OH - Kathryn, 54, & James Stockdale, 21, shot to death, Stark Co., 15 June 2017

[Ellmau]

It is. Maybe I'm completely wrong and both young men were armed? Some kind of shootout? Both involved?

I hope Jacob is willing to talk.

 

[ninij9]

Jmo, but the entire premise of wife swap was to make the mother's look overbearing it eccentric or incapable. These shows we're scripted, sensationalized and cartoonish. I think the manual was probably written by a staff writer for the show. There may indeed be grave disfunction in the family, but I would seriously think twice before taking that episode at face value. Wife swap is reality TV at it's worst. Fake and exploitive. Just saying.

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[FlossyMay]

Any update on his condition? My husband had a friend who tried to kill himself by placing a gun beneath his chin. The bullet ripped through his mouth and nose and he survived, but his face was shattered and it was a long time before he could talk. I wonder if this is what happened with Jacob. Though I think they said gunshot wound to the head, not face. So maybe not. Let it just be known that I have less than 0 gun knowledge.

 

[Jennifer17]

Jmo, but the entire premise of wife swap was to make the mother's look overbearing it eccentric or incapable. These shows we're scripted, sensationalized and cartoonish. I think the manual was probably written by a staff writer for the show. There may indeed be grave disfunction in the family, but I would seriously think twice before taking that episode at face value. Wife swap is reality TV at it's worst. Fake and exploitive. Just saying.

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Yes, I can go with that about the show, but why would a deeply religious family lie about their lifestyle for a trashy TV show?

 

[Ellmau]

Still in critical condition, I believe.

The family is having a memorial service for Kathy and James on Saturday.

http://www.news5cleveland.com/news/...emorial-service-for-kathy-and-james-stockdale

 

[flourish]

Yes, I can go with that about the show, but why would a deeply religious family lie about their lifestyle for a trashy TV show?

I'm not sure why a deeply religious family, or any family, would appear at all on one of those shows. As for lying, people lie for lots of reasons.... To make themselves look better, look worse (depending on their motive), to deflect...

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[Ellmau]

A neighbour heard the shootings:

He said: “It was a rapid, you know, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, then time enough to reload, and another five or six shots so I thought it was target practice.”

http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/stockdale-murder-family-band-wife-swap-reality-show/

 

[bluesneakers]

I'm not sure why a deeply religious family, or any family, would appear at all on one of those shows. As for lying, people lie for lots of reasons.... To make themselves look better, look worse (depending on their motive), to deflect...

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How much money do they get for appearing on the show?

(Internet rumours say 20k)

 

[flourish]

How much money do they get for appearing on the show?

(Internet rumours say 20k)

Ah money. Of course.

 

[Spellbound]

it definitely is not clear to me who was found at the front door, although previous articles have indicated it was Jacob.

'Like this one:

Jacob Stockdale survived. His body was found just inside the door, Maier said

http://www.cantonrep.com/news/20170616/sheriff-jacob-stockdale-shot-himself-as-deputies-arrived

I din't like to rely on TMZ for accuracy, but this is what they reported:

Jacob allegedly shot his younger brother, James, once in the head near the front door ... then unloaded on himself about 10 feet from James' body. Jacob shot himself in the face with the shotgun ... and miraculously survived.
Sources close to the case tell us Jacob was trying to communicate with officers when they arrived, but they couldn't understand him.

http://www.tmz.com/2017/06/20/wife-...ect-jacob-stockdale-shotgun-mom-brother-head/

 

[FlossyMay]

What a rip off!! Trading Spouses paid 50K per family.

 

[Ellmau]

And advertising their beliefs - a kind of evangelism, if you like.

Fneral home obituary of James:

With his ready smile, great sense of humor, and outgoing personality, James was a well-known catalyst for family fun. He enjoyed dancing, skiing, farming, fishing, hunting, and camping, displaying an innate love of nature. He easily made new friends wherever he went and leaves behind many friends and family who love him dearly.

http://www.spidellfuneralhome.com/obituaries/James-Stockdale-3/#!/Obituary

And Kathy:

Kathy’s love of learning led her to continuously seek knowledge and wisdom, freely sharing them with others. She focused on Christ and family and fully embraced her role as mother and grandmother. As the Canton area Weston A. Price Foundation chapter leader, Kathy was a champion of local sustainable agriculture, food freedom, health, and homesteading.

Kathy pursued a classical liberal arts education for her sons through homeschooling. She was a wonderful teacher committed to discerning truth and the pursuit of learning. She never shied away from a spirited discussion, encouraging the boys to engage in debate both in class and at home. While teaching certainly took place in the classroom, it permeated everything she did with her sons. Kathy passionately pursued her sons’ betterment through education not only in the standard subjects, but through her passion for their health, spiritual growth, and political and economic philosophy.

http://www.spidellfuneralhome.com/obituaries/Kathryn-Stockdale/#!/Obituary

 

[Ellmau]

it definitely is not clear to me who was found at the front door, although previous articles have indicated it was Jacob.

'Like this one:
http://www.cantonrep.com/news/20170616/sheriff-jacob-stockdale-shot-himself-as-deputies-arrived

I din't like to rely on TMZ for accuracy, but this is what they reported:

http://www.tmz.com/2017/06/20/wife-...ect-jacob-stockdale-shotgun-mom-brother-head/

If that story, and the neighbour's testimony, are both accurate, it sounds as if the multiple shots and reloading were all aimed at Kathy, making her the principal target with overkill.

 

[Tillicum]

I don't think we will ever know exactly what happened.

 

[gitana1]

I hear ya gitana, and you make some good points. OTOH, Jacob didn't just internalize feelings of helplessness and incompetence, he committed matricide and fratricide. Many of the studies I've read indicate that often when children turn violent against family members there is also a history of physical and/or sexual abuse in the home. Currently we don't have any information that Jacob was physically or sexually abused so for now I'm reluctant to ascribe his crime to a single factor. But I do agree that kids in a family can and do cope differently so I get what you're saying.

Don't get me wrong; way back when I watched the Wife Swap episode I was thoroughly disgusted by the family's so-called parenting methods. I also have deep issues with religious fundamentalism so I'm in no way trying to excuse or diminish what I consider to be abusive treatment by the parents.

I guess I'm drawing my dots in pencil for now instead of ink while I wait for more information. I don't doubt Jacob's bizarre upbringing was more harmful than helpful but was it enough to cause him to murder or was it just the tip of the iceberg?

That's certainly fair!!!!

 

[gitana1]

It must be Jacob, with James in the kitchen. There have been no suggestions of anyone else being armed.

I think James was maybe running into the house with a shotgun when he heard a shot (his mother), or was running outside the house and grabbed a shotgun as he ran? And was killed on the doorstep. Then Jacob went inside and killed himself in the kitchen when officers arrived.

Jmo, but the entire premise of wife swap was to make the mother's look overbearing it eccentric or incapable. These shows we're scripted, sensationalized and cartoonish. I think the manual was probably written by a staff writer for the show. There may indeed be grave disfunction in the family, but I would seriously think twice before taking that episode at face value. Wife swap is reality TV at it's worst. Fake and exploitive. Just saying.

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Then why did the family proudly post that fake and exploitative manual on their personal, family website? And not as satire either. She was clearly proud of it and what it represented.

 

[gitana1]

How much money do they get for appearing on the show?

(Internet rumours say 20k)

Oh I think they wanted the money, but while the other family made published statements saying their family was misrepresented by the show, the Stockdales did not. Not only did they not state that the show exaggerated their lifestyle, they also proudly posted that hideous manual for all the world to see.

I do not think the manual or the way they were portrayed was exaggerated for the show or for money.

 

[gitana1]

it definitely is not clear to me who was found at the front door, although previous articles have indicated it was Jacob.

'Like this one:
http://www.cantonrep.com/news/20170616/sheriff-jacob-stockdale-shot-himself-as-deputies-arrived

I din't like to rely on TMZ for accuracy, but this is what they reported:

http://www.tmz.com/2017/06/20/wife-...ect-jacob-stockdale-shotgun-mom-brother-head/

Why so many shots? Who was shot multiple times?

I don't think we will ever know exactly what happened.

Agreed. And if he's in critical condition, his chances don't seem to be great, so it's unlikely we would get anything from him, whether true or false: Critical: Vital signs are unstable and not within normal limits. Patient may be unconscious. Indicators are unfavorable.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2009/11/what_does_stable_condition_mean.html

 

[Spellbound]

Google cache page of Interview with parents after the Wife Swap show

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...://stockdalefamilyband.com/parent-interviews/

[h=1]INTERVIEW WITH TIM AND KATHY STOCKDALE[/h]Q: Why did you want to be on Wife Swap?
A: My husband Tim and I had no personal need to be on the Wife Swap TV show. Our sons were especially eager to try it and we, being adventurous home-school parents, couldn't deny our sons such a unique learning experience that a national TV show brings. So, in a nutshell, we did it for the kids!!
Q: What parts of the swap did you enjoy?
A: Our family really enjoyed it.
Q: What parts of the swap did you find the hardest?
A: My swap family had 4 "children" of ages 17 years and older. So relating and dealing with 5 adult minds was a big challenge!
Q: How did the kids cope with the swap?
A: Back home the guys supported one another in whatever situation arose, just like they would normally do. At least once that I know of, one of the boys respectfully confronted the Swap Mom, Laurie, on problems that he saw. That made me particularly proud.
Q: Do you relate to your family differently?
A: Being a farm, home-schooling, bluegrass band family, we enjoy a lot of common experiences, but we have to chalk the Wife Swap adventure as the grand family bonding experience for the Stockdales for which we will never be the same. We relate differently in that we have even more and deeper collective experiences where we overcame obstacles and accomplished a giant task together. No one else will understand the Wife Swap journey like we do and that is one of the things that will make our family unit different and special forever.
Q: Would you do it again?
A: Would I go through junior high school again? Would I endure childbirth again? Would I play Monopoly for a second round? Aaaaaa-No. Each one of these experiences is worthwhile and so was Wife Swap, but I accomplished what I set out to do the first time.

 

[Spellbound]

Why so many shots? Who was shot multiple times?



Agreed. And if he's in critical condition, his chances don't seem to be great, so it's unlikely we would get anything from him, whether true or false: Critical: Vital signs are unstable and not within normal limits. Patient may be unconscious. Indicators are unfavorable.
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2009/11/what_does_stable_condition_mean.html

The neighbor reported hearing many shots, but all I have seen about how many times a victim was shot is that Kathy was shot twice. So why so many shots fired? I believe it is in that same article http://www.tmz.com/2017/06/20/wife-...ect-jacob-stockdale-shotgun-mom-brother-head/