GUILTY OH - Elaina Steinfurth, 17 months, Toledo, 2 Jun 2013 - #6

[grandmaxs6]

THANK YOU wendiesan for the above post. I just could not bring myself to watch it!

in every lie there is truth, just gotta weed the truth out from those lies...

 

[grandmaxs6]

I have been MIA this week, this case have brought out raw emotions that needed dealt with.

I read where it could take weeks for the COD. If no bone fractures, it could have been a 'soft' kill, which will be hard to determine

 

[SCHMAE]

I have been MIA this week, this case have brought out raw emotions that needed dealt with.

I read where it could take weeks for the COD. If no bone fractures, it could have been a 'soft' kill, which will be hard to determine

I think it will be ok either way Grand. IDk if they'll get a COD but they hid, lied, neglected , obstructed, at the very very least. They will get long jail sentences. It will be a disappointment if they cannot get a murder charge but I have a feeling any jury with all the circumstantial evidence will have a hard time letting them go. There will be justice !

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Welcome Zuri.

In regards to your question, its not a thing that has ever been stated IIRC. And in my exceptionally passionate opinion, IT HAS ZERO RELEVANCE.

I don't think that having suffered abuse should EVER, EVER count as a mitigating factor in harming a child. The majority of people who have suffered abuse work exceptionally hard for years and years to overcome its effects. In many respects, they become better parents and people - knowing precicesly what they desperately want to protect their own children from.

Beliefs like this ( and you're not alone, the judge gave exceptional leniency to the murderer of Kiesha Wieppart/Abrahams along the same line of thought) simply serve to undermine victims everywhere. Labels them as potential abusers. And the simple fact is the overwhelming majority will never be.

On that case, my husband and I stood at different sides - he claimed that KA had never had an opportunity to be better. And through rigorous debate, I can begin to perhaps see that - but those circumstances don't appear here. She was lovingly accepted into a different, safe, family environment for over 5 years before she walked away.


Im getting a bit off topic. Just my own humble, WAAAY to emotionally charged opinion.

And I do genuinely welcome you. Please don't take this as a personal attack. The more people we have here, standing strong for Elaina, the better.

I find this post filled with such honesty and truth. Thank you for standing up for the vast majority of abuse survivors that never has nor never will abuse anyone. Millions of abuse survivors never harm anyone including their own children. A lot of them are very meek, passive, mild mannered, and very loving.

Of course the statistical odds will have some criminals who had suffered abuse at some time or another. So what? Some will come from very affluent backgrounds too and have no abuse history even though they kill their children. All it means is there are all types from all backgrounds who commit the same kind of criminal act.

ITA! Even if abuse was in her history that should never be an excuse for what she most likely has done to her own precious child. Abuse doesn't turn someone into a killer. Using abuse is a copout excuse used when trying to run from criminal responsibility. I see that excuse being used when it is a mom but I never see it used when a dad kills his children.

In fact if she was a victim of prior abuse that makes her actions all the more reprehensible and unforgiving. She would know the pain and suffering abuse causes yet would be guilty of wanting her innocent child to go through it too. No decent loving mother does that.

Often times parents who have been abused in the past go on to be very good parents but may be very overprotective of their child or children...not neglectful and underprotective. They do everything humanly possible to make sure their child does not experience what they have had to experience.

Thank you again for your post.

 

[krig101]

I have been MIA this week, this case have brought out raw emotions that needed dealt with.

I read where it could take weeks for the COD. If no bone fractures, it could have been a 'soft' kill, which will be hard to determine

Big HUGS to you!!!!!

Since Elaina has been found there have been so many times that It has been difficult to log on. I just do not to hear any more bad news about sweet baby.

We usually take a day trip to the Toledo Zoo every year and I just could not do it this year knowing AS and SK are nearby. I would be in tears half the time. My husband would understand but my boys would not. Although I would love to give Ferret and family a huge hug! I just can't imagine how hard it must be for them..........always in my prayers!

The truth will come out eventually, and I have a feeling that it will be sooner than later.

 

[krig101]

Did she know it though? Just because her son knew doesn't mean she did. She's cold alright, but I haven't seen anything to say she knew the baby was there.

It is so hard to say but I think that she knew something. One would think that they would search their own garage on a regular basis even if Elaina was not in there before just in case she was placed there at a later time (which I think she was). IMO they either knew or were really that naive. This is one of the things that disturbs me the most about this case. She was in the garage as everyone in that house went about their daily business......

If they did not know I wonder if JK and family would have eventually looked.....

 

[HauntsForHope]

Who was the guy sleeping on the couch when they left the baby alone to go to the store? Was he sleeping when they left? was he awake when they returned? Did he know they left the child with him?

 

[HauntsForHope]

If the mother asked asked SK about the childs injuries and he said, 'she'll be fine'. Then she obviously KNEW and likely found the child dead afterward. They put her body in a box, drew a heart on it and he took it out to the garage to hide it way above all the junk piled in there. Mother had to make excuses to the childs father, til she couldnt anymore and started the charade of the missing baby.

 

[jordynsmommy529]

I must have missed them saying there was a heart drew on the box. I don't understand why? If you love someone you don't put them in a box too rot in you garage for 3 months.

 

[krig101]

Who was the guy sleeping on the couch when they left the baby alone to go to the store? Was he sleeping when they left? was he awake when they returned? Did he know they left the child with him?

I remember reading that is was a friend. That is if this really happened, may have been made up as an alibi.

 

[wendiesan]

It is so hard to say but I think that she knew something. One would think that they would search their own garage on a regular basis even if Elaina was not in there before just in case she was placed there at a later time (which I think she was). IMO they either knew or were really that naive. This is one of the things that disturbs me the most about this case. She was in the garage as everyone in that house went about their daily business......

If they did not know I wonder if JK and family would have eventually looked.....

I so agree with you. In the June 18th interview, right after asking how SK is feeling, Chris Delcamp asks JK: "Why don’t you walk us through exactly what happened uh and kinda sum it up. You didn’t walk out the back with the baby in your arms didya? Or what happened?

JK: No. When they had uh called me in and Angela was cryin’ that her baby was gone, uh, they were lookin’ around the bedroom. And then Steven and I, both of us, went runnin’ out the back door because I have a pool out there. And I was just afraid by some chance that maybe she had gotten out the back door into the pool, a parent’s worst nightmare. And um we had looked in the pool. Looked in the garage. And that’s when I had told Steven to go down the alley...."

Of course she looked in the garage. Or, at least, she claims to have looked in the garage--interesting, IMHO, that there are no pronouns with that statement--not a we, or a he, or even an I. If she's claiming it, then, JMO, JK knows other people would expect her to have done the obvious thing and checked. But it's an incomplete thought. Did "they" look in the garage for a box in which to put Elaina? Did "they" look in the garage for a tarp to cover it? Did "they" look for a space and decide it was too risky when TJ just wouldn't go away without his baby? Did "they" look, or did "she" look, or "he" look while the other one looked away?

Again, JMO, but it is not reasonable to believe that with LE searching her home "a total of four, four or five times", that JK would not have been on the alert as to what was being kept in any of the buildings to which she was connected either by ownership or relationship with the owners. After watching that interview raw footage, and re-reading the transcript, I don't think there is a naive bone in JK's body. The raw footage of the chaos erupting while LE removed Elaina's remains from the garage showed JK sitting on her porch. A shrewd woman weighing her options, planning her next move.

 

[TxLady2]

I can't stand the idea of reduced charges either. Don't get me wrong I'm thankful SK told but a beautiful little girl named Elaina, that was loved by her daddy and his family passed away. He knew where she was. He knew as he sat there day in and day out while the Steinfurth family and many more tried to find her, longed for her, needed to know she was okay and cried many tears for her. Yet he sat there as long as he was free. As did AS even as she sat in her cell biding her time until she thought they would set her free.
I try not to hate people. Try really hard on some but I'm so close to hatred again I can feel the wind blowing it on my face. I don't want it because it does no good for me or anyone else, but my gosh this was a beautiful, loved little girl that had at least one side of her family that adored her, yet this is what was given to her. I hope they both have a conscience and that every minute of every day it haunts them for the rest of their life.
As for LE in this town I can say that for me usually having such great respect for LE, I have none for these jokers. Who doesn't call the father and let him know but lets the news crew do that? Who lets someone like SK go walking around for so long after Elaina's disappearance even though he was in that house, he had warrants for other things they could pick him up on and press him with. I wish and pray for you to get rid of these guys and find new and better leadership in this community. If you can't turn to or trust your LE to do the right thing who in the world can you trust?
Now I'm impatiently waiting for JK and RS along with Mike (wasn't that his name? the one that went out the back door with SK when they said the baby disappeared) to be charged. I truly believe they're all in on it. Every rotten one of them.
As for AS. I'm even more angry. She gave birth to this child. She was chosen to Mother this child, yet she did this and turned her back on the child even after death. How freaking cold and evil can she get?
I will never understand any of this except it's evil. No matter what my child does I will love them, but I will not lie for them, nor stand by and watch them lie while they put another family through emotional torture. Shame on them all.
RIP beautiful Elaina. I will never forget you and how you touched not only my heart but the hearts of thousands who never got to be blessed with your presence.
To ferretmommy, cherubcollector, and all of your family and friends~When you feel the wind blow on your cheeks it will be your beautiful angel Elaina giving you kisses. Hugs and condolences to all of you that loved her so.

ETA I want new and stronger charges on AS and SK and I want it yesterday!!

MOO

No offense intended but.... LE can't hold a person in jail without sufficient charges to keep them. It's up to the DA to bring these charges, it's not LE's decision to make. They have to go by the book, and if they don't have the evidence to prove their case, they can't charge him with anything else.


I feel for the family, too, but justice comes in its own time in its own way. We can't rush it, and we can't put the blame on the very people who have to make sure it's done right. If someone is charged with murder, remember.. the DA only gets one shot at this, it has to be done right.

 

[Breazy]

What child of Elaina's age is sad and depressed????

I know, right!

 

[Breazy]

Did she know it though? Just because her son knew doesn't mean she did. She's cold alright, but I haven't seen anything to say she knew the baby was there.

IMO, she knew alright! It was even reported that she knew a deal had been made with her son to recover the remains. How could she know he was making a deal, giving up Elaina's whereabouts, and not know herself?

 

[blefuscu]

IMO, she knew alright! It was even reported that she knew a deal had been made with her son to recover the remains. How could she know he was making a deal, giving up Elaina's whereabouts, and not know herself?

I'm not saying she didn't know. Just we can't assume she did. She definitely comes over as cold and uncaring. Look at Willow Long's grandma, who is bereft. I know JK wasn't a grandparent but she should have cared for Elaina. Why would someone not look after a baby, especially if they thought the mother wasn't, as she testified to in the interview.

She may be in massively with SK and AS, but she might not.

 

[Zuri]

Welcome Zuri.

In regards to your question, its not a thing that has ever been stated IIRC. And in my exceptionally passionate opinion, IT HAS ZERO RELEVANCE.

I don't think that having suffered abuse should EVER, EVER count as a mitigating factor in harming a child. The majority of people who have suffered abuse work exceptionally hard for years and years to overcome its effects. In many respects, they become better parents and people - knowing precicesly what they desperately want to protect their own children from.

Beliefs like this ( and you're not alone, the judge gave exceptional leniency to the murderer of Kiesha Wieppart/Abrahams along the same line of thought) simply serve to undermine victims everywhere. Labels them as potential abusers. And the simple fact is the overwhelming majority will never be.

On that case, my husband and I stood at different sides - he claimed that KA had never had an opportunity to be better. And through rigorous debate, I can begin to perhaps see that - but those circumstances don't appear here. She was lovingly accepted into a different, safe, family environment for over 5 years before she walked away.


Im getting a bit off topic. Just my own humble, WAAAY to emotionally charged opinion.

And I do genuinely welcome you. Please don't take this as a personal attack. The more people we have here, standing strong for Elaina, the better.

Please know I meant no disrespect. I was asking because I found the actions and words of her stepfather rather strange. I have ZERO tolerance for anyone who abuses another human being or animal. I was not implying that if she had been abused, that it was any form of justification for her actions or inactions. I apologize if I have inadvertently hurt anyone here. That was not my intention at all. I am horrified by this case and I hope justice is swift and just to all involved in this baby's death. :seeya:

 

[floridamomma]

I'm not saying she didn't know. Just we can't assume she did. She definitely comes over as cold and uncaring. Look at Willow Long's grandma, who is bereft. I know JK wasn't a grandparent but she should have cared for Elaina. Why would someone not look after a baby, especially if they thought the mother wasn't, as she testified to in the interview.

She may be in massively with SK and AS, but she might not.

I think she is- doesn't SK have a kid? And there were other kids removed from the home due to the filth that were her grands, IIRC...

 

[icu nurse]

Please know I meant no disrespect. I was asking because I found the actions and words of her stepfather rather strange. I have ZERO tolerance for anyone who abuses another human being or animal. I was not implying that if she had been abused, that it was any form of justification for her actions or inactions. I apologize if I have inadvertently hurt anyone here. That was not my intention at all. I am horrified by this case and I hope justice is swift and just to all involved in this baby's death. :seeya:

BBM. Very interesting.

I think we're all perplexed by RS. Hostile, aggressive towards TJ and SK, always claiming to know more than is let on but never doing a single thing to shed light in the case. He's got some kind of game going - and the real question is whether its more around trying to optimise the situation to his own advantage - cash in on the 15 seconds of fame, or something more sinister.


I really really wasn't meaning to jump down your throat at all. Welcome again.

 

[SCHMAE]

I so agree with you. In the June 18th interview, right after asking how SK is feeling, Chris Delcamp asks JK: "Why don’t you walk us through exactly what happened uh and kinda sum it up. You didn’t walk out the back with the baby in your arms didya? Or what happened?

JK: No. When they had uh called me in and Angela was cryin’ that her baby was gone, uh, they were lookin’ around the bedroom. And then Steven and I, both of us, went runnin’ out the back door because I have a pool out there. And I was just afraid by some chance that maybe she had gotten out the back door into the pool, a parent’s worst nightmare. And um we had looked in the pool. Looked in the garage. And that’s when I had told Steven to go down the alley...."

Of course she looked in the garage. Or, at least, she claims to have looked in the garage--interesting, IMHO, that there are no pronouns with that statement--not a we, or a he, or even an I. If she's claiming it, then, JMO, JK knows other people would expect her to have done the obvious thing and checked. But it's an incomplete thought. Did "they" look in the garage for a box in which to put Elaina? Did "they" look in the garage for a tarp to cover it? Did "they" look for a space and decide it was too risky when TJ just wouldn't go away without his baby? Did "they" look, or did "she" look, or "he" look while the other one looked away?

Again, JMO, but it is not reasonable to believe that with LE searching her home "a total of four, four or five times", that JK would not have been on the alert as to what was being kept in any of the buildings to which she was connected either by ownership or relationship with the owners. After watching that interview raw footage, and re-reading the transcript, I don't think there is a naive bone in JK's body. The raw footage of the chaos erupting while LE removed Elaina's remains from the garage showed JK sitting on her porch. A shrewd woman weighing her options, planning her next move.

BIUBM,,,,,, is this a parent's worst nightmare? That is a curious thing to say given that the pool was empty but for a few inches of mud and silt IIRC ?
I mean yes a baby getting near a pool is a nightmare, but it's odd to say in a situation where the child is missing and possibly at the time that statement was made, someone or more than someONE already knew Elaina's fate and falling into the pool and accidentally drowning, while horrible, does not seem as horrible as what actually happened.

 

[lonetraveler]

Big HUGS to you!!!!!

Since Elaina has been found there have been so many times that It has been difficult to log on. I just do not to hear any more bad news about sweet baby.

We usually take a day trip to the Toledo Zoo every year and I just could not do it this year knowing AS and SK are nearby. I would be in tears half the time. My husband would understand but my boys would not. Although I would love to give Ferret and family a huge hug! I just can't imagine how hard it must be for them..........always in my prayers!

The truth will come out eventually, and I have a feeling that it will be sooner than later.

Oh Krig101, I feel so bad for you. I have been following child cases for many years and know exactly how you feel. There are cases where I have to stand down and leave for a while in order to get my bearings. Don't let any case interfere with your personal life and especially your boys lives, back away. Some of these cases can break your heart and stay and haunt you. It is so hard not to let them enter your heart and start affecting your very life. Don't let this happen to you. Just trying to give some very heartfelt advice.