OH OH - Katelyn Markham, 22, Fairfield, 14 August 2011 - #3

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I'm deeply moved every time I see video of the searchers out there looking for KM.

Here in the face of what is, regardless of what has actually caused KM's disappearance, a hugely destructive act (whether someone harmed KM or she has chosen to disappear and put many through much agony), we have all these good people responding with acts of care, concern, kindness...

One woman on FB mentioned that, although she is walking impaired, she will be at all the searches doing anything she can to help, including riding a horse! This woman cannot walk, yet here she is, saying I'll be there, look for my red scooter. That brings tears to my eyes.

Looking at the video footage of the searchers out there in the heat and the rain, crawling and climbing, getting cuts and scratches and bug bites, it is clear that for every one person who would cause something terrible like this disappearance to happen, there are many, many wonderful people who will give everything they can to help try to make it right again.

Thank you, thank you, thank you to all those who are out searching. You are truly wonderful.
 
I'm sorry to say that if Katelyn was the victim of a crime, as seems increasingly obvious, I don't think she will be found nearby. She probably would have been found by now if she was killed and disposed of locally. Without ping info, I don't know how LE can have any idea which way to go to search, once the logical places have been completed.
 
I have seen this video many times, and I still don't believe that JC has anything to do with her being missing! I almost always look to the family in all missing case's, however I find JC to be honest but different then most people would behave! Some people laugh or smile out of nervousness, the emotion is the same as crying! If JC has done anything to her, I will scream and probably never believe another loved one in a missing persons case! MHO

I agree. I don't believe he is involved. I guess that video of him almost smiling caught me off guard when I saw it, but as you pointed out, people react differently to situations. At this point it almost seems like she walked outside and fell down an overgrown forgotten well. No evidence, not a thing saw or heard, nothing.
 
I agree. I don't believe he is involved. I guess that video of him almost smiling caught me off guard when I saw it, but as you pointed out, people react differently to situations. At this point it almost seems like she walked outside and fell down an overgrown forgotten well. No evidence, not a thing saw or heard, nothing.

But then her phone being turned off so soon after sending a text is too coincidental to me...hard to believe it just happened to go dead just then. If she had taken a fall, seems as though her phone should have stayed on for a while. Not to mention, she should have been found, if dogs, etc. have been used...
 
But then her phone being turned off so soon after sending a text is too coincidental to me...hard to believe it just happened to go dead just then. If she had taken a fall, seems as though her phone should have stayed on for a while. Not to mention, she should have been found, if dogs, etc. have been used...

I agree. Highly coincidental! If we assume she was abducted (car, purse, keys left behind suggests it) then a possible scenario is the abductor not realizing she has her phone on her, until he/she hears or sees it after the message is sent. My phone lights up and makes a noise when a pic message is sent. At that point the phone is grabbed, then turned off, broken, battery removed, or whatever. Unlikely it was thrown out a window, as the phone would have probably been found by now. I'm thinking up possible scenarios... hope this message makes sense.
 
I agree. Highly coincidental! If we assume she was abducted (car, purse, keys left behind suggests it) then a possible scenario is the abductor not realizing she has her phone on her, until he/she hears or sees it after the message is sent. My phone lights up and makes a noise when a pic message is sent. At that point the phone is grabbed, then turned off, broken, battery removed, or whatever. Unlikely it was thrown out a window, as the phone would have probably been found by now. I'm thinking up possible scenarios... hope this message makes sense.

you msg makes sense to me. Your scenario is exactly what appears to have happened to Katelyn.

stranger abduction can be the hardest to solve - with the criminal laughing their arse off if/when an innocent person is suspected (or worse) by LE.
 
But if she's really upstairs in her bedroom taking a picture of something in the room, would an intruder turn off her phone as the first thing he does? Why? Wouldn't he want to secure her first so she can't scream or get away?

Or do y'all think she took the picture earlier and was just sending it then?
 
Back to the reflections :)

I think that little head that looks like JC might really be JC, but I think he was standing farther away than you would to take a picture with a cellphone. I think there is either a different photographer there, or a timer was set and the face person (JC?) is standing far back from the actual camera.
 
I agree. Highly coincidental! If we assume she was abducted (car, purse, keys left behind suggests it) then a possible scenario is the abductor not realizing she has her phone on her, until he/she hears or sees it after the message is sent. My phone lights up and makes a noise when a pic message is sent. At that point the phone is grabbed, then turned off, broken, battery removed, or whatever. Unlikely it was thrown out a window, as the phone would have probably been found by now. I'm thinking up possible scenarios... hope this message makes sense.

Hey there! to me, if she sent something while being abducted, "help", "911" or "Sos" would make more sense than sending a pic of herself to her boyfriend? idk...none of it makes sense.

Also, I am left handed and clearly see the bearded face in the photo.
 
But if she's really upstairs in her bedroom taking a picture of something in the room, would an intruder turn off her phone as the first thing he does? Why? Wouldn't he want to secure her first so she can't scream or get away?

Or do y'all think she took the picture earlier and was just sending it then?

The only reason I can think of for an intruder of unknown origin to turn the phone off is if he got his prints on it when he grabbed her, knew he would have to take it with him and wanted to make sure if someone discovered (or saw him leave with her) that he couldn't be tracked by the phone.
 
Back to the reflections :)

I think that little head that looks like JC might really be JC, but I think he was standing farther away than you would to take a picture with a cellphone. I think there is either a different photographer there, or a timer was set and the face person (JC?) is standing far back from the actual camera.


Interesting idea that he is in the background...do cell phone cameras often have timers? My cell phone is pretty low tech and has a terrible camera with no flash so I am very u familiar witn the fancier phones.

Also, several who could see the face suggested that it looked like JC with a full beard. I thought so too, but think 1) itnis very reasonable to think he wold shave before going on TV to discuss his missing fiance and more importantly 2) his "face" im the beard area actually merges with the shoulder or arm of Katelyn's black jacket, I think that could make it look like a beard but it is really just the jacket making the reflection darker in that area.

In my opinion this reflection looks so much like JC that there is almost no chance this reflection is just an anomoly of pixels and shadows, and it sounds like it isn't a screensaver reflection because cell phones don't work that way in camera mode, which makes sense. So, It is JC in thE reflection in my opinion, but I also can't imagine police wouldn't see this, too and if they did and this IS the final text message from Katelyn I don't know how the police would explain it in any other way than JC was present when the picture was taken and that
is very damning evidence....hmmm. Wish we knew if that was the picture!

I should note again, this is all my opinion, I have no LE experience other than getting a speeding ticket one time;) Just a regular gal who is a tiny bit obsessivd when I have a burning question!
 
I think it may be a digital camera. Didn't someone say that some cellphones let you upload direct from some camera card formats?

It just looks like a big digital camera to me.

I do know that I'm not considering the pic-of-a-pic as evidence that she was up in her room taking pictures after he left!

If JC really tried to set this whole picture thing up, I bet he used her digital camera. I bet she has one, being an art student. I think (just a theory) he took the memory card with him that night and then replaced it when he went to her house the first time, alone.
 
Interesting idea that he is in the background...do cell phone cameras often have timers? My cell phone is pretty low tech and has a terrible camera with no flash so I am very u familiar witn the fancier phones.

Also, several who could see the face suggested that it looked like JC with a full beard. I thought so too, but think 1) itnis very reasonable to think he wold shave before going on TV to discuss his missing fiance and more importantly 2) his "face" im the beard area actually merges with the shoulder or arm of Katelyn's black jacket, I think that could make it look like a beard but it is really just the jacket making the reflection darker in that area.

In my opinion this reflection looks so much like JC that there is almost no chance this reflection is just an anomoly of pixels and shadows, and it sounds like it isn't a screensaver reflection because cell phones don't work that way in camera mode, which makes sense. So, It is JC in thE reflection in my opinion, but I also can't imagine police wouldn't see this, too and if they did and this IS the final text message from Katelyn I don't know how the police would explain it in any other way than JC was present when the picture was taken and that
is very damning evidence....hmmm. Wish we knew if that was the picture!

I should note again, this is all my opinion, I have no LE experience other than getting a speeding ticket one time;) Just a regular gal who is a tiny bit obsessivd when I have a burning question!

Some cell phones do have timers.
 
Important: This list assumes for purposes of the compilation that the statements of the media, of law enforcement, of Katelyn Markham/John Carter's friends, family, and co-workers on Facebook, and of John Carter in his media interviews are all truthful and accurate.

Some of this info may be wholly true, some partially true, some not true at all. I don't know. This is just a compilation of what I've observed, as a follower of the case who is not privy to law enforcement information.

In some cases I've added a rumor if it seemed especially plausible to me. In an earlier version of this document on WebSleuths, I put in the part about the $100 of raffle tickets because it rang true somehow, even though a friend who was at the festival said JC wouldn't do that. A few days later JC confirmed in a TV interview that it was true. "Rumors" are not automatically false, by any means.

Putting in citations made the document long and hard to read. If anyone needs to know the source of any particular piece(s) of information, just ask.

Abbreviations should be self-evident. Additions and corrections welcome.

_________________________________________________


Background Information

-KM was 21 years old at the time of her disappearance from her home in Fairfield, Ohio. She was reported missing on Sunday, August 14, 2011.
-KM attends the Art Institute of Cincinnati, works a co-op job at the book/supply store, has an internship, and has another job at David's Bridal.
-KM does not take medication, has never been suicidal, has no known drug problems or mental health problems.
-KM had been engaged to her fiance JC for a year and they'd dated for 6 years. They were introduced by a family member who was friends with KM.
-The couple had plans to move to Colorado in late November, after KM graduated, and to marry a few years from now, after JC turned 25.
-The couple was moving to Colorado with some friends. The move to Colorado was KM's idea, according to JC, and she was excited about it.
-KM was adopted. She does not have a good relationship with her mother, or, she has a very close relationship with both her parents (family statements vs. JC interview).
-KM shares a townhouse with her adoptive father David Markham but effectively lives alone. He had nearly finished moving with his girlfriend by the time of her disappearance.
-JC lives with his mother and stepfather near KM's townhome. He is a delivery driver for Papa John's Pizza.
-KM was supposed to move in with JC and his family by the end of August, and was to live there until their move to Colorado in November.
-KM has a small dog, Murphy, who is usually closed in the bathroom when she isn't home; the dog has a bed, food, and water there.
-KM kept a spare key to her apartment hidden somewhere outside. JC had a key, and no doubt her father DM as well.

Places and Distances

-JC's home is 0.2 miles from KM's home.
-KM's home is 0.4 miles from the Sacred Heart Church (festival location).
-KM's home is 2.5 miles from the Papa John's Pizza location where JC works.
-David's Bridal at Tri-County Mall is 7 miles from KM's home and 6.5 miles from Papa John's.

Pre-Disappearance

-Their friends saw KM and JC at the Sacred Heart Church Festival on Friday night, August 12. The festival went till midnight Friday & Saturday and till 9 pm on Sunday.
-JC said the couple has gone to the festival every year since they've been dating. They didn't go Saturday night, but he persuaded KM to go Friday night though she didn't want to.
-Friends say KM was upset because JC spent $100 on raffle tickets at the festival. Other friends say they were happy and in love that night, not fighting, and that John wouldn't do that.
-JC admitted in a subsequent interview that he did spend $100 on raffle tickets, but said KM was not upset. "She thought it was a good idea. She was OK with it"
-The friend who deflected the ticket-buying incident as untrue was with JC and KM at the festival, and she and her boyfriend may have also spent the night at KM's that night (unconfirmed info as yet).

_________________________________________________


Saturday, August 13

-KM worked a shift at David's Bridal, which is open 10:00 am to 7:00 pm Saturdays. (Confirmed. Start time not known but she worked till close.)
-If KM worked the full 9 hour shift, she either used her phone to access FB during work hours or had access to a computer, because...
-KM made a comment on a friend's Facebook page at 10:42 am. This is the last known FB activity of hers I've been able to see for myself.
-A relative of JC's reported that KM posted birthday greetings on her Wall around 1 pm. I cannot verify this because the relative's FB is private.
-KM and her uncle communicated around 7:45 that evening (call, text, or email not known), about some design work he wanted to hire her for.
-JC and KM had plans to meet with his parents on Saturday to discuss the Colorado move, but they cancelled because KM was too tired.
-JC says he and KM had a totally normal night watching TV. They did not have an argument, and KM exhibited no odd moods or behavior.
-DM, KM's father, did not stay at the townhouse that night but was at his girlfriend's where he was mostly moved in already.
-Recent information indicates that a male friend of JC's was with the couple Saturday night, and departed before JC did; how long he was there and when he departed is not known.
-For three weeks this friend was never mentioned in the many interviews describing the normal, low-key Saturday night the couple had - even though plans they had which were cancelled were mentioned.
-JC says KM was tired when he left. "She was going to bed. She wasn't going out to do anything, so she would've been in her bed." (911 call)
-JC left KM's home at 12 o'clock (per his 911 call), or at 11, or between 11 and 11:30, or between 11:30 and 12:00, depending on the interview.

_________________________________________________


Sunday, August 14 (Phase I) - Paper in fire.

-JC did a lot of errands for KM, helping her out because she was so busy. He has mentioned vacuuming her floors, and doing other chores for her.
-KM had planned to burn some old bills, class schedules, bank paperwork, etc. because she didn't want to put them out in her trash.
-KM was guided in this idea by JC's mother who had recommended how long to keep various papers based on a financial magazine article.
-JC's mother said JC and KM often have friends over for fires, and not owning a shredder, they thought that was the best way to get rid of papers.
-When Nancy Grace asked why they wanted to burn the papers instead of tearing them into pieces, JC said there was too much paper to tear into pieces.
-JC said he had a "big old bag" of KM's papers (when acquired is unclear) and took them to burn in the firepit of a friend's, to whose house he was heading after he left her that Saturday night.
-KM and JC texted re: the paper-burning after he left. She texted him about the task as something she wanted him to do, and he replied that he'd take care of it, or, he texted her first and told her the task was accomplished, and/or they texted each other during the process. (confused accounts by JC)
-In some of JC's accounts of the incident, KM's response to JC's texts about the burning was, "Oh, I kinda wanted to be there for it... but that's okay."
-JC's response was that she could be there when he burned some of his papers the next night.
-KM's current paperwork, bills, etc. are still at her apartment. JC only burned her old outdated papers.
-It was raining that night in the Fairfield area beginning around 11 pm, with an actual storm coming through at 11:30. Some report it stormed after midnight as well as before. Weather records slightly vague between 12:00 and 1 am.
-IF JC is truthful, the burning process and text exchange must have occurred sometime after 12:00 and before 12:45 (reason provided below).
-A friend of the couple says KM invited him to be there when she and John did the paper-burning a day or two before her disappearance, but that it didn't sound interesting so he didn't show up. He doesn't know where it took place or who was there for it, but seems to believe it did take place.

Sunday, August 14 (Phase II) - Post ignem.

-JC joined 6 friends at one of their homes "across town" (the east side of Hamilton) sometime around midnight.
-The friend who was one of the 6 said on FB that their gathering was located "20 or 25 minutes away," presumably meaning from JC and KM's neighborhood. This is the same friend who mentioned being invited to the days-earlier paper burning.
-According to law enforcement, KM's phone's GPS and the phone itself were turned off sometime around 12:45 am Sunday. The phone has never been active since.
-According to friends and family of KM, she almost never turned her phone off, and was very attached and attentive to it.
-There are conflicting reports about whether KM's phone was turned off, and/or damaged, and/or the battery was removed, and no one seems sure whether it's possible to gain that information remotely or not.
-There are conflicting reports about whether the GPS function was manually turned off, or just shuts down automatically when the phone itself is turned off/battery removed/phone out of commission.
-It is not clear whether the regular GPS function was turned off at the same time the phone went dead, or earlier.
-JC received KM's last text at 12:52 am. It was a picture message, a photo of a photo of KM, taken by her boss at her internship.
-12:52 was the exact time JC quoted for weeks for this text. Asked the time again on the 2nd Nancy Grace show (Aug. 31), JC said, "I can't remember...12:45, 12:50-something." On September 5 his step-sister KW gave the time as 12:57.
-JC seemed to state on the Nancy Grace show (the 2nd one, Aug 31) that he left his friends and went home around 2 am.
-2 of the 6 friends posted on the FB discussion group, offended by the speculations about JC, and declared that John was with them from 12 to 3 am.
-The 3rd friend posted on FB a few days later (probably unaware of the Nancy Grace show or the posts of the first 2 friends), saying John had been with him from 12 to 4 am; same friend who mentioned the burning as if it happened another night.
-The friends said their activities that night were watching TV and talking. When asked if they had a fire, one said he didn't want to get into specifics, one did not answer, the 3rd told the story about KM inviting him to a fire in the recent past which he did not attend.
-In short, there is no indication from the friends that papers were burned, or that there was even a fire, that Saturday night/Sunday morning when John was with them.
-After leaving around 2 or 3 (?) am that night, JC went home, where he watched "a few" TV shows, then sent KM a "good morning" text before falling asleep about 4:00 am.

Sunday, August 14 (Phase III) - Worrying About Katelyn.

-JC says he got up around 4:30 pm. His "good morning" text to KM was unanswered, but he assumed KM had been running late for work and/or was busy.
-JC worked on Sunday at his job at Papa John's. According to his step-sister KW, his work shift began at 5 pm and he left around 4:30.
-David's Bridal, where KM was scheduled to work that day, opens at 12 noon on Sundays and closes at 6 pm.
-That Sunday, KM did not show up for work and did not call in, per her co-workers' posts on Facebook.
-JC said he texted KM "all day" (though starting no sooner than 4:30 unless he woke up, texted, and slept again), and he also called her.
-JC's mother told the media he did not call David's Bridal directly because employees are not allowed to get phone calls or texts at work.
-David's Bridal is a retail store open to the public and could have been visited by anyone concerned about KM's well-being.
-JC became worried enough to leave work early and check on KM "at her house" (departure time unknown). He arrived at KM's around 7 or 7:30 pm.
-When he saw her car there, he "had a feeling something was going on" / his "heart sank" / he "freaked out" / he "panicked" / he was thinking "Oh my God, she might be gone" (quotes of JC from different interviews).
-The reason he always gives for this reaction is that she and her car were supposed to be at work, so seeing the car at her home was a sign something was wrong.
-But in one interview, he said he went to her place at that time (7:00-7:30) because he expected her to be getting home from work around then.
-The above version would make sense given the 6 pm closing time of David's Bridal, plus after-closing tasks and a 15 minute drive home for KM.
-It seems JC expected two conflicting things at the time same: he expected her home from work, but he panicked when he saw her car because she and her car were supposed to be at work.

Sunday, August 14 (Phase IV) - Entry and 911 Call.

-JC rushed into KM's apartment, using his key, and did not notice whether the door was locked. Katelyn Markham was gone.
-None of her belongings were missing except her red Blackberry cellphone. Her keys and purse were there in the apartment.
-According to JC, KM doesn't ordinarily make her bed, so there was no way to tell whether she had slept in it the night before.
-There were no signs of forced entry, a struggle, or anything unusual, except that her dog was shut in her bedroom, instead of the bathroom.
-Some pencils near a window and some hats that had been on the bedposts were knocked off, but JC said the dog could have done it.
-The dog had relieved itself in the bedroom, making it evident to JC that KM had not been home for some time.
-At this point JC "freaked out" and "immediately called friends, family, police" including his mother and KM's father.
-His call to 911 was made around 8 pm. (The first Nancy Grace show displayed the time "7:58 pm" when playing audio from the call.)
-In the 911 call, JC mentioned KM's purse, so he had to have been inside. But when asked if he was at her home, he said he was heading there.
-By his own account, JC had to discover KM was missing between 7 and 7:30, find her purse/keys still there, leave her apartment, and call 911 on the way back some 30-60 minutes later. It is not known where he went.
-JC said that KM's father was with him when he went into the apartment. This must have been the second time he went in, not the first, because...
-In his 2nd Nancy Grace interview, JC said he found KM missing, then called friends/family, including KM's father. If true, DM was not at the first visit.
-In the 911 call, JC told the dispatcher he couldn't find KM "anywhere," though he had never checked with her workplace where she should have been.
-JC told the dispatcher he has been with KM for 6 years, that she's "not deceiving," and that there were some "questionable people" at the Sacred Heart festival nearby that night.
-He told the dispatcher he's "like really freaking out" because her car is at home though she should be at work "right now" - though by then it was fully 2 hours after David's Bridal closed.
-A police officer called David's Bridal saying KM was missing. This call was probably placed after business hours and was forwarded to the manager, but it did take place sometime on Sunday because a co-worker mentioned it on FB around 11:30 pm that night.
-Friends heard JC's mother paging KM over the loudspeakers at the church festival sometime Sunday (presumably between 7:30 when JC called family, and 9 pm when the event closed).

_________________________________________________


Testing, Testing... Is this thing on?

-On August 25, Nancy Grace asked JC if he had taken a polygraph and he said yes. She asked if he had passed it and he said yes.
-On August 27 in an interview with WLW radio, Fairfield's Chief of Police Mike Dickey firmly refused to confirm or deny whether JC had even taken a polygraph test, much less passed it.
-On August 31, Nancy Grace asked JC again about the polygraph. JC said he had not taken one. Asked if he was willing to take one, he said yes.
-JC's family issued a statement later explaining this discrepancy: he had taken a voice stress analysis test, but thought it was the same as a polygraph.
-The long typed statement to the media, issued by the family regarding his confusion over what test he took along with assertions of his exhaustion when he took it, never mentioned the results of the test.
-A female friend of the couple's came forward and said JC told her he thought he failed the test the police gave him, because he was nervous.
-JC now says he passed the voice stress analysis test. Or, in some interviews, he says he "believes" he passed it. His step-sister MM says that her family tells her that he passed it.
-JC's step-sister KW, when asked if JC passed, says only 2 questions were asked, and that the results of that type of test are not "pass/fail" in nature.
-?!

Miscellaneous

-The largest search in the history of Fairfield law enforcement has turned up no trace of KM.
-Texas EquuSearch, who worked in the Natalee Holloway and Caylee Anthony cases, has joined the search with hundreds of volunteers helping.
-Police say they have no leads and that everyone who knew KM is a person of interest at this point.
-Police have the last cell tower "ping" from KM's phone before it went dead, but aren't releasing the information.
-A shoe, a hoop earring, and a broken cellphone were found at a local park but family say the items are not hers. JC says KM did not wear hoop earrings.
-There are multiple photographs online and in JC's MySpace page of KM wearing hoop earrings.
-In spite of rumors that the phone found was KM's, a searcher who saw it insists it was a red and black Alcatel phone, not a red Blackberry.
-There is no evidence of foul play or a struggle in KM's home, JC's home, KM's car, or JC's car.
-The broken blinds visible at a 1st floor window of KM's townhome were damaged by her dog a while back. KM's bedroom is on the 2nd floor.
-KM's engagement ring, which she was presumably wearing, is a zigzag of nine small marquis-cut diamonds set in yellow gold.
-Except for mention of a gray tank top or shirt, it has not been reported what KM was wearing or what clothes or shoes are missing from her home.
-There has been no activity on KM's cellphone, bank account, or credit cards since she disappeared.
-In interviews, JC has sometimes spoken of KM in the past tense, and sometimes not. He was speaking of her in past tense in interviews within 2-3 days of her disappearance.
-JC has said he has a "gut feeling" that KM is all right and that she is "close."
-There is no evidence of abuse or domestic violence between JC and KM, and he has no criminal history.
-Many family and friends assert that he was absolutely devoted to her and that they were a very happy couple.
-A psychologist on Nancy Grace's TV show said JC does not fit the psychological profile of someone who would harm her.
-August 16, 2011 was Katelyn's 22nd birthday and the anniversary of her engagement. JC and friends threw a party for her in absentia.
-Though previously a fairly regular poster on FB, JC had no activity between July 27 and August 15, the day after KM was reported missing.
-JC deactivated his Facebook in early September.
-Some friends have said KC had a stalker, someone who was "obsessed" with her, but JC has said more than once it's not true.
-When Nancy Grace asked why KM texted the photo of the photo instead of showing the original to JC when he was there less than an hour earlier, he replied that he didn't know, and that the photo was upstairs, implying the couple was not.
-Nancy Grace asked why JC decided to go to a friend's so late the night she disappeared. He replied, "I'm 22." He is 23. His birthday was in April.
-JC said August 18 that he doesn't have a lawyer because he didn't do anything wrong. As of September 5, his step-sister KW indicated he still has no lawyer.
-JC said within hearing of multiple people on the futile September 3 search (in 99 degree weather) that they should be taking pictures of it all, so they can create a scrapbook for KM to see "when she comes home."
-JC's step-sister MM said police have asked the family to avoid Facebook, and that they will not allow them (or JC) to go on any more searches.
-Police have said they will not release any further information about this case to the public, though almost none was ever released to begin with.
-Texas EquuSearch, after several days' break, resumed their search for Katelyn Markham on Thursday September 8th.
 
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