OH OH - Brian Shaffer, 27, Columbus, 1 April 2006 - #3

[jtfolden]

It seems there are no images of the construction area. There are a few shots from outside, linked previously. The lead detective in the case, Sgt. Hurst, last year described the construction area - which he surmises Brian may well have entered - as having been 'dug up'. But no. He actually said 'completely dug up' (you can listen to the podcast in which he made that statement last year - there is no denying it). Who ya gonna believe on that point, the lead detective, who was there, or some web sleuths 13 years later? Me, I'll take Straight From the Horse's Mouth for $1000 Alex.

Oh I'm not denying he said it. He also said that was the way he most likely exited the building, as well. So do you take his entire statement at his word or do you disagree with part of it?

However, "dug up" is rather ambiguous. Yes, that could mean huge holes everywhere or just that it didn't have a finished floor. So there are no pics. Was there any statement by ANYONE describing that area in a tangible way that mentioned trenches or huge body swallowing holes? If not, that seems pretty telling.

The entire structure was already built so what would the huge trenches or holes be for?

If there were these huge trenches or holes and one collapsed - they'd have to dig it out again, right?

Employees and other people in the building frequently accessed this area, correct? Both before and after Brian's disappearance, daily.

Police began searching UTS and all areas around it approx noon, the following Monday after his disappearance. So, it was searched numerous times by law enforcement and his father, beginning almost immediately.

So, no matter the state of the construction area, a countless number of people were all over the area in the days after Brian's disappearance.

On top of that, are there any statements from anyone directly involved in the investigation, LE or family, that ever suggested the possibility of Brian being under concrete or that concrete had even been poured while they were in the midst of searching for him? ...or was that a theory only presented by sleuths on the internet?

 

[jtfolden]

I'm not aware that it has been confirmed that e-Cycle was located in Hilliard in 2005.

No I don't think it has... yet. That's just an idea though. Someone else could have easily had the phone in Hilliard.

As to pinging, Sgt. Hurst addressed that in podcast that Brian's number rang, rather than going straight to VM, 'on several occasions'. Sgt. Hurst seemed comfortable with Cingular's conclusion that a glitch may have been the cause.

The ringing could have been a glitch if it was on its own, sure... but how does his phone specifically ping off a tower in Hilliard if it wasn't turned on in the area? I've been in the computer and electronics industry since the early 1990's. Although flip phones of the era, let alone cell towers, are not my specialty; having a phone that was both ringing AND pinging off a cell tower just 14 miles away at the same time doesn't sound like a situation that could be created by a glitch. If someone has a technical way to explain that while the phone is "dead and buried", I would LOVE to hear it.

In a prior post you disagree with Hurst that Brian "most likely" exited out of the construction area. I disagree that the phone ping "may" have been a glitch.

 

[jtfolden]

And when I re-listened to the voicemail that Brian left Alexis that night, even though she said he sounded fine when she called him back... he didn't sound 100% fine to me. The voicemail sounded a little "final" for a message to a girlfriend you're going to be talking to again the next day.

Where can I currently listen to this voicemail?

 

[dotr]

Where can I currently listen to this voicemail?

 

[jtfolden]

Awesome, thanks!

Every time I see that video footage from 1:55am I always think about the two cops on duty there, as well. Have we ever seen public statements from them? They're essentially watching everyone come to / leave the bar. At one point one of them even seems to Look in the direction of Brian, Brighton, and Amber. Surely, if anyone were to walk off in another direction (as opposed to going down the escalator) they would have noticed?

 

[itsrak]

No I don't think it has... yet. That's just an idea though. Someone else could have easily had the phone in Hilliard.



The ringing could have been a glitch if it was on its own, sure... but how does his phone specifically ping off a tower in Hilliard if it wasn't turned on in the area? I've been in the computer and electronics industry since the early 1990's. Although flip phones of the era, let alone cell towers, are not my specialty; having a phone that was both ringing AND pinging off a cell tower just 14 miles away at the same time doesn't sound like a situation that could be created by a glitch. If someone has a technical way to explain that while the phone is "dead and buried", I would LOVE to hear it.

In a prior post you disagree with Hurst that Brian "most likely" exited out of the construction area. I disagree that the phone ping "may" have been a glitch.

I'm not a techie. Cingular seemed to conclude it may have been, could have been, a glitch. They know way more than me, so I accept that. If any party on Earth would have known, it would have been Cingular contemporaneously. We'll probably never know. But to me, as a clue the seeming ringing of a phone # some months later pales in comparative magnitude to another clue, radio silence from Brian Shaffer from 1am on 4/1/06. I think some tend to imbue the former with undue significance out of a desire to believe Brian may be alive, and discount the later out of a wish that Brian not be deceased.

 

[itsrak]

"And when I re-listened to the voicemail that Brian left Alexis that night, even though she said he sounded fine when she called him back... he didn't sound 100% fine to me. The voicemail sounded a little "final" for a message to a girlfriend you're going to be talking to again the next day."
​

To me, that call sounded perfunctory. As in, get it out of the way, then back to partying.​

 

[jtfolden]

I'm not a techie. Cingular seemed to conclude it may have been, could have been, a glitch. They know way more than me, so I accept that. We'll probably never know.

This is the problem. Every comment about it seems to come in the form of, not just an either/or but, a guess. It *could* be a glitch or the phone *could* have been turned on. It sounds like it was never actually investigated (or no one is saying and if so, why?) or even Cingular could not state with certainty what the answer was.

Even Hurst's statements about the glitch seem to address the ringing - there is talk that if there is a lot of cell traffic in the area that the caller's phone might 'bounce' to the next tower - It seems logical that in the extra time it takes to communicate and make a connection with a tower out of your area that the phone *could* ring... but that would seem to apply only to one caller's phone. It's stated Alexis called Brian's dad and the police. Surely they tried calling it, as well... but we don't have any comment stating that while it was ringing for Alexis it was just going to voicemail for everyone else... what we are told is that it was ringing for several hours.

This also doesn't address the pinging of Brian's cell phone at all. Nothing said by anyone so far explains that away.

She's stated she called it every day, sometimes multiple times I think, for over a year. Out of the hundreds and hundreds of times she called the number it was only on September 23, 2006 that it both rang AND that his phone pinged a tower.

But to me, as a clue the seeming ringing of a phone # some months later pales in comparative magnitude to another clue, radio silence from Brian Shaffer from 1am on 4/1/06. I think some tend to imbue the former with undue significance out of a desire to believe Brian may be alive, and discount the later out of a wish that Brian not be deceased.

Not for me, as I mentioned earlier the fact his cell phone was turned on doesn't add weight to whether he is alive or dead. It DOES, however, place his cell phone outside the bar.

 

[jtfolden]

"And when I re-listened to the voicemail that Brian left Alexis that night, even though she said he sounded fine when she called him back... he didn't sound 100% fine to me. The voicemail sounded a little "final" for a message to a girlfriend you're going to be talking to again the next day."
​

To me, that call sounded perfunctory. As in, get it out of the way, then back to partying.​

I actually thought it sounded oddly mushy but not "final". Was he in the habit of leaving her mushy VM's though? That would provide more context as to whether it was out of the ordinary.

 

[Stella]

It's possible I suppose, that wires got crossed as far as Brian's phone went. This was the age before smartphones. I had one of those Cingular flip phones back then and they would occasionally do all sorts of weird things. Dead air, flipping the phone open only to find someone talking to someone else like an old fashion party line, funny noises. Would it really be a stretch for his phone to ping at another location, just that once?

 

[Stella]

I actually thought it sounded oddly mushy but not "final". Was he in the habit of leaving her mushy VM's though? That would provide more context as to whether it was out of the ordinary.

I listened to it on YT, his voice sounded sad to me. Tired, resigned. I think he was in the habit of saying nice things like that, calling her beautiful, etc.

 

[jtfolden]

Would it really be a stretch for his phone to ping at another location, just that once?

Yeah, I think it is a stretch.

I've heard the "wires crossed" theory before and here's my problem with it...

Let's say there was a glitch and Alexis was calling and, incorrectly, being connected to another phone account... She, among others, are calling repeatedly for several hours - wouldn't you answer your phone if it was blowing up with calls trying to reach another number? Even if not, it eventually went to voicemail. Wouldn't Alexis know if it was his vm greeting vs someone else's?

...but this would be two different glitches happening at the same time because wires being crossed and calling someone else is entirely different than his phone actually pinging (communicating) with a cell tower 14 miles away... And I don't think we know for how long the phone was pinging that tower either. Did it happen once or was it communicating that whole time (the several hours it was ringing).

 

[itsrak]

Not for me, as I mentioned earlier the fact his cell phone was turned on ... It DOES, however, place his cell phone outside the bar.

Gotta disagree. The ring tone Alexis says she heard and/or the apparent ping may place his cellphone near Hilliard tower. Then again, it may not.

 

[itsrak]

It's possible I suppose, that wires got crossed as far as Brian's phone went. This was the age before smartphones. I had one of those Cingular flip phones back then and they would occasionally do all sorts of weird things. Dead air, flipping the phone open only to find someone talking to someone else like an old fashion party line, funny noises. Would it really be a stretch for his phone to ping at another location, just that once?

I used to sometimes hear other people's conversations on my Cingular phone in the early 2000s. Glitch city.

 

[jtfolden]

Gotta disagree. The ring tone Alexis says she heard and/or the apparent ping may place his cellphone near Hilliard tower. Then again, it may not.

Like I said in the same post you quoted... The problem is that it doesn't seem to have been heavily investigated.

The record apparently shows that it was pinging... Cingular was noncommittal either way but yet there's no real data to discount it. No one can even say how a glitch could produce a ping from a phone if it wasn't turned on.

 

[itsrak]

Oh I'm not denying he said it. He also said that was the way he most likely exited the building, as well. So do you take his entire statement at his word or do you disagree with part of it? As I've observed many times on this thread, I am speculating that Sgt Hurst is wrong about Brian having made it out (what else could he say, the he thinks Brian may still be in there, which would mean LE blew it), mainly because there isn't a shred of solid evidence he exited the building, and if he didn't exit, then the construction area is most likely.

However, "dug up" is rather ambiguous. Yes, that could mean huge holes everywhere or just that it didn't have a finished floor. So there are no pics. Was there any statement by ANYONE describing that area in a tangible way that mentioned trenches or huge body swallowing holes? If not, that seems pretty telling. I take Sgt. Hurst's completely dug up literally. Completely. Dug. Up. That means holes where the dirt came from, and piles. Sgt. Hurst, was it not really completely dug up?

The entire structure was already built so what would the huge trenches or holes be for? I don't know. My best guess as to why it was completely dug up at the time Brian is surmised to have entered it would be that the developer/owner - OSU - had anticipated office tenants rather than a grocery store tenant, and the grocery user (Sunflower Market) may have required upgraded/rerouted utilities perhaps including water/sewer.

If there were these huge trenches or holes and one collapsed - they'd have to dig it out again, right? Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe partial. Maybe at point they were ready to back-fill.

Employees and other people in the building frequently accessed this area, correct? Both before and after Brian's disappearance, daily. As I recently noted elsewhere, Sgt. Hurst stated in 2018 that the plywood doors were chained, but that someone might be able to slip through. Doesn't sound to me like the completely dug up area and difficult area was in regular use. I don't think you can find a link for that.

Police began searching UTS and all areas around it approx noon, the following Monday after his disappearance. So, it was searched numerous times by law enforcement and his father, beginning almost immediately. That is my understanding. They'd have been in there not long after construction workers would presumably have returned first thing Monday.

So, no matter the state of the construction area, a countless number of people were all over the area in the days after Brian's disappearance. That is my understanding. Apparently they ran dogs through there more than once because they thought Brian may have been in there in that completely dug up area, which due to its having been completely dug up would have understandably have been a focal point vs. other parts of the building. And he may have been. And, in light of the fact there's not been a shred of evidence of him outside the building for 13 years, still may be, IMO. Only one person who entered the building that evening was not caught on video exiting. Coincidentally, that person disappeared the eve/morn, never seen again or any sign of life for 13 years. Also coincidentally, there happened to be in that building a construction area. Completely dug up. The lead detective thinks the missing guy could have slipped in, and may have done so. But they failed to find him there....

On top of that, are there any statements from anyone directly involved in the investigation, LE or family, that ever suggested the possibility of Brian being under concrete or that concrete had even been poured while they were in the midst of searching for him? ...or was that a theory only presented by sleuths on the internet? As I've noted previously, if the area was in fact completely dug up, then concrete had to have subsequently been poured prior to stores opening. Dirt back in, holes/trenches paved. No other way, gotta have a concrete floor. Perhaps concrete poured after they searched. Perhaps Brian was laying there under inches of dirt that may have eroded in after him in a stumble/fall. Appreciate the devil's advocacy, it has all been advocated and re-advocated previously here, but everyone can't read the entire thread, I get that. There's only one spot on the planet that could today be searched with even a tiny chance of finding Brian - the building where he was last seen. Sgt. Hurst thinks he may have entered the construction area. So do I. Sgt. Hurst thinks he made it out. 13 years radio silence suggest he did not.

 

[itsrak]

Like I said in the same post you quoted... The problem is that it doesn't seem to have been heavily investigated.

The record apparently shows that it was pinging... Cingular was noncommittal either way but yet there's no real data to discount it. No one can even say how a glitch could produce a ping from a phone if it wasn't turned on.

Yeah, just another frustratingly inconclusive factoid in relation to this frustratingly inconclusive case.

Perhaps Brian's phone was in Hilliard months after Brian went missing. Perhaps his phone started going straight to VM just minutes after he was last seen because he turned it off in conjunction with activating a secret scheme to disappear to a new life. Or perhaps his phone is on his body under the building where he was last seen. Perhaps it started going straight to VM just minutes after he was last seen because it was suddenly under a foot or two of signal-blocking fill at the bottom of a trench.

Something unbelievable happened that morn. It is inconceivable that Brian died in a trench collapse that morn, and searchers and their dogs missed him. Right? It is even more inconceivable that he in a drunken state suddenly activated a plan, dumped everything and everyone and ran off to a new life, evading detection that morn and continuously over the ensuing 13+ years. IMO.

 

[KR14]

The fact that staff was using the area to take out trash was stated in the Comeback Podcast. I really wish we could get clarification from Hurst on the state of the construction site. Completely dug up to me does not necessarily mean trenches with piles of dirt, but it’s all opinion at this point.

 

[Kaie]

Actually, that's not the voicemail I'm referring to where I thought he sounded a bit off.

I'll see if I can find it.

 

[dotr]

April 1 2016 " Moving on"