OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 April 2006 - #3

[XPh]

Neesaki—I completely agree with you (I think we all do) but I highly doubt we will ever see them, for any one of the following reasons:

1. They don’t exist
2. They do exist but look nothing like Brian
3. They do exist but are obviously inconclusive

I’d love to be proven wrong on this. Please someone (PI) prove me wrong.

Frankly, any time someone has supposed evidence of Brian leaving the building that night, it always ends up being refuted or entirely inconclusive. I am aware of zero reliable evidence that puts Brian outside of the building after that night. The closest thing was a questionable scent picked up by the dogs near Wendy’s, but even this was questioned by Sgt Hurst.

Again, I hope I’m wrong, but we’ve been waiting 12+ years for any evidence of Brian being outside of that building after April 1, 2006 and we have encountered none.

 

[dotr]

 

[george14]

Neesaki—I completely agree with you (I think we all do) but I highly doubt we will ever see them, for any one of the following reasons:

1. They don’t exist
2. They do exist but look nothing like Brian
3. They do exist but are obviously inconclusive

I’d love to be proven wrong on this. Please someone (PI) prove me wrong.

Frankly, any time someone has supposed evidence of Brian leaving the building that night, it always ends up being refuted or entirely inconclusive. I am aware of zero reliable evidence that puts Brian outside of the building after that night. The closest thing was a questionable scent picked up by the dogs near Wendy’s, but even this was questioned by Sgt Hurst.

Again, I hope I’m wrong, but we’ve been waiting 12+ years for any evidence of Brian being outside of that building after April 1, 2006 and we have encountered none.

Personally, I don't think it's reasonable to think Brian left the bar. Could he have? Sure, I mean anything under the sun is possible here. But given the facts we have I don't see any type of logical argument where a drunk guy evaded people, cameras, security, and was never seen again. Not to mention every single person who entered the bar was accounted for leaving the bar, except the guy who just so happens to be missing.

He was either killed in the bar then disposed of or had some type of accident and his body is yet to be found. I don't see any other logical explanation.

 

[itsrak]

Personally, I don't think it's reasonable to think Brian left the bar. Could he have? Sure, I mean anything under the sun is possible here. But given the facts we have I don't see any type of logical argument where a drunk guy evaded people, cameras, security, and was never seen again. Not to mention every single person who entered the bar was accounted for leaving the bar, except the guy who just so happens to be missing.

He was either killed in the bar then disposed of or had some type of accident and his body is yet to be found. I don't see any other logical explanation.

Agreed. The more time goes by with no body, no trace of Brian outside the building, the greater the probability (>50/50 IMO) that Brian's remains are in/under the building.

OSU owns the building. Brian was an OSU student. OSU'd prolly arrange for a search of the building, but finding the body in what was then a construction site would prolly produce ma$$ive liability.

 

[neesaki]

I peeked in the window of a new building this afternoon that had the concrete poured , yet they had holes in the concrete in several places with huge piles of dirt dug out and on top of the concrete floor. If it is like that with concrete already down,I can just imagine what a construction site would look like before the concrete.
I can see now how something could have happened and Brian and was buried there. I’m ow, I can’t believe I’m saying that either. Though if that’s the case I tend to not believe it was accidental. Jmo

 

[itsrak]

I peeked in the window of a new building this afternoon that had the concrete poured , yet they had holes in the concrete in several places with huge piles of dirt dug out and on top of the concrete floor. If it is like that with concrete already down,I can just imagine what a construction site would look like before the concrete.
I can see now how something could have happened and Brian and was buried there. I’m ow, I can’t believe I’m saying that either. Though if that’s the case I tend to not believe it was accidental. Jmo

Something like this?:

 

[Kaie]

The Wendy's where the k-9's may have picked up a scent... is it still there? I'm just looking at a map right now, and I keyed in the address of the Ugly Tuna Saloona and directions to the nearest Wendy's. I was wondering about the route he had to take if exited the bar, walked to the Wendy's area, and willing got into a car. In that scenario the reason he dodged his friends at the end of the night would be because he wanted to get into that car for whatever reason.
Nothing new there I know, I'm just rehashing an existing theory. But when I search for information on this case, don't see anything about makes and models of cars that were in the area at the time. So I don't know if CCTV footage ever made this theory all but debunked, or even if investigators managed to actually speak to any drivers of cars that were in the area in that timeframe.

 

[neesaki]

The Wendy's where the k-9's may have picked up a scent... is it still there? I'm just looking at a map right now, and I keyed in the address of the Ugly Tuna Saloona and directions to the nearest Wendy's. I was wondering about the route he had to take if exited the bar, walked to the Wendy's area, and willing got into a car. In that scenario the reason he dodged his friends at the end of the night would be because he wanted to get into that car for whatever reason.
Nothing new there I know, I'm just rehashing an existing theory. But when I search for information on this case, don't see anything about makes and models of cars that were in the area at the time. So I don't know if CCTV footage ever made this theory all but debunked, or even if investigators managed to actually speak to any drivers of cars that were in the area in that timeframe.

I’m pretty sure IIRC, the Wendy’s is no longer there and the CCTV cameras only showed the drive through and not the parking lot.

 

[Kaie]

I’m pretty sure IIRC, the Wendy’s is no longer there and the CCTV cameras only showed the drive through and not the parking lot.

I was thinking more of cameras pointed at streets or intersections near the Wendy's, rather than right within. Any of the possible routes that a car could to take if heading to pick someone up there.

I don't doubt that authorities looked at every bit of footage they had available of course, from multiple cameras, and if there were any cameras positioned for traffic surveillance, they would have looked at those too. If they were looking for the driver of a particular make and model of car, we'd know about it. I've just never heard anything specifically about that facet of the investigation though... not even that they sought to speak to motorists who were in the area but it wasn't fruitful.

My city does have cameras focussed on some streets near our nightclub district, so I guess I was thinking of that when I posted.

 

[thx4_medic_Babby]

It’s been a good while since I checked in on Brian, and am looking for a post/link from a detective who was familiar with the case. I believe he mentioned that there was a way Brian could have left without being spotted on camera.

If anyone can, I’d really appreciate any help on this.

 

[dotr]

It’s been a good while since I checked in on Brian, and am looking for a post/link from a detective who was familiar with the case. I believe he mentioned that there was a way Brian could have left without being spotted on camera.

If anyone can, I’d really appreciate any help on this.

This may not be the exact link you were looking for, but it essentially says the same thing concerning cctv.
rbbm.
Brian Shaffer – The Man Who Vanished while Surrounded by Cameras | Humans Are Free
"Columbus, Ohio has more security cameras than any other city in the state. In fact, Columbus has more cameras than Toledo, Cleveland, and Cincinnati combined. So police also checked other security cameras in the area, but those videos offered no clues either.

The lack of video evidence led investigators to consider the possibility that Shaffer changed his clothes while inside the bar or put on a hat and kept his head down as he left."
"Another possibility is that Shaffer left the bar using the back exit, although it was a service door not normally used by the public. Also, the service door opened onto a construction site.

Police said Shaffer probably did not exit that way because the site would have been difficult for him to navigate even when sober, let alone intoxicated.

In addition, the back exit also had a security camera. However, that security camera pans the area automatically, and it’s possible Shaffer wasn’t caught on video if he happened to be in the camera’s blind spot when he exited.

But no matter how Shaffer made it out of the bar, the lack of video meant police would not have any clues to work with."

 

[Ozoner]

I peeked in the window of a new building this afternoon that had the concrete poured , yet they had holes in the concrete in several places with huge piles of dirt dug out and on top of the concrete floor. If it is like that with concrete already down,I can just imagine what a construction site would look like before the concrete.
I can see now how something could have happened and Brian and was buried there. I’m ow, I can’t believe I’m saying that either. Though if that’s the case I tend to not believe it was accidental. Jmo

I agree that it was most likely accidental. I grew up in a suburban area where quite a bit of development was going on. I had the opportunity to see many, many construction sites. In fact, my friends and I routinely used construction sites as playgrounds. (There wasn't much security in those days; occasionally there would be a chain-link fence that could be easily hopped.) I can't tell you how many pits or trenches I saw that were mostly filled with water.

 

[Kaie]

I agree that it was most likely accidental. I grew up in a suburban area where quite a bit of development was going on. I had the opportunity to see many, many construction sites. In fact, my friends and I routinely used construction sites as playgrounds. (There wasn't much security in those days; occasionally there would be a chain-link fence that could be easily hopped.) I can't tell you how many pits or trenches I saw that were mostly filled with water.

I can't discount the possibility that the construction site had something to do with Brian's disappearance either. It's a theory that gets touted as "far fetched", and I don't disagree with those who say that... but a guy walking into a bar surrounded with CCTV cameras, never to be seen again, is also far fetched, yet it's absolutely true.

For every theory that's out there, there is some detail that makes us say "Nah... that can't be it". When it comes to the construction site theory (in which Brian's remains would still be on the site), the cadaver dogs failing to turn up anything in a search of the site pretty much tops the list. I have read up a bit about the accuracy of cadaver dogs, and I'm not convinced that this is enough to naysay the theory altogether.

I haven't fallen hook, line and sinker, for any theory in this case. I'm not a believer in this theory as such, but I can completely understand why people revisit it.

 

[njbchgal]

I am new to this case, probably has been discussed...any possibility he OD'd on something and he was found later on the premises and they covered it up? If he went out the back and it was treacherous don't understand how dogs didn't pick up on anything, it just screams liability/coverup unfortunately. That family has had such tragedy, feel so bad for his surviving brother

 

[XPh]

It's a theory that gets touted as "far fetched", and I don't disagree with those who say that... but a guy walking into a bar surrounded with CCTV cameras, never to be seen again, is also far fetched, yet it's absolutely true.

I think that this is a really important point that gets overlooked. The details we know about the case, as strange as they are, support the theories that something really unusual happened that night. So a theory that seems otherwise outlandish suddenly seems to be the thing that best fits the details we know.

I think that’s why I’m so drawn to this case. I’m usually the person who when discussing these cases will try to refute the “far fetched” theories in favor of far more common (but equally sad) occurrences—playing the odds so to speak. Random acts of violence, accidental drowning, suicide. But this is ONE case where I find myself honestly and truly believing that something very strange and uncommon happened that night.

This case is just haunting.

 

[itsrak]

I think that this is a really important point that gets overlooked. The details we know about the case, as strange as they are, support the theories that something really unusual happened that night. So a theory that seems otherwise outlandish suddenly seems to be the thing that best fits the details we know.

I think that’s why I’m so drawn to this case. I’m usually the person who when discussing these cases will try to refute the “far fetched” theories in favor of far more common (but equally sad) occurrences—playing the odds so to speak. Random acts of violence, accidental drowning, suicide. But this is ONE case where I find myself honestly and truly believing that something very strange and uncommon happened that night.

This case is just haunting.

This case taunts me. It is one of the only cases that has ever compelled me to get out from behind my computer keyboard to actually investigate a bit, have a look (Chandra Levy was another - I was convinced her remains were in Rock Creek Park, and it turned out they were - the cops had just missed them and they were eventually found by a hiker with his dog. And the McStay case was another!). I went to Columbus. Walked through the building. Checked out the theatre in the building (certainly didn't notice any stench coming from the food service area in the theatre as reported by at least one patron in 2007). Rode the escalator. Stood were Brian stood at the top. Looked in at the UTS, which had just gone out of business. Checked out exits. Walked all the way around the building. Drove past Brian's old apartment.

I think Brian Shaffer's remains are within/under the building that housed the UTS. I felt like I was near his remains, but could do nothing about it. Taunting, in that I think it is a solvable case, if only investigators could be compelled to do some tearing up and digging in the circa 2006 'construction area'...

 

[Kaie]

Just while we're on that theory, there's one question that I never can seem to find a definitive answer to... so if anyone has seen or read something that I haven't, please fill me in. It sounds like the construction site was active during the time between Brian last being seen, and the subsequent search of the area. My question is... just how much did the landscape of that construction site change in that time?

I'm living directly next-door to a construction site right now (lucky me!). There are stretches of time where it doesn't matter how much noise they make, or dust they stir up, the whole place looks exactly the same as it did weeks ago. The type of work done on a building site depends on how far along the project is. During the days in question in Brian's case, the construction workers could have been doing anything from mostly taking measurements and hammering stakes into the ground, to pouring tons of concrete. When the possibility (however slim) of Brian's remains being in the concrete comes up, I never do see an answer like "no concrete was actually poured in that timeframe".

 

[itsrak]

Just while we're on that theory, there's one question that I never can seem to find a definitive answer to... so if anyone has seen or read something that I haven't, please fill me in. It sounds like the construction site was active during the time between Brian last being seen, and the subsequent search of the area. My question is... just how much did the landscape of that construction site change in that time?

I'm living directly next-door to a construction site right now (lucky me!). There are stretches of time where it doesn't matter how much noise they make, or dust they stir up, the whole place looks exactly the same as it did weeks ago. The type of work done on a building site depends on how far along the project is. During the days in question in Brian's case, the construction workers could have been doing anything from mostly taking measurements and hammering stakes into the ground, to pouring tons of concrete. When the possibility (however slim) of Brian's remains being in the concrete comes up, I never do see an answer like "no concrete was actually poured in that timeframe".

Remains wouldn't be in, but under, any concrete, IMO. As to your bolded question, great question, don't know answer. Don't know exactly on what dates dogs went through (dogs not reliable, but that is a separate issue). But the construction site was active. Video made by local media in days after Brian went missing - shot from outside the building showing exterior of building showing building facade no where near completion and showing heavy equipment such as a scissor lift still in place inside the building - shows the Sunflower Market space was far from completion. Yet, by 9/13/06, around 160 days later, the store was open for business. So the site went from 'completely dug up' (Det. Hurst) to complete (the grocery component anyways) in 160 days. So the pace was fast. And to get from all dug up to complete, obviously dirt has to be moved and concrete has to be poured. Wouldn't surprise me one bit to learn that some dirt was moved, holes filled, and maybe even concrete poured before the site was searched for the missing Brian Shaffer.

Sure do wish that site would be searched again. Det. Hurst himself has surmised that Brian may well have entered the construction site. Had investigators somehow known then/contemporaneously that single incredible fact that we know now - that in the ensuing 12+ years there'd still be zero trace of Brian ever having so much as taken a single breath outside the building - perhaps the construction site would have been a more intense focal point, thoroughly scoured and re-scoured.

 

[XPh]

I am new to this case, probably has been discussed...any possibility he OD'd on something and he was found later on the premises and they covered it up? If he went out the back and it was treacherous don't understand how dogs didn't pick up on anything, it just screams liability/coverup unfortunately. That family has had such tragedy, feel so bad for his surviving brother

Just as you guessed, this has been discussed as a possibility. I think the prevailing thought is that if he were simply found on the premises as the victim of an OD, it is unlikely that the construction company (or whoever found him) would take on the additional liability of a covering up an accidental death. As many before me have pointed out, the liability would be on the company, not the individual workers who made the discovery, and it’s unlikely at best that individuals would decide to do something like that to avoid company liability—let alone pull it off so well.

I will say, though, that I’ve always felt some aspect of drug use fits well with Clint not wanting to talk (i.e., he doesn’t know exactly what happened to Brian, but he does know there was drug activity going on that night and doesn’t want to bring it up—or has been advised not to).

What I think is more likely is that it was an accident with drug use as a cause/contributor—his body was buried or otherwise concealed, and no one from the construction company particularly *wants* to find out the truth due to the liability that would come with it. So, sort of an indirect coverup. A coverup through lack of action.

 

[iluvmua]

I REALLY would like to see this solved.

Jmo