OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 April 2006 - #3

[pittsburghgirl]

I concur with your assessment. Me, I think #1 is the theory that is most likely ultimately to be proven accurate. I think #2 is highly unlikely. I'd note that perhaps #3 might be the theory that Tom Waggoner, the father of Brian's GF Alexis most strongly supports, because he is on record in 2006 having stated “The gist of my perspective on Clint Florence is that I think that basically all roads to making any progress on the case on Brian Shaffer lead through Clint Florence.” I'd like to know what Mr. Waggoner knew - other than Clint's perfectly reasonable hiring of a lawyer - that led him to make that statement, a statement that seems to suggest he either believed Clint was involved in Brian's disappearance or at least knew what went down on that morning of 4/1/06. Wonder if he still feels that way 12 years later. Perhaps he, like me, found it just a bit hinky that an OSU professor had OSU students - Clint and Meredith - house-sitting for him. Me, if I'm a professor, no way do I ever invite students to stay in my home. I'd note that according to Don Corbett (the private investigator hired by Randy Shaffer back when - listen to Comeback podcast episode #4), CPD's forensics unit 'processed' the professor's home, went through the professor's home with 'a fine toothed comb' looking for any evidence Brian may have been there. Curious. Also curious was LE's having queried Alexis as to whether perhaps Brian might have been bi/gay. What the heck is the theory LE was pursuing there.....?

These were not undergraduates. Clint was in medical school. It's common for professors to leave town for up to a year on sabbatical or a fellowship or a visiting appointment elsewhere. And it's common for them to have someone house-sit or to sublet the home. So nothing hinky there. But it's news to me that CPD had done forensic work on the place Clint and Meredith were staying. I agree with Mr. Waggoner that the road to finding out what happened to Brian goes through Clint.

 

[itsrak]

I agree with Mr. Waggoner that the road to finding out what happened to Brian goes through Clint.

Curious to know why you would think that. I don't know why Mr. Waggoner thought that, and I don't know why others do. After all, Det. Hurst himself observed that Clint, who had the good sense to hire a lawyer, was, as is typical, advised by his lawyer not to submit to a polygraph. What would theoretically have been Clint's motive to harm his friend Brian? I'd point out that investigator Corbett in the Comeback podcast was adamant in his belief that Brian did not use drugs and that Brian's financial records provided no hint of any drug activity. No inexplicable cash flow drain, no inexplicable bank deposits, just a med student racking up six figure debt on tuition, room, board.....

 

[neesaki]

Curious to know why you would think that. I don't know why Mr. Waggoner thought that, and I don't know why others do. After all, Det. Hurst himself observed that Clint, who had the good sense to hire a lawyer, was, as is typical, advised by his lawyer not to submit to a polygraph. What would theoretically have been Clint's motive to harm his friend Brian. I'd point out that investigator Corbett in the Comeback podcast was adamant that Brian did not use drugs and that Brian's financial records provided no hint of any drug activity.

Just guessing, these people know something..... not only about Clint and his personality and history, but also about his relationship with Brian, etc........ that we do not know.
If you’ve noticed, not only Mr. Waggoner is of this opinion, but it’s also the opinion of Brian’s brother, his deceased father, as well as his then girlfriend, which was Mr. Waggoners daughter. They have all said basically the same thing. These are all rather intelligent people, and they knew him.
I don’t know about you, but personally, I have to give these people some credit.

 

[itsrak]

Just guessing, these people know something..... not only about Clint and his personality and history, but also about his relationship with Brian, etc........ that we do not know.
If you’ve noticed, not only Mr. Waggoner is of this opinion, but it’s also the opinion of Brian’s brother, his deceased father, as well as his then girlfriend, which was Mr. Waggoners daughter. They have all said basically the same thing. These are all rather intelligent people, and they knew him.
I don’t know about you, but personally, I have to give these people some credit.

Well, that's a good point. But, they won't say WHY they think Clint knows something...what's THE BIG SECRET?! Why do they think Clint knows something, but they won't say why they think that...? Seems hugely unfair to Clint to accuse him of knowing something or being somehow involved, but to refuse to say why you think that... And the fact that Clint, after he had - as Hurst himself noted - cooperated and shared what he knew with LE, did the prudent thing and put a lawyer between himself and LE and the media, simply is in and of itself not in any way incriminating.

 

[neesaki]

Well, that's a good point. But, they won't say WHY they think Clint knows something...what's THE BIG SECRET?! Why do they think Clint knows something, but they won't say why they think that...?

I know what you mean, I wish they would say why as well.
A possible explanation is the slander and libel issue , which could be a very real legal problem if they have no real, physical proof. I’m quite sure they all had legal advice on what they should say, and how not to say it, if you know what I mean.
Maybe all they knew was, for example, there was contention between them, maybe jealousy, rivalry, etc.... could have there been threats? BTW, Wasn’t ther a history of physical violence involving Clint and Brian? Please refresh or correct my memory , and TIA.

Speaking of which, I’ve always wondered why Brian went out with Clint that night in the first place. I don’t think they were really good friends. And then, what’s her name (?). just showed up. The more I think about it, I think something hinky was going on that night, yeah, that’s just my Opinion.

You know sometimes we know things without physical proof, it could have been things Brian told them about events that had transpired, and / or things they witnessed that they have no physical proof of.
Sure would be great to hear from a verified insider in this case wouldn’t it?!

 

[Kaie]

Also curious was LE's having queried Alexis as to whether perhaps Brian might have been bi/gay. What the heck is the theory LE was pursuing there.....?

It would probably just be to establish whether or not Brian had any kind of double life. If he did, he could have made a decision to run from one of those lives, and to the other.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I don't think Brian had a double life. He was a med student; he was engaged. Where was the time for a double life? If by that people mean he might have been gay, I suppose that's possible, though I would think that if he were gay, he would have had some contact with the gay community and someone there would have care enough about him to tell his father and/or the authorities to give them the information. So I tend to discount that possibility.

That's not to say that we know all there is to know about Brian.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

It has been said that there was some jealously between Clint and Brian (notably from Clint's end) and that a previous assault that was committed against Brian at a party Brian had suspected Clint of setting him up for. Alexis didn't seem to be fond of Clint either and apparently encouraged Brian to not socialise with him. Then we have Clint and Meredith being so quick to leave Brian behind after apparently losing sight of him (some 9 minutes?) and then add in him lawyering up and requesting immunity before telling all he knows (apparently) and being so quick to move on and seemingly not help AT ALL with the searches for Brian then I have become pretty damn convinced that he was the catalyst to what happened to Brian that night. I don't think by his own hands. But I very much suspect that he did as the coward had been suspected of doing before- hired some thugs to do his dirty work for him. Except this time, just as those psychic kids said, things went 'too far' and Brian ended up dying.

Meredith I think has been a factor also. I wonder why it was only apparently a week or so before that night that she tried it on with Brian? Was that via her own volition? Or was she somehow egged on by her 'friend' Clint who perhaps wanted to ruin Brian's life in any way possible, including causing him to break up with Alexis had he taken the bait and cheated on her?

I feel sure that Brian was coaxed back into that club by Clint who had a plan for him to get beaten up, and once Clint was sure Brian was where he was supposed to be he left. Left him to what actually turned out to be his death. How, by whom, or even where the body is right now I do not know. All I do know is that Clint DOES hold the answers to this, and Meredith is a female that knows more than she's saying.

This post has stayed in my thoughts since I first read it. Note your first line begins "It has been said that...". I've scoured the internet and can't find this information anywhere. So--who has said that Clint was jealous of Brian? I'm not challenging this at all. If Clint set Brian up for some assault, if Meredith hit on him, it's odd that he would be out partying with them. Not impossible. Just odd. But if there was some blood, that means we can't necessarily rely on anything they say. But how do we know these things happened?

 

[Kaie]

I don't think Brian had a double life. He was a med student; he was engaged. Where was the time for a double life? If by that people mean he might have been gay, I suppose that's possible, though I would think that if he were gay, he would have had some contact with the gay community and someone there would have care enough about him to tell his father and/or the authorities to give them the information. So I tend to discount that possibility.

That's not to say that we know all there is to know about Brian.

I didn't actually mean to sound like I am speculating on that point now... just explaining why LE had to pursue it back then. There's a few different types of double life a person could be leading, and that's definitely on the list. As for how sure I am that that's not the case for Brian... not 100%, but close to it.

I wouldn't discount the possibility of anyone doing anything based of whether you think they'd have time or not though. I bet Brian worked really hard in med school, and to get there in the first place... regardless of where you see yourself in the future, you don't just sail on in to med school. But I have hung out with med students myself, and they can be a riot out on the town (I mean it in the best possible way lol). And the ones I've known have been final year students... working hard and feeling time poor most of the time, but still able to make time for nightclubbing and the hangover that follows. If you can do that, you can make time for just about anything.

The idea that med students just study-sleep-repeat the whole time they're at university, is more of a stereotype than anything.

 

[itsrak]

This post has stayed in my thoughts since I first read it. Note your first line begins "It has been said that...". I've scoured the internet and can't find this information anywhere. So--who has said that Clint was jealous of Brian? I'm not challenging this at all. If Clint set Brian up for some assault, if Meredith hit on him, it's odd that he would be out partying with them. Not impossible. Just odd. But if there was some blood, that means we can't necessarily rely on anything they say. But how do we know these things happened?

Spot on. I've read every word written that I can find on all things Brian Shaffer, would love to see a link to anything detailing any purported contentiousness/animus/etc between Clint and Brian.

 

[XPh]

These were not undergraduates. Clint was in medical school. It's common for professors to leave town for up to a year on sabbatical or a fellowship or a visiting appointment elsewhere. And it's common for them to have someone house-sit or to sublet the home. So nothing hinky there. But it's news to me that CPD had done forensic work on the place Clint and Meredith were staying. I agree with Mr. Waggoner that the road to finding out what happened to Brian goes through Clint.

Just my $0.02 on this:

I am a professor at OSU, and I teach graduate/professional students (that is one of many reasons I’ve become so interested in this case - it hits close to home). I don’t want to say what department I am in, because I’d prefer to remain a little bit more anonymous, but I will say it’s not the med school. Regardless, I can say with certainty that neither I nor any of my colleagues would be comfortable having a student over to our house to house-sit. This is something I’d consider pretty inappropriate.

So, ever since I’ve learned about that situation, it’s given me pause. It strikes me as very unusual. And the fact that the police basically treated the professor’s house as a crime scene confirms to me that it’s odd and suspicious. The first time I ever heard this mentioned was on the comeback podcast, and I couldn’t figure out why it wasn’t talked about more.

I don’t know what it could mean, I just know something about it seems odd to me.

I still think accidental/hidden accident theory is most likely, but this is the one piece of information that makes me think twice.

 

[itsrak]

I still think accidental/hidden accident theory is most likely, but this is the one piece of information that makes me think twice.

FWIW, I am in the exact same place.

 

[itsrak]

For those who've not listened to the Don Corbett (investigator hired by Brian's dad) podcast interview done last year, this link makes it easy. Gets interesting around 21 minutes in, and after 27:30 minutes in is where CPD's 'crime scene unit's' processing of the professor's house - and Brian's, Clint's and Meredith's cars - is revealed by Corbett...

https://s137.podbean.com/pb/cbe5ce6...m4a?pbss=ed713cb6-6140-57db-922d-55f495c6f515

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I didn't actually mean to sound like I am speculating on that point now... just explaining why LE had to pursue it back then. There's a few different types of double life a person could be leading, and that's definitely on the list. As for how sure I am that that's not the case for Brian... not 100%, but close to it.

I wouldn't discount the possibility of anyone doing anything based of whether you think they'd have time or not though. I bet Brian worked really hard in med school, and to get there in the first place... regardless of where you see yourself in the future, you don't just sail on in to med school. But I have hung out with med students myself, and they can be a riot out on the town (I mean it in the best possible way lol). And the ones I've known have been final year students... working hard and feeling time poor most of the time, but still able to make time for nightclubbing and the hangover that follows. If you can do that, you can make time for just about anything.

The idea that med students just study-sleep-repeat the whole time they're at university, is more of a stereotype than anything.

I'm not suggesting tudy-sleep-repeat. I'm suggesting that if someone is in med school, engaged, and has a mother dying of cancer, there's is not a lot of time for a "double life." That doesn't mean the person doesn't have a family or a social life. It doesn't mean that a person won't cheat on a partner. The term "double life" presupposes the time to have a life that is just presentation while carrying on a parallel life, with time for emotional engagement and social life.

 

[Kaie]

I'm not suggesting tudy-sleep-repeat. I'm suggesting that if someone is in med school, engaged, and has a mother dying of cancer, there's is not a lot of time for a "double life." That doesn't mean the person doesn't have a family or a social life. It doesn't mean that a person won't cheat on a partner. The term "double life" presupposes the time to have a life that is just presentation while carrying on a parallel life, with time for emotional engagement and social life.

I think you might be taking the term "double life" a little too literally... it's not a term with a rigid definition. A person could be gay, and in the closet, with the pretence of a straight relationship (even if they love that person dearly, and are only slowly realising it's not romantic love)... when the reality of who they are and the life they want is an entirely different scenario... regardless of their current family issues, or university major, or really anything else. I imagine that when you start to allow your true self, and true relationships to happen, while still keeping up the facade... it wouldn't matter whether your time was divided between these two scenarios 50/50, 70/30 or 90/10... you would feel that you are leading a double life, and the day would come when you just can't do it anymore.
Of course no one has time for two complete lives, with full time and attention paid to every aspect of both... hence the need to bite the bullet, shoot through, and live the life they want 24/7.

 

[Ozoner]

Just guessing, these people know something..... not only about Clint and his personality and history, but also about his relationship with Brian, etc........ that we do not know.
If you’ve noticed, not only Mr. Waggoner is of this opinion, but it’s also the opinion of Brian’s brother, his deceased father, as well as his then girlfriend, which was Mr. Waggoners daughter. They have all said basically the same thing. These are all rather intelligent people, and they knew him.
I don’t know about you, but personally, I have to give these people some credit.

I have to disagree; their closeness to the case may have compromised their objectivity. I've had my suspicions of Clint at times, but I now doubt his involvement. The people that you mentioned

I am a professor at OSU, and I teach graduate/professional students (that is one of many reasons I’ve become so interested in this case - it hits close to home). I don’t want to say what department I am in, because I’d prefer to remain a little bit more anonymous, but I will say it’s not the med school. Regardless, I can say with certainty that neither I nor any of my colleagues would be comfortable having a student over to our house to house-sit. This is something I’d consider pretty inappropriate.

Snipped.

I wouldn't see a set up like that as inappropriate unless the students were currently enrolled in one of the professor's classes, which wouldn't have been the case if he was on sabbatical. Every college has its own culture, but at the colleges I attended professors did socialize with their grad students from time to time. Police tend to be suspicious of everything—they even harass people for bird watching now—but we haven't seen any evidence that the professor was engaged in criminal activity.

 

[itsrak]

I have to disagree; their closeness to the case may have compromised their objectivity. I've had my suspicions of Clint at times, but I now doubt his involvement. The people that you mentioned


Snipped.

I wouldn't see a set up like that as inappropriate unless the students were currently enrolled in one of the professor's classes, which wouldn't have been the case if he was on sabbatical. Every college has its own culture, but at the colleges I attended professors did socialize with their grad students from time to time. Police tend to be suspicious of everything—they even harass people for bird watching now—but we haven't seen any evidence that the professor was engaged in criminal activity.

I'm with the Prof. on this one, I think it is inappropriate. But then, I had a prof in grad school who partied with us students, and I once observed him dropping off a female student at an 8am exam... But back to the Shaffer case, the cops looked into it and apparently found no reason to think the Prof's. home or the 3 cars are linked with Brian's disappearance. Besides, there's no evidence Brian ever left the building. Yet, Mr. Waggoner seemed to strongly believe Clint knows what went down. But we don't know why he held that opinion. Would have been nice to have Comeback podcast interview him, and Brian's bro, and Alexis....... Kudos to them for what they've done so far.

Here's another link to the podcast:
Listen to ComeBack - A True Crime Podcast

 

[Kaie]

I have to disagree; their closeness to the case may have compromised their objectivity. I've had my suspicions of Clint at times, but I now doubt his involvement.

Yes, they'd be intelligent and objective people... but when your loved one goes missing, and the last person who saw them alive lawyers up and refuses to speak further on the topic... you're going to have a human response to that. None of them would trust Clint as far as they could throw a train now... it's more than understandable under their circumstances. But if I were in Clint's shoes, I would have gotten a lawyer too, at the same point he did. After he'd told them everything he knows, and his car had been searched (and fair enough), and they're still pressing him for more information... when he had no more, and you just can't get blood out of a stone, he needed a lawyer.

Clint usually only gets quoted for the few things he has said that can be spun a negative way, and even then, it only sounds that way if you really want to see it... (I've seen the footage of Clint's comments, and I don't think he was intending to be negative). Everyone knows Clint said "Brian was doing his usual thing and was talking to those two girls". But he has also stated that he regrets leaving the bar that night, a statement that isn't put forward so much at all... he was trying to explain that all of it was just so typical for Brian (a bit of a wanderer when they're out on the town), and the fact that he couldn't be found at the end of the night didn't set off any alarm bells.

They were probably typical college/drinking buddies, partners in crime (figuratively!), in the habit of busting on each other so much that that's how they were always going to sound if one had to describe the other. I mean check out Clint's last comment on Brian's Myspace page, and if you think that sounds a bit "off", or "uncouth", and reflects badly on Clint's character... also look at the quote Brian those for his bio in the top lefthand corner.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

I'm a professor. Lots of student babysit, do yard work, house sit, etc. Students today are hard up against money realities and often have to work to meet tuition and expenses. What matters is that the person with authority pay going rate and respect the student's time and space. In addition, there should always be an adult 3rd party present in a home setting to protect both parties. And this should not go on if students are in the line of authority or in the professor's class. Students at my college often hand out flyers in attempts to get such work. A student does my boss the nun's grass cutting in the summer. Not a thing wrong with that, so long as the character of both people involved is good and what's going on is transparent and above board. The idea is to avoid sexual harassment or assault, false accusations about the same, financial exploitation, favoritism or hanky panky with grades. It's also about avoiding the appearance of these things.

 

[itsrak]

Anyone know the identity of the OSU professor who was hosting Clint and Meredith the night Brian went missing, and whose home was - according to investigator Don Corbett - subsequently processed by CPD as a potential crime scene? In other words, was the professor's name ever 'out there', his/her identity public?