OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 April 2006 - #3

[Brainy]

Yep I am on the same page when it comes to Clint. Now lets look at it from a different perspective. Lets assume that Clint knew or at least suspected that Brian was going to leave. Maybe he didn't know when or where Brian would go but he knew about the plan.. Maybe he asked Clint never to tell anyone. So when the media asked Clint (and I saw the interviews) about Brian he said he didn't know where Brian was that's one thing, but once it came down to being questioned by the law and taking a lie detector test that's another. At this point Clint could be legally held responsible if he was lying.

Now here is what I think happened and this is just my opinion based on what I have read. I think that Clint told his attorney that Brian left on his own. Since there is an attorney client secrecy Clint's attorney couldn't tell anyone. I think his attorney called the police and they talked about the possibility of Brian leaving and one of the detectives said that they thought Brian was alive. Remember that Clint's attorney said he thought Brian was alive based on what the detective told him. Now Clint's attorney was free to say that he thought Brian was alive based on what the detective told him and he didn't have to betray what Clint told him. Brian's dad Randy hired a PI and they both believed that Brian was alive too. At this point all Randy wanted to know from Clint was if Brian was still alive. For some reason Clint ain't talkin.

I still believe that Brian left that bar alive and through his own doings. Like I said before, after Randy's death and all the media coverage at this point if Brian is still alive I don't think he has too much of a choice to come back even if he wanted to.

I understand.... But... There is still nothing to support why they believe Brian to be alive. They believe Brian to be alive based on what? If the LE is keeping some very important information undisclosed, why would would they do that? If they gave me a reason as to why they believe Brian to be alive, perhaps I could understand their point of view better. Other than that, their beliefs are based on nothing but BS.


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[neesaki]

I'll believe it when I see the actual evidence. If you believe that he left on his own, how do you think he got out of the immediate area?

FWIW , I don’t think I know what I believe due to the lack of evidence, or at least that we are privy to. I am open to various theories though. We have nothing to go on as to how he got out of the bar, whether he left on his own or not, or whether he left alive or not. Which is the problem with any theory on what happened to him.... except I guess for the theory that he never left at all, which though seems the most far fetched theory to me I suppose is not impossible, jmo. I do appreciate everyone’s thoughts and points of view regardless, always gives more food for thought.

This case drives me nuts! Sure wish we could get the PI to come here and have a Q and A, I really would love to learn the evidence they came up with and why they leaned toward the belief that Brian is alive.

 

[Ozoner]

FWIW , I don’t think I know what I believe due to the lack of evidence, or at least that we are privy to. I am open to various theories though. We have nothing to go on as to how he got out of the bar, whether he left on his own or not, or whether he left alive or not. Which is the problem with any theory on what happened to him.... except I guess for the theory that he never left at all, which though seems the most far fetched theory to me I suppose is not impossible, jmo. I do appreciate everyone’s thoughts and points of view regardless, always gives more food for thought.

This case drives me nuts! Sure wish we could get the PI to come here and have a Q and A, I really would love to learn the evidence they came up with and why they leaned toward the belief that Brian is alive.

Even if Brian left voluntarily, that doesn't necessarily mean that he's still alive.

Some people may run off because they want to commit suicide but don't want anyone to know. Mel Wiley (who was never located) and "Lyle Stevik" (who hanged himself in a hotel room but has never been identified) are a couple of examples of people who probably fall into that category.

Brian could have hitched a ride to Cincinatti or Cleveland and then found an out-of-the-way manhole or culvert to crawl into with a bottle of sleeping pills.

 

[neesaki]

Even if Brian left voluntarily, that doesn't necessarily mean that he's still alive.

Some people may run off because they want to commit suicide but don't want anyone to know. Mel Wiley (who was never located) and "Lyle Stevik" (who hanged himself in a hotel room but has never been identified) are a couple of examples of people who probably fall into that category.

Brian could have hitched a ride to Cincinatti or Cleveland and then found an out-of-the-way manhole or culvert to crawl into with a bottle of sleeping pills.

Ok, let’s just list all of the possible horrific scenarios we can come up with. I’m sure the list would be endless. Please continue, while being sure to discount any possibility he could be alive. Jmo

 

[embufum]

I understand.... But... There is still nothing to support why they believe Brian to be alive. They believe Brian to be alive based on what? If the LE is keeping some very important information undisclosed, why would would they do that? If they gave me a reason as to why they believe Brian to be alive, perhaps I could understand their point of view better. Other than that, their beliefs are based on nothing but BS.


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No, you're assuming that there is nothing to support Brian being alive based solely on your lack of knowledge. How can you say their beliefs are based on nothing just because you don't know what they know? Brian being dead or alive isn't dependent on yours mine or anyone else's belief because of our lack of knowledge about the case. I would assume that "their" beliefs are based on thousands of hours of research. I'll have more confidence with their opinions than mine or anyone else's.

 

[Brainy]

No, you're assuming that there is nothing to support Brian being alive based solely on your lack of knowledge. How can you say their beliefs are based on nothing just because you don't know what they know? Brian being dead or alive isn't dependent on yours mine or anyone else's belief because of our lack of knowledge about the case. I would assume that "their" beliefs are based on thousands of hours of research. I'll have more confidence with their opinions than mine or anyone else's.

Yes, I am assuming that there is nothing to support the theory of Brian being alive because there is no evidence to my knowledge to make me think otherwise. Then, why would I? And, you are assuming, by default, that the LE must know something, and this may just not be the case. Det. Hurst, who has been the main investigative leader for this case for years, has stated multiple times that there has never been a single piece of evidence recovered to stir the case to any particular direction (whether Brian disappeared willingly/killed/must be alive somewhere). Nothing. You can read about this by doing a simple google search. If I choose to trust the detectives who make the statements of no evidence being found, then wouldn't we trust the idea that they must not hide any reasons behind their speculations whether Brian is alive or not? I am simply not extending them my absolute trust just because of their authority.

Also, consider this, if they truly had substantive beliefs that Brian was alive, would they still use resources, time and efforts to locate him? If their beliefs were so strong based on whatever evidence they had, do you think they still would be looking for Brian?


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[Brainy]

Ok, let’s just list all of the possible horrific scenarios we can come up with. I’m sure the list would be endless. Please continue, while being sure to discount any possibility he could be alive. Jmo

Neesaki,

I think what Ozoner was pointing out is that he could have chosen to leave but even that doesn't necessarily mean that he must be alive or chose to start a new life somewhere.

I believe we are all looking for small glimmers of hope, and there wasn't any intention to completely abandon the possibility of him being alive somewhere.


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[embufum]

Yes, I am assuming that there is nothing to support the theory of Brian being alive because there is no evidence to my knowledge to make me think otherwise. Then, why would I? And, you are assuming, by default, that the LE must know something, and this may just not be the case. Det. Hurst, who has been the main investigative leader for this case for years, has stated multiple times that there has never been a single piece of evidence recovered to stir the case to any particular direction (whether Brian disappeared willingly/killed/must be alive somewhere). Nothing. You can read about this by doing a simple google search. If I choose to trust the detectives who make the statements of no evidence being found, then wouldn't we trust the idea that they must not hide any reasons behind their speculations whether Brian is alive or not? I am simply not extending them my absolute trust just because of their authority.

Also, consider this, if they truly had substantive beliefs that Brian was alive, would they still use resources, time and efforts to locate him? If their beliefs were so strong based on whatever evidence they had, do you think they still would be looking for Brian?


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1. No I am not assuming by default. Det Hurst has stated that there is no evidence that he is alive or dead. He also stated that they have no evidence of foul play.


2. He then said that they have 3 theories that they will not release to the public. So he is admitting that they do know something and they are hiding evidence of these 3 theories. So in this case to answer your question there is no reason to trust an idea that really doesn't exist but is just an assumption you are making that he must be forth coming to the public to release all evidence. Remember, Clint's lawyer made a statement that one of the Detectives stated they thought Brian was alive. When they were contacted about the statement that Clint's lawyer made they chose not to comment. If he was lying why wouldn't the Columbus police just say the lawyer was lying?

3. Well that is really not a question that I can answer since I have no idea what evidence that Det. Hurst and his team have uncovered that is not being released to the public. They have admitted to doing thousands of hours worth of research to discover if Brian is alive or dead and to my knowledge included looking for him included following leads that led to the Virgin Islands. To this day they are using their resources to follow up on tips to locate Brian.

 

[Brainy]

1. No I am not assuming by default. Det Hurst has stated that there is no evidence that he is alive or dead. He also stated that they have no evidence of foul play.


2. He then said that they have 3 theories that they will not release to the public. So he is admitting that they do know something and they are hiding evidence of these 3 theories. So in this case to answer your question there is no reason to trust an idea that really doesn't exist but is just an assumption you are making that he must be forth coming to the public to release all evidence. Remember, Clint's lawyer made a statement that one of the Detectives stated they thought Brian was alive. When they were contacted about the statement that Clint's lawyer made they chose not to comment. If he was lying why wouldn't the Columbus police just say the lawyer was lying?

3. Well that is really not a question that I can answer since I have no idea what evidence that Det. Hurst and his team have uncovered that is not being released to the public. They have admitted to doing thousands of hours worth of research to discover if Brian is alive or dead and to my knowledge included looking for him included following leads that led to the Virgin Islands.

You are pointing out the obvious - the fact that there is no evidence to reach a conclusion. True. But my point is had they had evidence based on any real substance, they would very likely dismiss the search if they believed Brian to be alive. So, from my prespective, I don't see that law enforcement knows what happened to Brian, hence the speculations and theories.

About Clint's lawyer... You see, I don't know the guy and have only heard of him through writers of various news articles. He may or may not be credible. As for Columbus PD, they have not been very communicative or willing to share anything on this case. I know at least a few people from here (including me) who have reached out to them with requests of interview, info on new development, etc.


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[embufum]

You are pointing out the obvious - the fact that there is no evidence to reach a conclusion. True. But my point is had they had evidence based on any real substance, they would very likely dismiss the search if they believed Brian to be alive. So, from my prespective, I don't see that law enforcement knows what happened to Brian, hence the speculations and theories.

About Clint's lawyer... You see, I don't know the guy and have only heard of him through writers of various news articles. He may or may not be credible. As for Columbus PD, they have not been very communicative or willing to share anything on this case. I know at least a few people from here (including me) who have reached out to them with requests of interview, info on new development, etc.


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Really why? There are a lot of people who are missing that are presumed alive and maybe have amnesia or are considered runaways. This doesn't mean the police will just stop looking into a sighting or some type of useful information. Sadly unless you are some type of big news channel you are prob going to get turned down for an interview. If you were lucky enough to get one they are not going to give you any info that they already have given, but I commend you on your efforts!

 

[dotr]

Why all the secrecy? imo.
https://www.thelantern.com/2008/10/brian-shaffer-clue-could-lead-to-missing-student/
Oct 12 2008

The deputy chief in charge of the case repeatedly refused to allow him, and the late Randall Shaffer, access to all of the evidence and case files. Corbett expressed his concern that police have missed critical evidence that could solve the case; he has filed an application for a writ of mandamus to compel the police chief to provide him with records from the investigation. A representative from Columbus police was not available for comment.

“People ask, ‘Do you believe he’s deceased or is he still out there?'” Corbett said. “If we knew, there wouldn’t be anything to investigate.”

Any information about the disappearance of Brian Shaffer can be directed to the Central Ohio Crime Stoppers at 614-645-8477.

 

[Ozoner]

2. He then said that they have 3 theories that they will not release to the public. So he is admitting that they do know something and they are hiding evidence of these 3 theories.

There is a non-sequitur in that statement. Just because the police have three theories that could fit the known facts of the case, it does not automatically follow that they have evidence pointing to any of those theories. One could argue that the existence of three theories--as opposed to a single working theory--could bespeak a lack of meaningful evidence.

I think we could all come up with at least three plausible theories:
1) He was overwhelmed by his mother's death and his pending engagement, so he took a powder. He's living his life somewhere.
2) He thought he would prank his friends by jumping over the balcony and disappearing for a little while, but in doing so he hit his head, became disoriented, and wandered until he fell into the river.
3) Brian tried to prank his friends as stated above, but he actually showed back up at his apartment, where an altercation with Clint ensued, and Clint killed him.
4) Brian stumbled into the construction area after exploring the freight elevator and died acidentally because the site wasn't properly secured; one of the property owners or construction company owners found him the next day and concealed the death in order to avoid civil liability.
5) Brian helped the band members remove their equipment using the freight elevator; an altercation ensued and he was murdered.
6) Brian left with the band and OD'd on something that one of the band members gave him.
7) Brian decided to take his own life but chose to do it in a way that would prevent his body from being found.

You get the idea.

 

[embufum]

There is a non-sequitur in that statement. Just because the police have three theories that could fit the known facts of the case, it does not automatically follow that they have evidence pointing to any of those theories. One could argue that the existence of three theories--as opposed to a single working theory--could bespeak a lack of meaningful evidence.

I think we could all come up with at least three plausible theories:
1) He was overwhelmed by his mother's death and his pending engagement, so he took a powder. He's living his life somewhere.
2) He thought he would prank his friends by jumping over the balcony and disappearing for a little while, but in doing so he hit his head, became disoriented, and wandered until he fell into the river.
3) Brian tried to prank his friends as stated above, but he actually showed back up at his apartment, where an altercation with Clint ensued, and Clint killed him.
4) Brian stumbled into the construction area after exploring the freight elevator and died acidentally because the site wasn't properly secured; one of the property owners or construction company owners found him the next day and concealed the death in order to avoid civil liability.
5) Brian helped the band members remove their equipment using the freight elevator; an altercation ensued and he was murdered.
6) Brian left with the band and OD'd on something that one of the band members gave him.
7) Brian decided to take his own life but chose to do it in a way that would prevent his body from being found.

You get the idea.

Fact: The police said they have 3 theories
Fact : The police said they will not release any info about the theories they have.

Of course we all have read these things before that's no real news here. Usually in crime when you talk about theories and will not give out information it is to either protect the victim or to protect the integrity of the investigation. Since we don't know all the facts of the case we can't assume what their evidence may be.

Your first theory I can agree with you.

Number 2 doubtful since the river was quite a walk and professional divers did a thorough search of the river and that river is not too deep.

Number 3 Why prank anyone? What purpose would it serve? Why would Clint kill Brian and do it at his home? What about broken item, blood spatter, neighbors hearing a ruckus? BTW did anyone else read that Clint said he went to Brian's house the next day and waited in front of his house for 6 hours waiting for Brian to come home?

Number 4 Cadaver dogs would have picked up the scent. No evidence of blood. Why even go to the trouble?

Number 5 There is no reason to assume the the band members would use the freight elevator. There is an elevator directly to the left of the entrance to the escalator that leads to the bar. You can see it in the photos that I have posted. The stage is not very big at all. It's not like there is going to be a lot of equipment being brought in. Actually I just text my friend who is in a band. I asked him how he would bring his instruments in he said escalator and asked why I was asking. I then told him and showed him the pics of the stage. He said they would definitely use the escalator no elevator needed. Of course one or all of them could have jumped on the elevator but that's irrelevant since it would be for a matter of choice not because of carrying something too heavy. I used the escalator since who would want to stand there waiting for an elevator to travel one floor and have to walk all the way around from the back when the escalator is right in front of you and much quicker..

Number 6 He would have been seen leaving.

Number 7 The police said it would be very unlikely for someone to commit suicide and go to an effort to hide oneself. Even if he did why sneak out of the bar to do so?

 

[embufum]

Last call 2:10 close at 2:30. Just FYI I called.

 

[Lavinia]

Thank you for checking on this, I know we have gone back and forth. I question if this was the case during the time that Brian went missing as this is going on 12 years!

Last call 2:10 close at 2:30. Just FYI I called.

 

[embufum]

Thank you for checking on this, I know we have gone back and forth. I question if this was the case during the time that Brian went missing as this is going on 12 years!

It was. That's one of the reasons I called. Back in 2008 I think, because I read it about 3 weeks ago there was a girl who posted and she said she was from Columbus and she gave those exact hours.

 

[Blue Girl1991]

Brian went with friends to the pub, he was in good spirit and he was friendly, talking to the girls and to the band members , he was looking forward to ask the love of his life to be his fiance , a person like that doesn't suddenly decide to leave the bar , start a new life and never contact his family and his girlfriend and cause them agony , when a person vanished in such circumstances he probably met a foul play.

Clint who was supposed to be his best friend , instead of doing everything to help the police he just took a Lawyer? a good friend is going to corporate with the police every time they need to, a good friend will put flyers of his missing friend and will try to publish this case in every social media and keep contact with Brian family, is Clint did that? no he didn't,his actions make him very possible suspect.

Brian probably was killed at the same night and in my opinion there are 2 options , Clint is responsible or at least he know why Brian was killed.

I wouldn't be surprised if the police see Clint as a suspect, I wish there were within the law some legal tools to put some pressure on Clint ,if there were such options then I think this heartbreaking case Had been solved years ago.

I don't wish anyone "Good" friends like Clint.

 

[embufum]

Brian went with friends to the pub, he was in good spirit and he was friendly, talking to the girls and to the band members , he was looking forward to ask the love of his life to be his fiance , a person like that doesn't suddenly decide to leave the bar , start a new life and never contact his family and his girlfriend and cause them agony , when a person vanished in such circumstances he probably met a foul play.

Clint who was supposed to be his best friend , instead of doing everything to help the police he just took a Lawyer? a good friend is going to corporate with the police every time they need to, a good friend will put flyers of his missing friend and will try to publish this case in every social media and keep contact with Brian family, is Clint did that? no he didn't,his actions make him very possible suspect.

Brian probably was killed at the same night and in my opinion there are 2 options , Clint is responsible or at least he know why Brian was killed.

I wouldn't be surprised if the police see Clint as a suspect, I wish there were within the law some legal tools to put some pressure on Clint ,if there were such options then I think this heartbreaking case Had been solved years ago.

I don't wish anyone "Good" friends like Clint.

Yes it does seem odd that Clint did not want to take a LDT but lets assume that when he was questioned they asked him if Brian and himself had any type of illegal drugs in their system. Let's assume that they did. I would understand why Clint would not want to get into that. Once it got out it may have affected his career. Assuming the Clint doesn't know anything then by him not taking the test it's not hurting the case. If he does know and is not saying anything because Brian asked him not to then we will probably never know.

I don't see Clint killing Brian. He certainly could not have done it in the bar. Some have suggested Clint waited for Brian to come home then killed him.. If that's the case then we would have to dismiss the fact that Brian not seen leaving the bar is not relevant to the case and I can't imagine that at all.

 

[Blue Girl1991]

Yes it does seem odd that Clint did not want to take a LDT but lets assume that when he was questioned they asked him if Brian and himself had any type of illegal drugs in their system. Let's assume that they did. I would understand why Clint would not want to get into that. Once it got out it may have affected his career. Assuming the Clint doesn't know anything then by him not taking the test it's not hurting the case. If he does know and is not saying anything because Brian asked him not to then we will probably never know.

I don't see Clint killing Brian. He certainly could not have done it in the bar. Some have suggested Clint waited for Brian to come home then killed him.. If that's the case then we would have to dismiss the fact that Brian not seen leaving the bar is not relevant to the case and I can't imagine that at all.

I think that the refusal of Clint to take
polygraph it's not the only reason who makes him as a suspect, his lack of caring and apathy to Brian disappearance shows a lot , it seems to me that Clint didn't really want that Brian will be found becouse it will not be good to his own self-preservation ,I think Clint a know why Brian met foul play or even worse... he is the reason that Brian met a foul play.

Regarding the Camera , Brian might have also left the building by another route, the building's only other exit, a service door not generally used by the public, opened at the time Leading to a construction site , maybe there was confrontation between Clint and Brian .

It would be interesting to know what Bryan's brother , Bryan's friends and Bryan's girlfriend at that time think about Clint

 

[embufum]

I think that the refusal of Clint to take
polygraph it's not the only reason who makes him as a suspect, his lack of caring and apathy to Brian disappearance shows a lot , it seems to me that Clint didn't really want that Brian will be found becouse it will not be good to his own self-preservation ,I think Clint a know why Brian met foul play or even worse... he is the reason that Brian met a foul play.

Regarding the Camera , Brian might have also left the building by another route, the building's only other exit, a service door not generally used by the public, opened at the time Leading to a construction site , maybe there was confrontation between Clint and Brian .

It would be interesting to know what Bryan's brother , Bryan's friends and Bryan's girlfriend at that time think about Clint

Have you ever seen the interview that Clint gave? First thing I thought was this guy is a weirdo. I agree he tried on purpose to paint Brian in a bad light. Far as the exits, I am almost positive that all of them were covered by cameras either from cameras on them directly or from across the street from other buildings.

I want to say that having been there doesn't make me an expert on the building and layout but when I walked into the bar you really get a different sense of things. The bar itself takes up about half of the space and it's not some big night club that people might imagine. I remember thinking how in the hell did he get out of here with out being seen! If you have read my theory then you know how I believe he did.

Oh, here's little story. Couple years ago I was sitting at a starbucks about 3 hours away from Columbus at a big table with a couple friends and there is a girl sitting near us. We were talking about Brian's case and she looks over and says I used to go to that bar all the time. She said she graduated from OSU and just as you guys probably already guessed she didn't really have anything to add to what I already knew. Thought it was a big coincidence and had to mention.