GUILTY OH - Elaina Steinfurth, 17 months, Toledo, 2 Jun 2013 - #6

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Perhaps, in light of the ongoing conversation regarding the child abuse, other people would be interested in the proposed Daniel Pelka law. I'm reading in bits and pieces--crying too much.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09/15/daniel-pelka-law-petition_n_3929287.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Even if the adults who see a child being treated poorly are not mandated reporters of child abuse, they have the moral responsibility to step in and make the call to a hotline like 855-O-H-CHILD. So sad that a possible reason AS and SK didn't take the baby to a doctor is that the medical professionals would have had CPS involved in a heartbeat, and TJ would have had firmer grounds for primary custody. And more reason to keep AS away from the girls.
 
LE may not have done everything correctly in this case but a least elaina is home and justice will be served! I think AS & SK are both talking,so if JK was involved or had knowledge she will go down with the rest of them. I'am not sure who murdered elaina, but I believe it was SK who hid her body & I don't think AS knew where! I believe that's why them searches took place in the beginning of the investigation because AS was trying too cut herself a deal. That's why LE didn't arrest SK even though he had warrants, AS told them that he hid her body somewhere she just didn't know where. LE was hoping he would lead them too it so they didn't have too cut a deal with him. What they didn't factor in was how much this little girl's daddy wanted her home! I believe all the prayer vigils, marches, & support for elaina was what brought her home! IMOO of course....
 
BBM Juvenile offenders of sexual assault have often experienenced a warping of their sexuality and morals regarding sexuality. This is absolutely true.

However, we are NOT discussing a juvenile here - we are speaking of an adult - an adult who has had opportunities and chances to learn and grow and change.
Again, I am not excusing anyone's behavior. Young people become adults, and if they haven't dealt with their issues, these issues will remain into adulthood. I have worked with said juveniles' parents as well.

I'm finding it really hard to bite my tongue here, but I will. For Elaina, for the sake of this thread. But not every individual who perpetrates abuse is either a sociopath or a victim. Most are insecure individuals who lack other skills to rationally work through issues and resort to physical and mental dominance to retain power.
I NEVER said every individual who perpetrates abuse is a sociopath or a victim. I said MOST which is not the same thing. Why would a person grow up to be an insecure individual? Why would someone grow up without learning skills to rationally work through issues, and think that dominance is the answer? Because that's what they learned! If you grow up in a healthy family, where you feel secure, learn skills, and don't have your power stripped from you, then you are less likely to do and become what you described.
It is not at all "healing" in adults at least to hear a person say, when finding out about abuse that they always wondered whether the perpetrator was abused. It totally undermines the healing done to date, places a rationalisation where there should be indignation, and makes the victim question themselves.
I'm curious of your experience. It helped me, and has helped many in my presence. A major part of healing is understanding and forgiving, not indignation. I am a little offended that you can generalize about me, while blaming me for generalizing.
Many of the generalisations you have posted are the precise reason why I posted initially. And I understand they extend from your professional experience with juveniles. But we're not talking about the 11 year old boy molesting his young sister because he was made to watch his parents have sex for years. Were talking about an adult who has otherwise been functioning enough to raise one child through the early years.
See Transactional analysis
By all means, postulate theories on the RS /AS dynamic. On what RS may truly be trying to cover for throughout all this. But don't make claims of absolute where there are no tangible links or data to back it up.
The closest thing I said was that the likelihood of someone who was not sexually abused becoming sexually abusive are close to zero. Close does not mean absolute all. This is based on years of education, research, experience, and every single scholarly writing and training I have seen on the subject. But there is always room for human difference, which is why I said close.
There is a high correlation in psychological research on perpetrators of abuse having experienced it themselves. It's far from 100% as you have claimed and the authors of the studies acknowledge the chances of distortion in the data due to the vested interest in making such a claim (ie leniency in legal matters). Please show me where I said 100% In the study of psychology, there is always room for human differences. Please show me so I can correct it because I tried really, really hard to be mindful to always leave room for that/ differences/ exception.

Please see my responses in bold.
I would rather have this post removed than to have an argument on this thread, so moderators please do so if people don't want for me to share what I know and have to offer.
Thanks
 
Perhaps, in light of the ongoing conversation regarding the child abuse, other people would be interested in the proposed Daniel Pelka law. I'm reading in bits and pieces--crying too much.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09/15/daniel-pelka-law-petition_n_3929287.html?utm_hp_ref=uk

Even if the adults who see a child being treated poorly are not mandated reporters of child abuse, they have the moral responsibility to step in and make the call to a hotline like 855-O-H-CHILD. So sad that a possible reason AS and SK didn't take the baby to a doctor is that the medical professionals would have had CPS involved in a heartbeat, and TJ would have had firmer grounds for primary custody. And more reason to keep AS away from the girls.

:goodpost:

BBM-I believe that any adult who knows that a child is being abused has a moral obligation to report.
 
~Respectfully snipped and bolded by me~

Do you have any links to back up these assertions?

Thanks,

Salem

No. All of my research articles, books, papers, etc are in my office, not at home. My research in undergrad, grad and post grad work was done via professional journals primarily, and I have never had any luck finding them easily accessible on the internet.
Honestly, if you are really serious about wanting the info, I could try to find a few minutes tomorrow to find things for you. If you are just needing me to prove that I know what I am talking about, then just take the post down. I have believed what a lot of sleuthers have said on here without needing proof of the basis of their knowledge, and maybe I am naive to do so? I am just trying to be helpful by adding my 2 cents when I actually know something to share. If it's not helpful, then please remove it and accept my apology.
 
The only abuse I'm aware of is physical. Do you know something we don't, with links to support it? TIA.:seeya:

I haven't found out anything more than what you are aware of. I was just talking hypothetically as well as trying to share my belief that it can be helpful sometimes to be aware of abuse history. And that we can discuss that history without it automatically meaning that we think it should or could excuse someone's hurtful behaviors.
 
If anyone has any valid and reliable data that contradicts my earlier assertions regarding abuse, then please share them with me. I am being sincere. It is imperative that I am knowledgeable in these matters, and if new evidence has emerged since my latest trainings and classes, then I really need to know about it. Thanks in advance.

Also, to all those who seem to have been offended by that post, I am very sorry. I am not on here for drama or to cause anyone to suffer. I am on here to try and help.

Let me know if you would like any insights or information about mental health through a private message. Guess I'm drawing up a new boundary for myself on here, peace!

And Sweet Elaina, I will keep checking on you baby girl. I know justice is already in process! Sending love to your family!
 
I do not buy the part about smoking in the house as the reason why she did not stay there, yes I believe that her step father did not want smoking in the house but she could have gone out side and had a cigarette in his backyard
or in the front away from the front door, so it was not blowing inside, she needed and wanted drugs, that is the bottom line, and then everything fell apart, we still do not know exactly how the little girl died, but I do know, or at least I think I know from some kind of neglect. Whether she was shaken, hit, thrown, something caused her death by either her mother or SK, and the mother just covered it up, I am referring to Julie.

I never thought for a minute that AS would leave there due to no smoking, but I thought at the time, that sister was NOT defending AS, while step-dad was. I think AS used that as an excuse to leave so she could hang out with drugheads or whatever they did. I have not decided who killed this child, but I think it's very sick to still keep lying now! I agree with you.
 
If anyone has any valid and reliable data that contradicts my earlier assertions regarding abuse, then please share them with me. I am being sincere. It is imperative that I am knowledgeable in these matters, and if new evidence has emerged since my latest trainings and classes, then I really need to know about it. Thanks in advance.

Also, to all those who seem to have been offended by that post, I am very sorry. I am not on here for drama or to cause anyone to suffer. I am on here to try and help.

Let me know if you would like any insights or information about mental health through a private message. Guess I'm drawing up a new boundary for myself on here, peace!

And Sweet Elaina, I will keep checking on you baby girl. I know justice is already in process! Sending love to your family!

I know that some people have trauma in their young lives and grow up to inflict pain on others. I know what some people have that same trauma or worse, and would never hurt anyone. There are others who are never abused who grow up to do horrible things, and others don't. I don't think there's a rhyme or reason to it. Some people are evil, some are troubled. It never really matters to me which it is, the punishment needs to be the same. I also think people can be fine and then get into a bad lifetyle, and start with drugs and lose their minds and no longer care about people in their lives. For some women a BAD boyfriend is better than NO boyfriend. With this case, it's probably not abuse, but a lifestyle choice. No tolerance here at WS for a killer!!
 
Does anyone have a link to information stating whether or not AS had a drug addiction problem?
 
Does anyone have a link to information stating whether or not AS had a drug addiction problem?

It's somewhat "accepted" speculation, but speculation - never confirmed based on the SK stint in rehab, the sisters comments of "I know about pot, but what else I don't know", some physical attributes - the visits to Franks house, the text that read "only SK can help me with this", the comment early on AS made about Elaina's whereabouts "maybe someone sold her for drug money" - and the reported three trips to get "smokes" in a 12 hour period.

As far as I can recall, and I have read every post on these 6 threads, there has never been any confirmation of this speculation.

Did I miss any of the other signs that were discussed early on?
 
I don't recall any confirmation o f AS's drug abuse. I will say just from what I've seen in the world that often a clean and sober person will not want to live and be intimate with an addict. So could AS be clean and sober and have two kids and want to be an addict? Sure, she could. But it's not too likely . mooo of course.
I think it's different if you are with someone and then they develop an addiction and you want to help them or hope it changes or try to get them help or stick it out for the kids. But to walk into a relationship like that...... I'm not sure. Of course she doesn't appear one who makes great choices, so it's possible.
 
It is very possible her son told her AFTER he made the deal or she read it in the search warrant.

It is also very possible her son is guilty of helping hide the body but I think responsibility is with the child's mother who failed to supply the emotional well-being any child requires.


JMO

You're right, anything is possible... and I agree!
 
So wonderful to see TJ sr and jr embracing.
Please GOD help this family mend and find their
way back to each other.

So, so , so good to see that !
 
I just turned on tv & HLN is talking about Baby Elaina.
 
No. All of my research articles, books, papers, etc are in my office, not at home. My research in undergrad, grad and post grad work was done via professional journals primarily, and I have never had any luck finding them easily accessible on the internet.
Honestly, if you are really serious about wanting the info, I could try to find a few minutes tomorrow to find things for you. If you are just needing me to prove that I know what I am talking about, then just take the post down. I have believed what a lot of sleuthers have said on here without needing proof of the basis of their knowledge, and maybe I am naive to do so? I am just trying to be helpful by adding my 2 cents when I actually know something to share. If it's not helpful, then please remove it and accept my apology.

With all due respect, it is irrelevant at this point whether or not the perpetrator of this horrific crime was a victim of child abuse. That is a point that may be used by an attorney as a mitigating factor in the sentencing phase but a jury is only asked to consider guilt.

JMO
 
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