VERDICT WATCH OH - Pike Co - 8 in Rhoden Family Murdered - 4 Wagner Family Members Arrested #85

[Dudly]

No one should be doing that either. lol I go back and forth on what I think about George and the things that he has said. I think I've listened to his testimony 3 times now mulling it all over. But for myself personally, when I stand back and look at the entire picture and all the lies Jake has told and the pure evil that is him and Angela and then look at the evidence there is enough reasonable doubt that I myself could not convict him. Jake changed his story 2 or 3 times before AC accepted one. What were his first statements? Jake said on the stand that his memory isn't that great. So again just for me and me alone, I can't necessarily believe that his story is true or that what he said on that stand is true.

You say HW change his story 2 or 3 times before AC accepted one. But you don’t know what was changed. It may have been times of day or or other minor things that he corrected. It does not prove that he added GWIV to the crime to get his appeal.
All four claimed they were innocent at one time. Two admitted they were not innocent. That does not mean the other two are still innocent.

 

[Dudly]

He can get a mistrial if the jury was snickering and doing eyerolls during his testimony. That would show extreme bias and prejudice toward him by the jury. That is why I said I did not think Derring would have allowed that to go on.

JMO

Apparently Deering didn’t notice it because nothing was said when it happened.

 

[Cool Cats]

Ditto

Reading @justtrish is like what’s in my head but doesn’t quite make it to my fingers.

Yup!!!!

Yes, I have seen this same argument made a few times now. I’ve thought about it & I still disagree. I’m not saying all prosecutors are above convicting innocent people. I am not naive, I know there are bad cops, bad prosecutors and I know there are innocent people in prison. I do.

I just happen to believe AC was emotionally invested in getting as close to the truth about what happened that night as she could. Don’t get me wrong, I very much believe she & Junk (and BCI) absolutely wanted to nail all 4 of their hides to the wall but I’m sorry, I can’t see them ignoring two separate witnesses to convict an innocent man. I just can’t. And as horrible of an excuse for a human as he is, I can’t see Jake putting his brother away for life if he truly wasn’t involved. I think he would have been adamant about George, if George was innocent.

I’m not trying to change anyone’s mind, though. I am only explaining my own thought process because I really have given this one a lot of thought. I know it’s not on me but I do not want to see an innocent man go to prison.

What I very much want to see is a fair trial with justice for the victims and their families.

Great post. You are right - no they would not ignore two separate witnesses to convict an innocent man. I want the same. A fair trial with justice for the victims and their families.

 

[Pru2U]

I just know that tape will bug me til the day I die. It may have been fancy footwork, or, they may have just told him, it's now or never, we suggest... and G4 decided what to do. One thing I doubt G4 can do if convicted, Is get a plea based on his attorneys' representation. I just can't see it. Based on his charges, and the intricacies of this case, I thought they did extremely well. The judge repeatedly asked if he was pleased with his representation as well. He wasn't just being courteous to G4.

Ha! I think you will find out about the tape long before then. I saw Angenette Levy talking about it so I believe one of the reporters will scoop it for us.

I know many had strong opinions; I thought the defense was fine, but I was impressed by their ending. Everyone deserves a competent attorney who will fight for them & I believe GW got a fair trial.

 

[Pru2U]

i see this thread says “verdict watch.”

Is a verdict actually expected this week? Or if not, how long is the maximum time it can take to get a verdict? Thanks

No, it's not formally on verdict watch just yet. The prosecution & defense rested on Friday. They're off this week. Jurors come back & closing arguments start on the 28th.

 

[arielilane]

Canepa brought out the transcript of George's interview with BCI when the family was detained trying to cross the border from Canada into Montana in 2017, noting that several things he'd said then didn't match his testimony in trial. George said he didn't remember much of what he'd told agents back then.

During the interrogation, he'd told agents he went to bed the night of the murders at around 12:30 a.m., after watching a movie with his family, but during testimony while on the stand he told the jury he went to bed around 10 p.m. that night. George said he didn't remember the details of what he told BCI, but doubled down on his testimony that he'd been in bed close to 10 p.m.

Pike County murder trial: 'They should have death given to them,' George said should be fate of Rhoden killers

George — along with his mother Angela, father George "Billy" Wagner and brother Edward "Jake" Wagner — is accused of shooting and killing the Rhoden family members execution-style.

www.wcpo.com

 

[arielilane]

During the interrogation at the border, George had adamantly told agents there was no way anyone in the house could go down the stairs and leave the home without him knowing, because of the location of his bedroom.

"You actually insisted on it and said it more than 15 times to the agents at the border," said Canepa.

Yet, during trial he said he never heard them leave after claiming to be asleep around 10 p.m., she said. George again reiterated that he didn't have a clear memory of what he'd told agents at the border.

The morning after the murders, George said he'd gotten up and was surprised to find his brother already awake; George was typically the first person up in the mornings, he said. Canepa pointed out that he never told agents at the border that; he replied that they'd never asked. They'd only asked what he did that morning and he'd told them truthfully, he said.

To BCI, he'd defended his family, but during testimony he'd behaved as if he couldn't stand them, Canepa pointed out. George again said he couldn't remember the details of his interview with BCI, but emphasized he wasn't lying on the stand.

Pike County murder trial: 'They should have death given to them,' George said should be fate of Rhoden killers

George — along with his mother Angela, father George "Billy" Wagner and brother Edward "Jake" Wagner — is accused of shooting and killing the Rhoden family members execution-style.

www.wcpo.com

 

[arielilane]

Despite his described desire to leave the Wagner family home, Canepa pointed out that, in July of 2018, George spoke with his mother on the phone, telling her he wanted to buy a farm out west where he, Jake, Angela and the kids could live peacefully; the prosecution played that recorded call for the jury earlier in the trial.

George said he didn't mean the family would all live in the same house, but instead that they'd buy a large plot of land where each could have their own house, yet still remain close.

Pike County murder trial: 'They should have death given to them,' George said should be fate of Rhoden killers

George — along with his mother Angela, father George "Billy" Wagner and brother Edward "Jake" Wagner — is accused of shooting and killing the Rhoden family members execution-style.

www.wcpo.com

 

[arielilane]

Pike County murder trial: 'They should have death given to them,' George said should be fate of Rhoden killers

Canepa looped back to crimes George committed, including using a false address to buy a gun; George said the seller told him to use the address on his driver's license, which was for Bethel Hill Road, although the family had already moved to Peterson Road. He knew the home on Bethel Hill was burned intentionally and salvaged his belongings before they could be burned; Canepa pointed out that he profited from it, as someone who was able to live at Peterson Road, which was purchased with the insurance money from the Bethel Hill blaze.

In fact, Canepa said, the Peterson Road home was put in Jake and George's names; George said that was to skirt inheritance taxes, so Jake and George could have the farm after his parents had passed away without paying additional taxes.

 

[arielilane]

Throughout his life, George had owned several different SKS rifles, he told the jury.

"More than I can put a number on," he said.

But none of them were ever used to kill anyone, he said, and Jake had owned one too. Canepa asked where the SKS George had owned around the time of the murders went and he said he sold it to a friend in 2015, before the murders even happened. He hadn't told the agents that in Montana, Canepa pointed out. They hadn't asked, George replied, adding Scheiderer had only asked him about a .22 caliber Colt pistol during his talks with investigators.

"At that time I had no knowledge of an SKS being used in this, and he never asked me about any gun on that list besides a Colt .22," he said.

In fact, he was already arrested and charged with the murders by the time he learned an SKS rifle was used in the homicides, he said.

He also denied knowing that Jake had ever owned the .22 Colt pistol. Canepa expressed skepticism that his brother could own a gun for over a year without George knowing about it. She produced receipts for the purchase of the Colt and gun purchases made by George on the same day at the same gun show in Columbus, Ohio. George said he didn't remember Jake coming along to that show, only that his father was there.

Canepa repeatedly pushed him on the topic, telling him she didn't believe that he wouldn't have remembered the gun or his brother's presence.

"I'm not saying he wasn't there, I'm saying I don't remember him being there," said George.

Pike County murder trial: 'They should have death given to them,' George said should be fate of Rhoden killers

George — along with his mother Angela, father George "Billy" Wagner and brother Edward "Jake" Wagner — is accused of shooting and killing the Rhoden family members execution-style.

www.wcpo.com

 

[IType]

i see this thread says “verdict watch.”

Is a verdict actually expected this week? Or if not, how long is the maximum time it can take to get a verdict? Thanks

There will be no verdict this week. Jurors will not be back in court until next Monday the 28th. Closing arguments for both sides and jury instructions have to be completed before the jury can begin deliberations. I don't know what, if anything, will be happening this week outside the presence of the jury. Jmo

 

[arielilane]

Canepa also brought up several things witnesses have testified had nothing to do with the murders, like George's tattoo and the brothers dyeing their hair — though George said he never dyed his own hair, he agreed Jake certainly had dyed his. George repeated his testimony from the day prior that he didn't choose most aspects of his tattoo, least of which the 8-ball tattoo; his tattoo artist also testified that George hadn't selected many of the details for the cover-up art.

The special prosecutor also mentioned the bug detector purchased with George's credit card and mentioned by George in a tapped phone call to his mother; George said his father had used his card to by the bug detector and two GPS trackers for Chris Sr. in 2015, though before Billy and Chris Sr. used them, George played with them a bit, he said.

He hadn't known his card was used to buy the device until his trial, he said.

"For someone who makes the majority of decisions in the house, you sure didn't know a lot," said Canepa.

"If you want to look at it that way, you can look at it that way, I just didn't know it had been bought," said George, sounding exasperated.

Pike County murder trial: 'They should have death given to them,' George said should be fate of Rhoden killers

George — along with his mother Angela, father George "Billy" Wagner and brother Edward "Jake" Wagner — is accused of shooting and killing the Rhoden family members execution-style.

www.wcpo.com

 

[arielilane]

Pike County murder trial: 'They should have death given to them,' George said should be fate of Rhoden killers

On rebuttal, Canepa asked what happens to George if he admits he helped slaughter perfectly innocent people, including two who'd been nursing infants at the time. He asked her to clarify if she meant what would happen to anyone who committed those crimes, but she simply repeated the question.

"What should happen to anybody is they should have death given to them," said George.

With no further questions to answer from either side, George stepped back down from the witness seat and walked across the court room to retake his place in the defendant's chair.

 

[Pru2U]

I'm looking for some information & need some direction. What part of the trial was it disclosed Jake changed his proffer 2-3 times?

Please & thanks!

 

[Betty P]

I just know that tape will bug me til the day I die. It may have been fancy footwork, or, they may have just told him, it's now or never, we suggest... and G4 decided what to do. One thing I doubt G4 can do if convicted, Is get a plea based on his attorneys' representation. I just can't see it. Based on his charges, and the intricacies of this case, I thought they did extremely well. The judge repeatedly asked if he was pleased with his representation as well. He wasn't just being courteous to G4.

JMO, it was just a red herring used by the defense team. The judge told them they couldn't play it in court when AC was concerned about its use to coach GW4 if he testified. Once GW4 did finally testify in court, the defense didn't bother to play the tape. Apparently, it was no longer useful to them.

 

[Betty P]

No, it's not formally on verdict watch just yet. The prosecution & defense rested on Friday. They're off this week. Jurors come back & closing arguments start on the 28th.

It's a little premature. I'm guessing it won't go to the jury until Dec 1, possibly not until Dec 5. I've heard judges don't like to send juries to deliberation on Fridays. JMO, ICBW

 

[TopHat123]

Well according to the reporter who tweeted, he was very calm when he described in gruesome detail how he killed everyone.

JMO

I’ve thought about that & perhaps Jake is behaving this way is, at least partially, because of the meds he’s on now? Idk

 

[RAISINISBACK]

Apparently Deering didn’t notice it because nothing was said when it happened.

Apparently it didn't happen. I got my information from a tweet to a post Patricia galloway posted.

JMO

 

[TopHat123]

“She was like a little sister to me”
“He was my best friend”
“I loved her”
With friends & relatives like that…
Reminds me of this quote from Perry Smith, one of the killers in Truman Capote’s “In Cold Blood”-
“I thought that Mr. Clutter was a very nice gentleman. I thought so right up to the moment that I cut his throat.”
It’s a mindset that I’m very glad I don’t understand.

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Maybe some of this debacle lay at BCI Trout's feet as well?
BCI supervisor connected to 2016 Pike County murder investigation suspended
Two local attorneys are calling the Pike County mass murder case into question now that a second high-ranking law enforcement officer connected to the case has been suspended.

Michael Trout was widely called the state's lead investigator into the eight Rhoden/Gilley family murders in 2016.

But the Bureau of Criminal Investigations supervisor is off the case - suspended and demoted - after an investigation into how he managed the unit tasked with closing the case.

I used to sign off for the night "I'm out like trout"