didn't remember, thus making him an unreliable witness. Another point.... What if he was drunk and truly didn't know and was afraid of learning what he could have done or said to Brian?

This is an interesting line of thought that hasn't been mentioned before. Curious to consider.


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To follow this train of thought... I watched the video segment again where Clint states, "he was doing his usual thing". All of his statements sound extremely vague like he trying to provide something, as long as that something isn't "I don't know" or "I don't remember". Also, pay attention how consistent he is in keeping information vague, it's even more noticeable as his audience are folks who didn't know Brian and wouldn't know what "his usual thing" was. Given that his audience is the general public, he speaks in terms that only generate more questions for further understanding of the situation.

Also, think what would happen if Clint truly didn't remember the events of that night. If he came forward with no memory of that night, that would make him look guilty by default. Still, if he had no memory of the events, that would not necessarily make him stop caring about his friend like his actions after Brian's disappearance demonstrated.

He would, however, try to remove himself from it all if he sensed something bad had happened between him and Brian, and intentionally evaded LE for further details because he knew that he could be tied to it all.

It all comes down to... Whatever Clint hid, he did so intentionally. Not sharing anything is not lying but hiding the truth has a stinging bite and a bitter flavor.

 

[Satch]

He would, however, try to remove himself from it all if he sensed something bad had happened between him and Brian, and intentionally evaded LE for further details because he knew that he could be tied to it all.

It all comes down to... Whatever Clint hid, he did so intentionally. Not sharing anything is not lying but hiding the truth has a stinging bite and a bitter flavor.

Exactly,

You can tell that Clint's vague answers are intentional. A middle ground for people asking what happened. "I don't know" or "I don't remember" or "Pleading the Fifth" could male him look guilty over time. By distancing himself with very vague and apathetic responses, he is able to maintain that control over what he likely knows. Unfortunately, he will probably take that information to his grave.

You find out what Clint knows, you possibly solve this case, or at the very least get a huge clue as to where Brian might have gone, or what happened.. Clint able to do things like going back to the apartment waiting six hours, if indeed he did that at all. It allows him to maintain the sense of control. "I was waiting for Brian to come home." Sure, casuals might believe that. But Clint sure is not going to say "I was cleaning up incriminating evidence against me."

I think there is one thing about Clint that is truthful. He doesn't want to say what he knows or did concerning Brian, because he doesn't want his medical career ruined. I think that statement goes from second hand knowing something to doing something. Cover ups like this often involve death or drug deals gone bad resulting in death, or alcohol resulting in violence and probable death.

If Clint wasn't being so evasive and didn't lawyer up, I would be more inclined to think Brian just took off undetected, slipped into the night, with no desire to ever be found, dead or alive. But if Clint knows that Brian just took off or Brian committed suicide, why would he not share this to bring closure to this case? Unless Brian told Clint what he was going to do that night and swore Clint to secrecy?

There's too much undetection, uncertainty in this case, and off the wall behavior from Clint to suggest that Brian ran away.

Satch

 

[Brainy]

Exactly,

You can tell that Clint's vague answers are intentional. A middle ground for people asking what happened. "I don't know" or "I don't remember" or "Pleading the Fifth" could male him look guilty over time. By distancing himself with very vague and apathetic responses, he is able to maintain that control over what he likely knows. Unfortunately, he will probably take that information to his grave.

You find out what Clint knows, you possibly solve this case, or at the very least get a huge clue as to where Brian might have gone, or what happened.. Clint able to do things like going back to the apartment waiting six hours, if indeed he did that at all. It allows him to maintain the sense of control. "I was waiting for Brian to come home." Sure, casuals might believe that. But Clint sure is not going to say "I was cleaning up incriminating evidence against me."

I think there is one thing about Clint that is truthful. He doesn't want to say what he knows or did concerning Brian, because he doesn't want his medical career ruined. I think that statement goes from second hand knowing something to doing something. Cover ups like this often involve death or drug deals gone bad resulting in death, or alcohol resulting in violence and probable death.

If Clint wasn't being so evasive and didn't lawyer up, I would be more inclined to think Brian just took off undetected, slipped into the night, with no desire to ever be found, dead or alive. But if Clint knows that Brian just took off or Brian committed suicide, why would he not share this to bring closure to this case? Unless Brian told Clint what he was going to do that night and swore Clint to secrecy?

There's too much undetection, uncertainty in this case, and off the wall behavior from Clint to suggest that Brian ran away.

Satch

Of course he didn't want his career ruined. You are talking about someone who really cares about his status, how others see him, etc.

Yes, you nailed it there. By distancing himself, he has established a certain level of control through which he is able to navigate his own situation better and change his position when necessary (evading questions, etc).

Again, we come to the same question list, why disappear at 2 am from the bar? There is just isn't an explanation to this.

If he wanted to just go away, why care if he is seen on camera or not (if Brian wanted to AND avoid the camera)? What is the significance of this? Why not to wake up on Saturday morning and walk out from your apartment with no trouble? Also, why would be disappear from just close proximity from Clint, if he had asked him not to tell anyone about his planned disappearance? In this situation, Brian would surely be aware that Clint would be questioned and possibly suspected for any wrongdoing being one of the last people to see him. If he did indeed disappear willing from the bar... For such a witty and clever plan implicating your friend you just confided in doesn't sound so witty or clever.

Also, Clint's attorney Rosenberg once mentioned that the only person bringing pain to his family is Brian. He earlier stated that after talking to the detective he believed Brian was alive somewhere. What? Shifting blame is not the best strategy. If Brian told Clint about the secret of disappearance, I don't think his best buddy and his attorney would make the statements. Also, blaming it all on Brian is an easy solution. All the burden falls onto Brian while Clint chooses to distance himself. How very convenient.


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[Brainy]

By the way, I was listening to a podcast earlier today about Brian's disappearance. Apparently, the two girls that he is seen talking to (the last camera footage of Brian at about 0155) were acquaintances of his as well (not just Clint's). Their names are Brightan Zatko and Amber Ruic.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Who benefits from the idea that Brian disappeared of his own volition, without car or money? And never again made contact with his parents?

 

[Brainy]

Who benefits from the idea that Brian disappeared of his own volition, without car or money? And never again made contact with his parents?

You mean.. financially? No one. Brian was never declared dead. Unless he had a will, but then again, he is missing and has not been declared dead to my knowledge.

 

[neesaki]

Who benefits from the idea that Brian disappeared of his own volition, without car or money? And never again made contact with his parents?

Good question, possibly Clint as it takes the focus off of him. I do find it a little interesting that Clint left in May and moved to Texas so soon after Brian disappeared in April. Though it is possible he already had previous plans to do so, Idk.
What's really bothered me is I've never heard of him showing any concern for Brian being missing, and from what I've read I've never found anything indicating that he even helped search for him. Maybe because he knows it would be a waste of time?

 

[Satch]

Good question, possibly Clint as it takes the focus off of him. I do find it a little interesting that Clint left in May and moved to Texas so soon after Brian disappeared in April. Though it is possible he already had previous plans to do so, Idk.
What's really bothered me is I've never heard of him showing any concern for Brian being missing, and from what I've read I've never found anything indicating that he even helped search for him. Maybe because he knows it would be a waste of time?

Or Clint knows what happened, and is determined to take the secret of what happened to Brian Shaffer to his grave.

Satch

 

[neesaki]

Or Clint knows what happened, and is determined to take the secret of what happened to Brian Shaffer to his grave.

Satch

Yes, this too. Whatever happened had to have happened quickly if someone else turned Brian's phone off. It's just hard for me to fathom anything actually happening inside the bar. So, how did he leave the bar, was it alone or with someone ? And why not exit out the front door ? Here I am again going in circles. :sheesh:

 

[dotr]

This is unrelated, maybe even O/T, but when i read this story about what this medical student went through, and how his family saw nothing in his behavior to indicate he would commit suicide, Brian came to mind. Fwiw, speculation.
https://www.thestar.com/news/canada...-plight-of-canadian-medical-school-grads.html

 

[Brainy]

I really don't think his phone being turned off is that singificant. Battery could have died, he could have turned it off earlier for whatever reason. The window of disappearance is very small, so it's really hard to see something happening inside the bar like some of you pointed out earlier. But then again, it's a game of odds. Given that there is absolutely no evidence to arrive at any conclusion, we are left with very, very little info. Personally, I would rule out suicide. Whatever happened was either an accident or foul play, giving more emphasis on foul play considering that his body was never recovered and the very narrow time gap between when he was last seen and when he was no longer seen. There is also a small possibility that he left on his own, but I believe it's a stretch considering the circumstances of his disappearance.

I don't know. One would think that by now there would be at least some leads or some sort of evidence to give certain direction to the investigation. I find it odd that nothing has turned up in more than 11 years.



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[Brainy]

Good question, possibly Clint as it takes the focus off of him. I do find it a little interesting that Clint left in May and moved to Texas so soon after Brian disappeared in April. Though it is possible he already had previous plans to do so, Idk.
What's really bothered me is I've never heard of him showing any concern for Brian being missing, and from what I've read I've never found anything indicating that he even helped search for him. Maybe because he knows it would be a waste of time?

You are right. He has never helped the search, but if he knew that his actions make him look fishy, why not to participate in search efforts anyway? I mean, he was clever enough to get a lawyer early on, why not to at least pretend that he cares?

Yes, his lack of concern is concerning? But why does he not show concern? Is it because he didn't care about Brian in the first place? I am not sure how Clint is tied to it all, he does have something to hide, small or big, important or not, it could be the key to bringing closure.

It would be interesting to find out what the detectives think of Clint and his actions. Their lack of pressure on Clint sends mixed messages, and it gives me the impression that they might have never considered Clint a suspect. If they wanted him to talk, they would open an investigation and perhaps use the power of subpoena to make him talk?


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[JaimeSommers]

Count me among those who feel Brian left the same way he came in, but wasn't detected by cameras. Also count me in on the theory that Clint knows more than he's said. IMO, whoever did this is keeping their mouths shut because they know (almost) everyone seems to think Brian disappeared *inside* the club. Really hope this one gets solved someday. Maybe they'll build a new apartment complex in Columbus and unearth bones. Anything to give the family answers.

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[Brainy]

Count me among those who feel Brian left the same way he came in, but wasn't detected by cameras. Also count me in on the theory that Clint knows more than he's said. IMO, whoever did this is keeping their mouths shut because they know (almost) everyone seems to think Brian disappeared *inside* the club. Really hope this one gets solved someday. Maybe they'll build a new apartment complex in Columbus and unearth bones. Anything to give the family answers.

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If Brian died anywhere near the bar and if his body was disposed of nearby, it would have been found by now. I think whatever happened did happen nearby but then he was transported elsewhere dead/alive. Without anyone coming forward with more info to shine light into this, there is very little chance of finding out what happened.


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[JaimeSommers]

If Brian died anywhere near the bar and if his body was disposed of nearby, it would have been found by now. I think whatever happened did happen nearby but then he was transported elsewhere dead/alive. Without anyone coming forward with more info to shine light into this, there is very little chance of finding out what happened.


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Never said "near the bar," I said "in Columbus." 😊

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[Brainy]

Never said "near the bar," I said "in Columbus." [emoji4]

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Yes, but if it was in the city he would be found. It's pretty hard to hide a body, where are you gonna hide a body, especially in the city?
Considering that you're talking about a grown man and a very narrow time window. I believe he was taken somewhere. If he was killed, there is no way that his remains are in Columbus.