OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 April 2006 - #2

[neesaki]

Please weigh in, new members to Brian's thread. We need all the help we can get. :wave:

 

[Brainy]

Perhaps, but I would have thought that was something that LE would have done early on. I just think it's a little weird, if they didn't, I actually think it's rather negligent on their part. JMO

Neesaki,

I agree about the negligence part... I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't investigate other elements that could be vital to this case. Who knows... it isn't even known if the CCTV cameras around the bar were checked, it's all just a frustrating speculation... sigh....

 

[Brainy]

I am also beginning to think that they saw this as if Brian had decided to take off without letting anyone know. This could have been a reason why they wouldn't ask for a blood sample from a sibling or a parent. Perhaps they thought he left on his own accord and will be found alive sooner or later.

 

[Brainy]

So, I'm just going to throw my opinion on Clint into the thread. I never got a bad vibe from him except for the fact that he has me for immunity, but that could just be a preventative measure for him.

Think about it...wrongful convictions happen fairly frequently. This is a pretty big case, and everybody who knows about this case wants some sort of closure. Clint could have been easily used as a scapegoat even if he had nothing to do with Brian's disappearance. He's already being scapegoated to a degree in this thread.

Personally, I think Clint asked for immunity on the advice of his lawyer. A lawyer's duty is to protect their client. Clint asking for immunity was the best way for Clint to be protected regardless of his involvement in the case.

In cases of foul play, the assailant is often times somebody who is close to the victim. If somebody looked at this case without looking at the nitty gritty details, the people who were close to Brian were his father, his brother, Alexis, and Clint. Brian's father, his brother, and Clint saw him on the night of his disappearance while Alexis was visiting her parents or grandparents or something, so she has an alibi. Nobody is going to blame his dad or brother because they seem like a tight-knit family in mourning. That leaves Clint.

I'm not saying that we should exclude Clint as a person of interest, but we should give him the benefit of the doubt. Obviously, he looks a little fishy since he was never 100% cooperative. But some people are selfish. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't prosecute Clint yet. He is innocent until proven guilty, and speculation is not proof.

What you say is reasonable and makes sense, however... even if Clint was being careful not to be wrongfully accused of anything, why did he distance himself so much from Brian's family and efforts to find him? He could have had a lawyer, consulted them about the matter but continue helping with the search, working with the police to figure out what happened to his friend. There isn't one thing only about this guy that appears fishy. There is a collection of elements about his and his behaviors that seem very suspicious. Had he acted and behaved differently, there wouldn't be so much suspicion about him and his possible involvement in Brian's disappearance.

 

[neesaki]

Neesaki,

I agree about the negligence part... I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't investigate other elements that could be vital to this case. Who knows... it isn't even known if the CCTV cameras around the bar were checked, it's all just a frustrating speculation... sigh....

I also wonder about his phone calls, texts and contacts, as well as his computer and emails. Hopefully LE checked that and investigated thoroughly. And now there is no DNA sample. Indeed frustrating.

 

[Lavinia]

Hi all,

This is my first time commenting on Brian's thread but I have been familiar with it for some time having been from Ohio and visiting friends at OSU many times around 2007-2011.

Along with this case, I am also very interested in the cases of: Maura Murray, Jennifer Kesse and David Sneddon. Even if you are not overly familiar with these cases, the basic information and plot is enough to come to a few conclusions. These four victims are close in age, college educated and seem to have above average relationships with their families. Maura Murray may be the exception to that in regards to family relations. Also, though Brian's mother had recently passed away before his own disappearance, he remained close to his brother and father. All four cases are identical in that no bodies have been located.

We always ask "what do people know?" With Jennifer's case there is at least one person who has some type of information. We know this because her car was driven and parked by an unknown person. This person may not have been the killer but obviously there is another person involved. A person was driving another person's car...why? Someone has not come forth with that answer.

Looking into situations such as suicide, running away/creating a new identity, or succumbing to the elements - there may not be a single soul who has information. This could be the case for Maura, Brian and David. Side note, I think there are people who know what happened to David and if any of these four are alive, I believe it is David. So this narrows us down to two cases: Brian and Maura. I do not believe either Brian or Maura had the intention to commit suicide. I believe Maura needed to get away but I do not believe her plan was to kill herself. It is my belief that Maura did leave her car at the scene of the accident to avoid a DUI and never got out of the woods. I am saying that I do not think there is a single person who knows about what happened once she got out of that car except Maura herself.

Onto Brian, I do not think Brian committed suicide or got lost in the outdoors never to be seen again. I also do not think he went away to create a new identity and to this day has never told any other person (in his "past" life or "new" life) the real deal. In this, Brian's case is most similar to Jennifer Kesse's in that someone knows something. Something happened to these two people and there was either one person who killed (intentionally or unintentionally), disposed of the body/covered up the crime and to this day has not spoken. There could be multiple people that have information - maybe there is one killer who had two people help with the cover up and each person told someone about the crime...there are people who know information but have chosen not to come forward for whatever reason.

I guess my point being, I do believe Brian was killed - intentionally or unintentionally - and I do believe it occurred the night/early morning of when he was last seen. So going on that...Clint Florence "what do you know?" He may not know anything. Brian may have been killed by a person or a group of people that have been completely looked over or never even looked at at all. It may not be the band, or Ugly Tuna staff or Clint/Meredith. Clint being in Brian's apartment may have nothing to do with any of this. "Talking to the band" may have nothing to do with any of this.

I have really investigated this case and thought a lot about it. I was fully open to any and all opinions, facts and speculations but this is what I have concluded from all information available. I am going to try to begin researching this case as not so much of a "what happened" but "who/how/why/where".
--Who killed Brian/was there when he died?
--How did he die? (drug OD, alcohol poisoning, physical fight, accidental fall).
--Why ties into "how"
--Where? (where did he go after the bar, where did the final incident take place?)
--Where #2? Where is he so he can be brought back to this family and even if the case isn't "solved", there will be closure to some degree.

If any new and legitimate information is released that questions my conclusion, I will absolutely reconsider but right now this is my belief. To those who share the same belief as I do, this may be really obvious. Writing this out logically has helped me confirm my belief and list the questions we want/need answered to eventually find Brian.

 

[neesaki]

Hi all,

This is my first time commenting on Brian's thread but I have been familiar with it for some time having been from Ohio and visiting friends at OSU many times around 2007-2011.

Along with this case, I am also very interested in the cases of: Maura Murray, Jennifer Kesse and David Sneddon. Even if you are not overly familiar with these cases, the basic information and plot is enough to come to a few conclusions. These four victims are close in age, college educated and seem to have above average relationships with their families. Maura Murray may be the exception to that in regards to family relations. Also, though Brian's mother had recently passed away before his own disappearance, he remained close to his brother and father. All four cases are identical in that no bodies have been located.

We always ask "what do people know?" With Jennifer's case there is at least one person who has some type of information. We know this because her car was driven and parked by an unknown person. This person may not have been the killer but obviously there is another person involved. A person was driving another person's car...why? Someone has not come forth with that answer.

Looking into situations such as suicide, running away/creating a new identity, or succumbing to the elements - there may not be a single soul who has information. This could be the case for Maura, Brian and David. Side note, I think there are people who know what happened to David and if any of these four are alive, I believe it is David. So this narrows us down to two cases: Brian and Maura. I do not believe either Brian or Maura had the intention to commit suicide. I believe Maura needed to get away but I do not believe her plan was to kill herself. It is my belief that Maura did leave her car at the scene of the accident to avoid a DUI and never got out of the woods. I am saying that I do not think there is a single person who knows about what happened once she got out of that car except Maura herself.

Onto Brian, I do not think Brian committed suicide or got lost in the outdoors never to be seen again. I also do not think he went away to create a new identity and to this day has never told any other person (in his "past" life or "new" life) the real deal. In this, Brian's case is most similar to Jennifer Kesse's in that someone knows something. Something happened to these two people and there was either one person who killed (intentionally or unintentionally), disposed of the body/covered up the crime and to this day has not spoken. There could be multiple people that have information - maybe there is one killer who had two people help with the cover up and each person told someone about the crime...there are people who know information but have chosen not to come forward for whatever reason.

I guess my point being, I do believe Brian was killed - intentionally or unintentionally - and I do believe it occurred the night/early morning of when he was last seen. So going on that...Clint Florence "what do you know?" He may not know anything. Brian may have been killed by a person or a group of people that have been completely looked over or never even looked at at all. It may not be the band, or Ugly Tuna staff or Clint/Meredith. Clint being in Brian's apartment may have nothing to do with any of this. "Talking to the band" may have nothing to do with any of this.

I have really investigated this case and thought a lot about it. I was fully open to any and all opinions, facts and speculations but this is what I have concluded from all information available. I am going to try to begin researching this case as not so much of a "what happened" but "who/how/why/where".
--Who killed Brian/was there when he died?
--How did he die? (drug OD, alcohol poisoning, physical fight, accidental fall).
--Why ties into "how"
--Where? (where did he go after the bar, where did the final incident take place?)
--Where #2? Where is he so he can be brought back to this family and even if the case isn't "solved", there will be closure to some degree.

If any new and legitimate information is released that questions my conclusion, I will absolutely reconsider but right now this is my belief. To those who share the same belief as I do, this may be really obvious. Writing this out logically has helped me confirm my belief and list the questions we want/need answered to eventually find Brian.

Thanks for the thoughtful post, so glad to have you here to join in the discussion. I have totally gone back and forth as to what I believe happened to Brian, but have more or less come to the point you are at, that something happened in the early morning hours to cause his death. It is still a mystery to me how he got out of the bar without being seen on camera, but there obviously had to be a way because that's exactly what happened.

One thing I don't really believe is that he is in the walls of the bar, or buried in concrete at the construction site. I'm not saying it's impossible, I just don't think that's where he is.

I do think it's very possible he left with someone, or met up with someone after leaving. That's why I'm curious about his cell phone activity that night he disappeared. Maybe he didn't want Clint and Meredith seeing him leave because he didn't want them to know who he was leaving with, or to ask any questions about where he was going, so he slipped out one of the other exits to lose them. Also his phone immediately going to voice mail seems to indicate, to me at least, that he turned his phone off, another sign he wanted his space and didn't want to have to explain himself to Clint and Meredith. I still wonder about the two girls he was talking to outside the bar. I know it's considered rumor, but I read somewhere that one of the girls had lied to police about something. The problem is I don't recall what it was she lied about, or even where I read it. I'll have to think a bit on that. :thinking: Anyway, welcome to the thread, Lavinia! :welcome:

 

[neesaki]

Hi all,

This is my first time commenting on Brian's thread but I have been familiar with it for some time having been from Ohio and visiting friends at OSU many times around 2007-2011.

Along with this case, I am also very interested in the cases of: Maura Murray, Jennifer Kesse and David Sneddon. Even if you are not overly familiar with these cases, the basic information and plot is enough to come to a few conclusions. These four victims are close in age, college educated and seem to have above average relationships with their families. Maura Murray may be the exception to that in regards to family relations. Also, though Brian's mother had recently passed away before his own disappearance, he remained close to his brother and father. All four cases are identical in that no bodies have been located.

We always ask "what do people know?" With Jennifer's case there is at least one person who has some type of information. We know this because her car was driven and parked by an unknown person. This person may not have been the killer but obviously there is another person involved. A person was driving another person's car...why? Someone has not come forth with that answer.

Looking into situations such as suicide, running away/creating a new identity, or succumbing to the elements - there may not be a single soul who has information. This could be the case for Maura, Brian and David. Side note, I think there are people who know what happened to David and if any of these four are alive, I believe it is David. So this narrows us down to two cases: Brian and Maura. I do not believe either Brian or Maura had the intention to commit suicide. I believe Maura needed to get away but I do not believe her plan was to kill herself. It is my belief that Maura did leave her car at the scene of the accident to avoid a DUI and never got out of the woods. I am saying that I do not think there is a single person who knows about what happened once she got out of that car except Maura herself.

Onto Brian, I do not think Brian committed suicide or got lost in the outdoors never to be seen again. I also do not think he went away to create a new identity and to this day has never told any other person (in his "past" life or "new" life) the real deal. In this, Brian's case is most similar to Jennifer Kesse's in that someone knows something. Something happened to these two people and there was either one person who killed (intentionally or unintentionally), disposed of the body/covered up the crime and to this day has not spoken. There could be multiple people that have information - maybe there is one killer who had two people help with the cover up and each person told someone about the crime...there are people who know information but have chosen not to come forward for whatever reason.

I guess my point being, I do believe Brian was killed - intentionally or unintentionally - and I do believe it occurred the night/early morning of when he was last seen. So going on that...Clint Florence "what do you know?" He may not know anything. Brian may have been killed by a person or a group of people that have been completely looked over or never even looked at at all. It may not be the band, or Ugly Tuna staff or Clint/Meredith. Clint being in Brian's apartment may have nothing to do with any of this. "Talking to the band" may have nothing to do with any of this.

I have really investigated this case and thought a lot about it. I was fully open to any and all opinions, facts and speculations but this is what I have concluded from all information available. I am going to try to begin researching this case as not so much of a "what happened" but "who/how/why/where".
--Who killed Brian/was there when he died?
--How did he die? (drug OD, alcohol poisoning, physical fight, accidental fall).
--Why ties into "how"
--Where? (where did he go after the bar, where did the final incident take place?)
--Where #2? Where is he so he can be brought back to this family and even if the case isn't "solved", there will be closure to some degree.

If any new and legitimate information is released that questions my conclusion, I will absolutely reconsider but right now this is my belief. To those who share the same belief as I do, this may be really obvious. Writing this out logically has helped me confirm my belief and list the questions we want/need answered to eventually find Brian.

Btw, I've been meaning to read up on the Maura Murray case, so just started on Wikipedia. It's quite. Long and detailed, haven't quite finished, but it is interesting.

 

[neesaki]

I went ahead and emailed NAMUS regarding the UID and Brian. It's a shame they don't have Brian's DNA already, no telling how long it might take if they decide to proceed.

The remains were found in Pennsylvania in November, 2006, but they weren't posted on NAMUS until 2016. They were found on the banks of the Susquehanna River by a hunter. This is approximately 450 miles from Columbus. There were only partial remains, top of the skull, partial lower jaw was missing. Maybe the missing jaw might explain why the artist rendition depicts a narrower jaw line than Brian's. The age range works, as well as the nose, IMO. Unfortunately there isn't much else to go on, but they do have DNA and some dental. I have wondered if this UID was already submitted by someone, but it doesn't show Brian's name under the exclusions. I do realize that the chances are minuscule that it will be a match, but I just didn't feel like I could ignore it .

https://www.identifyus.org/en/cases/14703
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/870umpa.html

Oh, I didn't find a thread for this UID in the Unidentified forum. Was thinking of starting one when I get the chance, or if someone else has the time ?

Anyway, this was her emailed reply:

We appreciate your time and support.

NamUs staff will review the submitted information as well as notify the investigating agencies for their consideration.

Please note that confirmed exclusions will be posted to NamUs only by authorization of the investigating agency.

 

[george14]

I went ahead and emailed NAMUS regarding the UID and Brian. It's a shame they don't have Brian's DNA already, no telling how long it might take if they decide to proceed.

The remains were found in Pennsylvania in November, 2006, but they weren't posted on NAMUS until 2016. They were found on the banks of the Susquehanna River by a hunter. This is approximately 450 miles from Columbus. There were only partial remains, top of the skull, partial lower jaw was missing. Maybe the missing jaw might explain why the artist rendition depicts a narrower jaw line than Brian's. The age range works, as well as the nose, IMO. Unfortunately there isn't much else to go on, but they do have DNA and some dental. I have wondered if this UID was already submitted by someone, but it doesn't show Brian's name under the exclusions. I do realize that the chances are minuscule that it will be a match, but I just didn't feel like I could ignore it .

https://www.identifyus.org/en/cases/14703
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/870umpa.html

Oh, I didn't find a thread for this UID in the Unidentified forum. Was thinking of starting one when I get the chance, or if someone else has the time ?

Anyway, this was her emailed reply:

I did the same thing regarding Case #07-7119 a few weeks ago. Fits the height, age, and was in Detroit which isn't too far away.

https://www.identifyus.org/en/cases/11730

 

[Brainy]

Thinking of Brian today and many who who disappeared without a trace May they be blessed and know that we think of them, and that they are not forgotten.

 

[neesaki]

It's so sad to see Brian's case go so stone cold . It would be good to hear something from the LE in charge of the case, which as I understand it is Columbus PD. Would it do any good to reach out to them? Probably not, but maybe worth a try.

 

[Brainy]

It's so sad to see Brian's case go so stone cold . It would be good to hear something from the LE in charge of the case, which as I understand it is Columbus PD. Would it do any good to reach out to them? Probably not, but maybe worth a try.

I had a few times but haven't heard anything back. Wouldn't hurt to try again if you or someone else wants to give it a try. Any information could be helpful.

I believe more people inquire about this, the chances are greater that we might hear something back.

 

[Brainy]

FYI for anyone interested

It's Det. John Hurst from Columbus PD
jhurst@columbuspolice.org

 

[CARIIS]

What you say is reasonable and makes sense, however... even if Clint was being careful not to be wrongfully accused of anything, why did he distance himself so much from Brian's family and efforts to find him? He could have had a lawyer, consulted them about the matter but continue helping with the search, working with the police to figure out what happened to his friend. There isn't one thing only about this guy that appears fishy. There is a collection of elements about his and his behaviors that seem very suspicious. Had he acted and behaved differently, there wouldn't be so much suspicion about him and his possible involvement in Brian's disappearance.

I agree with you about CLint something is off imo

If he chose to disappear and Clint knows all along -- if you go back to around the first 3 months following him vanishing would Clint be in trouble if he then came forward and told them that Brian chose to vanish and he kept quiet for his friends sake -- could he be charged with something ??

But dont think he chose to vanish really........

Something I have pondered if he stayed back with staff who might have been friends (I used to do that at one bar with the owners - several of us would hang out in the bar after they locked it up for the night) and then maybe something happened by accident (fight fall alcohol OD spring break is really party party party!

There have been mentions of some other exits - staff would surely know about them. They would also be able to kill the camera for a second or so.

Do we know if the camera was 24 hours ? If not that could answer much?

Another thing I wondered if he went out the construcion site door fell died and was found by some early arriving construction folk who did not want to get involved and hid his body

The starting a new life does not ring for me -- I think something nefarious happened that evening.............moo

 

[CARIIS]

Yes. Police tracked Clint and Meredith leave the bar, call Brian, and then watched them go into the parking garage and leave.

Has there ever been anything about how buzzed everyone was that night ??

 

[CARIIS]

[video=youtube;Z0dkPpXWtC8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0dkPpXWtC8[/video]

According to this Mer Clint never tried his cell phone - that is just bizarre guys

what is the first thing two friends would doif they got separated in a bar??

They also sure did not wait around along --10 minutes is really short amount of time

 

[neesaki]

I agree with you about CLint something is off imo

If he chose to disappear and Clint knows all along -- if you go back to around the first 3 months following him vanishing would Clint be in trouble if he then came forward and told them that Brian chose to vanish and he kept quiet for his friends sake -- could he be charged with something ??

But dont think he chose to vanish really........

Something I have pondered if he stayed back with staff who might have been friends (I used to do that at one bar with the owners - several of us would hang out in the bar after they locked it up for the night) and then maybe something happened by accident (fight fall alcohol OD spring break is really party party party!

There have been mentions of some other exits - staff would surely know about them. They would also be able to kill the camera for a second or so.

Do we know if the camera was 24 hours ? If not that could answer much?

Another thing I wondered if he went out the construcion site door fell died and was found by some early arriving construction folk who did not want to get involved and hid his body

The starting a new life does not ring for me -- I think something nefarious happened that evening.............moo

The bolded, "be able to kill the camera" is what I've been wondering about. I watched a movie where something like that happened. They actually stopped the camera then restarted it, to murder a woman, so it didn't show them doing it. The investigators had to zoom in on the clock in the room to prove the time difference, there were several minutes missing. Still, you're saying they can do that? Would it be fairly easy for them to do it? Thank you , Cariis!

 

[Brainy]

The bolded, "be able to kill the camera" is what I've been wondering about. I watched a movie where something like that happened. They actually stopped the camera then restarted it, to murder a woman, so it didn't show them doing it. The investigators had to zoom in on the clock in the room to prove the time difference, there were several minutes missing. Still, you're saying they can do that? Would it be fairly easy for them to do it? Thank you , Cariis!

Neesaki, I imagine it could be possible if the person had any knowledge of how to tamper with cameras and recordings. I find it unlikely however, that the LE hasn't considered this or haven't examined any gaps in the video more closely. Then again, I can't say with 100% surety though.


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[Brainy]

Another thing to consider... How come someone from that night haven't come forward with more info about the band? It could be helpful to know who they were and some details about their background. I do find it odd that their identity hasn't been disclosed.


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