OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 April 2006 - #3

[embufum]

Yes it is clear how they accounted for everyone. During a police interview he said that everyone that came up the escalator was seen leaving. Keep in mind the still shots that we are seeing are copies are are much grainier than what the police had available. They were seeing the original tapes. He also said that he was 100% sure that Brian did not leave by the escalator.

The camera that watches the entrance is a fixed camera and every exit to that building had a camera on it. The emergency exit had a camera that snapped a photo each time the door was opened. I'm only speculating but I would think that the police would have watched videos of the area to see if anyone brought out a large container from somewhere.

There are plenty of photos of the bar on line and a good video of the inside too. The bar is basically one big square room and the bar itself takes up a huge amount of the room. Off to the left is the kitchen area. I was in the men's room and it is very small with just one stall and one urinal.

You really have to be inside that place to realize there just isn't any place to hide or get out of there other than the front entrance. When I first walked in my first thoughts were how in the "F" did this guy disappear in here?? I know my post is long but in it I explain how my thinking changed as far as how I came to think what happened.

 

[embufum]

Alexis stated that she found Brian's password written down and went on his myspace to check messages for possible clues. Nothing of interest was found though

I kind of figured that. Thanks!!!

 

[embufum]

So last night I found an old thread about Brian that was started when he went missing. ( I will post the link to the thread in a bit) To this day it is still being updated but obviously over time not as much. I read through 47 pages of this thing until my eyes about started bleeding. lol One person who posted on this site knew Brian's dad and was in contact with the detective who was handling the case. It was kind of weird as I was reading the posts that were in real time and it kind of brought you back in time.

I was reading and then all of the sudden you would read something that just happened like Brian's dad passing or a new lead that got everyone excited and then didn't really go anywhere. There is a lot of good in of that I haven't never seen before and a couple things that just blew me away.

OK so this was posted around Oct of 2008.

http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/comment/18935#Comment_18935

This message was sent via the investigator to Vanderbilt University where Clint is now a microbilogist. the officer was very interested in this information, and agreed to post flyers around campus...I have a copy of the flyer if anyone wants me to send it via email.



Dear Detective Mark Hallman: I am a board certified investigator from Columbus, Ohio attempting to locate missing Ohio State University Medical Student Brian Shaffer. Please review the attached documents concerning missing Ohio State University Medical Student Brian Shaffer. Brian Shaffer was last seen on the OSU campus on April 1, 2006 (see attached case summary and missing flyer's) with his close friend William "Clint" Florence who is now a Research Fellow in the Vanderbilt University Department of Microbiology & Immunology as a Post Doctoral trainee. William "Clint" Florence has refused to take a polygraph for the Columbus, Ohio Police or the Ohio State University Police, has hired a criminal defense attorney, moved to Vanderbilt and has been less then cooperative with the police and this investigator. Florence behavior has been described as indifferent and unusual since the disappearance of Brian Shaffer. Florence may be considered a person of interest in this matter but there is currently a lack of evidence to identify him as a suspect. This case has received national media attention and Brian Shaffer's father Randy Shaffer was recently killed in a tragic accident where a tree fell on him in his back yard. Clint Florence photograph and personal data can be found on page 2 & 3 of the case file (document attached). I would appreciate you posting the attached flyer's around campus and at Microbiology Center, forwarding the attached data to your campus newspaper, and providing any information available. I can be reached at 614-565-7189 or contact Detective Sergeant John Hurst at the Columbus, Ohio Police Department 614-645-4670. Please contact me with any question. Regards,

 

[embufum]

OK so this was the post that really shocked me. I'm sure you will understand what part I am talking about.




yahamita Posts: 1,508
January 2010

Was able to get ahold of the private investigator, Don, and also had a chance to reconnect with Lori, she takes care of brians page. What I know is the same weirdo from before is at it again. This time the person has started calling Lori out by name, indicating she is a supporter of serial killers and an enabler of psychopaths, so she contacted Crimestoppers with the info to see if they can find the IP addy where he's posting from. Also, I will add a few quotes from Don from last night...his thoughts...

"Clint's attorney has forbidden me to have any contact whatsoever with him. It's my belief that Clint holds the key to this mystery.

It is also my belief that Brian is still alive (but my opinion means nothing if I cannot locate and speak with Brian and inquire as to why he chose to leave in such a manner). I truly believe Brian will someday turn up based on the information discovered by Randy and I. There have been hundreds of adults who for whatever reason decide to completely disappear and start a new life and as hard as it is to believe that it could be accomplished in this day and age it does occur.

So there you have it...no new leads at this point, but some strange activity on his page..

 

[neesaki]

OK so this was the post that really shocked me. I'm sure you will understand what part I am talking about.




yahamita Posts: 1,508
January 2010

Was able to get ahold of the private investigator, Don, and also had a chance to reconnect with Lori, she takes care of brians page. What I know is the same weirdo from before is at it again. This time the person has started calling Lori out by name, indicating she is a supporter of serial killers and an enabler of psychopaths, so she contacted Crimestoppers with the info to see if they can find the IP addy where he's posting from. Also, I will add a few quotes from Don from last night...his thoughts...

"Clint's attorney has forbidden me to have any contact whatsoever with him. It's my belief that Clint holds the key to this mystery.

It is also my belief that Brian is still alive (but my opinion means nothing if I cannot locate and speak with Brian and inquire as to why he chose to leave in such a manner). I truly believe Brian will someday turn up based on the information discovered by Randy and I. There have been hundreds of adults who for whatever reason decide to completely disappear and start a new life and as hard as it is to believe that it could be accomplished in this day and age it does occur.

So there you have it...no new leads at this point, but some strange activity on his page..

Thanks, I’ve read over there as well but had forgotten about this post from Jan. 2010. I sure would like to know what information Randy and Don discovered that leads them to believe he’s alive.

 

[Ozoner]

Yes it is clear how they accounted for everyone. During a police interview he said that everyone that came up the escalator was seen leaving. Keep in mind the still shots that we are seeing are copies are are much grainier than what the police had available. They were seeing the original tapes. He also said that he was 100% sure that Brian did not leave by the escalator.

"Everyone who was seen coming up the escalator " doesn't necessarily mean everyone who was in the bar. What about employees and the band members? Did the band members use the freight elevator? Did the employees use a different entrance? The present layout may not be identical to the way the bar was laid out in 2006.

 

[Ozoner]

Additional thoughts:

You stated that the emergency exit had a door that snapped a picture every time the door was opened. What if someone opened the door and left it open? Presumably the camera trgger wouldn't reset until the door was closed again. If that's the case, then someone could chock the door open, and 100 people could enter and exit without being photographed. Maybe someone chocked the door open, let it take one innocuous picture, and then carted Brian's body out to a dumpster or vehicle. (We don't even know whether that camera functioned as designed; it may have failed to snap its picture every nth time. For that matter, how difficult would it have been for an employee to temporarily disable the camera?)

Do we know how rubbish was disposed of? Did the bar have its own dumpster? Which exit was used to take refuse out of the bar?

 

[embufum]

"Everyone who was seen coming up the escalator " doesn't necessarily mean everyone who was in the bar. What about employees and the band members? Did the band members use the freight elevator? Did the employees use a different entrance? The present layout may not be identical to the way the bar was laid out in 2006.

There are plenty of interviews that have Detective Hurst stating that everyone who came into the bar was accounted for leaving. I am going to take this as the employees and the band, why would he exclude them? I'm not sure if there is a actual freight elevator but there is a elevator to the left of the escalator as you walk in the door. There is no reason for anyone to use a separate entrance to the bar since you are basically just feet away from the entrance once you step on the escalator.

What a lot of people don't realize is there is no back entrance to the bar. It is on the second floor and is just a big room. As far as I can tell there is only the kitchen area and no other actual rooms. This building is basically a mini mall. If you have ever worked in a mall you will see these exit doors that basically are just long hallways that lead to the outside. Most of the time you can't enter through them just exit. The only emergency exit I saw was to the left of the bar and it had an alarm on it. Also keep in mind that the two policeman that were at the top of the escalator are there to make sure people don't fight and to not go places that they don't belong. Also and speculation on my part but I would think that any entrance to a construction site would be locked.

DT. Hurst stated they watched thousands of hours of video and talked to hundreds of people. That is an insane amount of hours of video to watch. But when you consider that Columbus has more video surveillance the Cleveland, Cincinnati and Toledo combined I kind of understand. I'm sure with that amount of hours they watched a lot of street videos too from other stores and street cams. They also brought in divers with sonar, volunteer search teams came in and Texas Equisearch. (sp?) These guys really did leave no stone unturned.

One thing that I do find funny is for the first time I read from one of the detectives who said, one of the ways Brian could have gotten out was "to jump over the balcony on to the roof".

 

[embufum]

So here are some photos from when I was there. There is one of the band stage. As you can see it is to the back right of the room and is kind of small. You can see the skirting around the stage. To the right of the stage you can see how the glass doors go up like a garage doors on a track. At the top of the stairs you can see the elevator at the bottom of the stairs. To the left of the stairs are the movie theaters. Coming up the stairs you can see the exit door with the sign lit up.

 

[embufum]

Couple more.

 

[dotr]

Thanks for the awesome pics. embufum, they really help to give a sense of the place.

 

[embufum]

Thanks for the awesome pics. embufum, they really help to give a sense of the place.

You're welcome. Next time I am in the area I will take more of the inside of the bar. I may even do a complete walk around of the building and try to get some pics of all the entrances.

 

[PaulR]

Dear Detective Mark Hallman: I am a board certified investigator from Columbus, Ohio attempting to locate missing Ohio State University Medical Student Brian Shaffer. Please review the attached documents concerning missing Ohio State University Medical Student Brian Shaffer. Brian Shaffer was last seen on the OSU campus on April 1, 2006 (see attached case summary and missing flyer's) with his close friend William "Clint" Florence who is now a Research Fellow in the Vanderbilt University Department of Microbiology & Immunology as a Post Doctoral trainee. William "Clint" Florence has refused to take a polygraph for the Columbus, Ohio Police or the Ohio State University Police, has hired a criminal defense attorney, moved to Vanderbilt and has been less then cooperative with the police and this investigator. Florence behavior has been described as indifferent and unusual since the disappearance of Brian Shaffer. Florence may be considered a person of interest in this matter but there is currently a lack of evidence to identify him as a suspect. This case has received national media attention and Brian Shaffer's father Randy Shaffer was recently killed in a tragic accident where a tree fell on him in his back yard. Clint Florence photograph and personal data can be found on page 2 & 3 of the case file (document attached). I would appreciate you posting the attached flyer's around campus and at Microbiology Center, forwarding the attached data to your campus newspaper, and providing any information available. I can be reached at 614-565-7189 or contact Detective Sergeant John Hurst at the Columbus, Ohio Police Department 614-645-4670. Please contact me with any question. Regards,

So some perhaps obvious response to this:
- polygraphs have dubious merit and aren't allowed in court. No cop worth his salt would let someone go because they passed a polygraph test. To someone who thinks a person is guilty, that person can't win - if they fail, they must be guilty, if they pass, they just beat the polygraph. Lawyers generally don't recommend people take it for these reasons.
- assuming he does/did have a lawyer, it is always a good idea that you have an attorney when you are talking to the police and follow their advice.
- "[his] behavior has been described as indifferent and unusual" - by who? The person who wrote the letter, it sounds like, hardly unbiased. Is this when we get to the "this is how people should act when a loved one vanishes and any deviation means they must be guilty of something" because it's well documented that everyone deals with something like this differently.
- "I would appreciate you posting the attached flyers around campus" - i.e. please harass someone and run them out of town because the police who investigated the case and know the most about it don't seem to have anything. I'd actually be surprised if the local (Nashville) police put up flyers emailed to them.
- None of this explains where the body went, which is the real mystery here.

 

[embufum]

So some perhaps obvious response to this:
- polygraphs have dubious merit and aren't allowed in court. No cop worth his salt would let someone go because they passed a polygraph test. To someone who thinks a person is guilty, that person can't win - if they fail, they must be guilty, if they pass, they just beat the polygraph. Lawyers generally don't recommend people take it for these reasons.
- assuming he does/did have a lawyer, it is always a good idea that you have an attorney when you are talking to the police and follow their advice.
- "[his] behavior has been described as indifferent and unusual" - by who? The person who wrote the letter, it sounds like, hardly unbiased. Is this when we get to the "this is how people should act when a loved one vanishes and any deviation means they must be guilty of something" because it's well documented that everyone deals with something like this differently.
- "I would appreciate you posting the attached flyers around campus" - i.e. please harass someone and run them out of town because the police who investigated the case and know the most about it don't seem to have anything. I'd actually be surprised if the local (Nashville) police put up flyers emailed to them.
- None of this explains where the body went, which is the real mystery here.

I agree I probably wouldn't take one either. So Clint's attorney has said that according to the police they think that Brian is alive. Now I see that the PI that Randy hired also thinks the same. I think at this point in the investigation the police are trying to get Clint to possibly let them know where Brian is.

On a side note, let's assume he is alive just for a second. Does anyone here really think that after all this time and effort and what has happened to his dad Brian would really reveal himself? How many people would hate this guy? All the people who have searched for him let alone his family and ex girlfriend, how would they react?

I can only guess what his brother would think. So Brian shows up at his brothers house one day and knocks on the door and says hey bro sorry I was gone so long I just had to get away. I personally hope he is alive, since that is better than the alternative, but I don't have anything invested in this. Now if this was my brother I honestly don't know how I would deal with it if I found out he was alive after all these years.

 

[dotr]

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/wd79yy/what-happens-when-someone-goes-missing-uk
Maya OppenheimFeb 26 2016

Hundreds of thousands of people are reported missing every year, but most of us know very little about what happens next.

According to a 2011 study by Missing People, between 0.6 percent and 1 percent of all missing person cases reported to the police end in the missing person being found dead. "In some cases, this is because they have been out of touch for a long time and have died of natural causes before contact was re-established," reads the report. "In other cases, this is because the missing person has become a victim of homicide, or has committed suicide, and may have been reported missing after their death, but before their body was discovered. Research suggests that the risk of being found dead is higher for adults than for young people, and the risk increases with age."

Nevertheless, it remains immensely difficult for missing people to get back in touch with family and friends. "The longer you're away, the harder it becomes to say to the people that you love, 'This is where I've been and why,'" Robinson explains. "If you didn't go home tonight, how would you explain tomorrow where you were and what you did, and how would you explain after two nights and after a week?"

Interestingly, research has shown that those who go missing make a series of short-term rash decisions. "They might decide, 'I can't take this any more, I'm leaving,' with no intention of staying away for a long period of time, rather than making a calculated plan to leave," says Robinson.

Many adults who remain missing for over a year will never return. While it's not unknown for people to come home—even after ten or 20 years—statistically speaking, the longer a person is missing, the less likely it is that he or she will be found or that he or she will reconnect with family or friends.

rbbm.

 

[Brainy]

I agree I probably wouldn't take one either. So Clint's attorney has said that according to the police they think that Brian is alive. Now I see that the PI that Randy hired also thinks the same. I think at this point in the investigation the police are trying to get Clint to possibly let them know where Brian is.

On a side note, let's assume he is alive just for a second. Does anyone here really think that after all this time and effort and what has happened to his dad Brian would really reveal himself? How many people would hate this guy? All the people who have searched for him let alone his family and ex girlfriend, how would they react?

I can only guess what his brother would think. So Brian shows up at his brothers house one day and knocks on the door and says hey bro sorry I was gone so long I just had to get away. I personally hope he is alive, since that is better than the alternative, but I don't have anything invested in this. Now if this was my brother I honestly don't know how I would deal with it if I found out he was alive after all these years.

I share so many of your thoughts that you share above. But... the idea of Clint being guilty or knowing more than he has shared isn't solely based on the fact that he wanted an attorney. His behavior has been that of a behavior of a person who has something to hide. Since he got quiet and didn't participate much in searches for Brian, this makes me think that somehow, he knows more and that there is something very bad that could have influenced or directly be connected to Brian's disappearance.

As for the possibility of Brian being alive... I just don't think that he is. To orchestrate own disappearance in such a masterful manner and happen to remain in hiding for 12 years... I just don't see how that could play out in this case. It could have, but the odds are against it. My belief is that Brian Shaffer is not alive. I don't see how he could be.

 

[embufum]

I share so many of your thoughts that you share above. But... the idea of Clint being guilty or knowing more than he has shared isn't solely based on the fact that he wanted an attorney. His behavior has been that of a behavior of a person who has something to hide. Since he got quiet and didn't participate much in searches for Brian, this makes me think that somehow, he knows more and that there is something very bad that could have influenced or directly be connected to Brian's disappearance.

As for the possibility of Brian being alive... I just don't think that he is. To orchestrate own disappearance in such a masterful manner and happen to remain in hiding for 12 years... I just don't see how that could play out in this case. It could have, but the odds are against it. My belief is that Brian Shaffer is not alive. I don't see how he could be.

Yep I am on the same page when it comes to Clint. Now lets look at it from a different perspective. Lets assume that Clint knew or at least suspected that Brian was going to leave. Maybe he didn't know when or where Brian would go but he knew about the plan.. Maybe he asked Clint never to tell anyone. So when the media asked Clint (and I saw the interviews) about Brian he said he didn't know where Brian was that's one thing, but once it came down to being questioned by the law and taking a lie detector test that's another. At this point Clint could be legally held responsible if he was lying.

Now here is what I think happened and this is just my opinion based on what I have read. I think that Clint told his attorney that Brian left on his own. Since there is an attorney client secrecy Clint's attorney couldn't tell anyone. I think his attorney called the police and they talked about the possibility of Brian leaving and one of the detectives said that they thought Brian was alive. Remember that Clint's attorney said he thought Brian was alive based on what the detective told him. Now Clint's attorney was free to say that he thought Brian was alive based on what the detective told him and he didn't have to betray what Clint told him. Brian's dad Randy hired a PI and they both believed that Brian was alive too. At this point all Randy wanted to know from Clint was if Brian was still alive. For some reason Clint ain't talkin.

I still believe that Brian left that bar alive and through his own doings. Like I said before, after Randy's death and all the media coverage at this point if Brian is still alive I don't think he has too much of a choice to come back even if he wanted to.

 

[neesaki]

Yep I am on the same page when it comes to Clint. Now lets look at it from a different perspective. Lets assume that Clint knew or at least suspected that Brian was going to leave. Maybe he didn't know when or where Brian would go but he knew about the plan.. Maybe he asked Clint never to tell anyone. So when the media asked Clint (and I saw the interviews) about Brian he said he didn't know where Brian was that's one thing, but once it came down to being questioned by the law and taking a lie detector test that's another. At this point Clint could be legally held responsible if he was lying.

Now here is what I think happened and this is just my opinion based on what I have read. I think that Clint told his attorney that Brian left on his own. Since there is an attorney client secrecy Clint's attorney couldn't tell anyone. I think his attorney called the police and they talked about the possibility of Brian leaving and one of the detectives said that they thought Brian was alive. Remember that Clint's attorney said he thought Brian was alive based on what the detective told him. Now Clint's attorney was free to say that he thought Brian was alive based on what the detective told him and he didn't have to betray what Clint told him. Brian's dad Randy hired a PI and they both believed that Brian was alive too. At this point all Randy wanted to know from Clint was if Brian was still alive. For some reason Clint ain't talkin.

I still believe that Brian left that bar alive and through his own doings. Like I said before, after Randy's death and all the media coverage at this point if Brian is still alive I don't think he has too much of a choice to come back even if he wanted to.

It is interesting that Clints attorney, Brian’s dad ( Randy ) , and Randy’s PI, all claim to have evidence Brian left on his own. That almost seems too much to be merely coincidence. JMO.

 

[Ozoner]

It is interesting that Clints attorney, Brian’s dad ( Randy ) , and Randy’s PI, all claim to have evidence Brian left on his own. That almost seems too much to be merely coincidence. JMO.

I'll believe it when I see the actual evidence. If you believe that he left on his own, how do you think he got out of the immediate area?

 

[embufum]

It is interesting that Clints attorney, Brian’s dad ( Randy ) , and Randy’s PI, all claim to have evidence Brian left on his own. That almost seems too much to be merely coincidence. JMO.

Exactly, and unfortunately we are not privy to that information. The only people that know are the police, Clint's lawyer, Randy and the PI that Randy hired. The police and Clint's lawyer are certainly not going to tell us. I would imagine that Brian's brother also knows since I would think that Randy was telling him everything that they found out. Funny that there not many interviews that I have seen with Brian's brother. You would think that by now someone would have asked him why his dad thought Brain was still alive at least back in 2008.